Australian Dual Nationals 🇦🇺🏳️

[Keeper66]

The last two WCQ squads there were posters asking for Segecic in the squad on his AL form. It's still difficult to tie him because it needs to be 3 caps for those 4 games.

Yep, the last two WCQ squads were in March and June 2025. Not March 2024.

 

[Alex M]

I'm not sure on the exact details of the paperwork route, but this would suggest neither nation can do it as he played for both underage. But there are still people who can play under age for two nations. It seems to be cases such as Pavlesic, maybe because it was just a grandparent connection? It does seem to be a gap that is being exploited in certain cases.

I was rereading the FIFA regs on this and found that there are circumstances where a player can apply to switch back. They can only do this if they haven't taken the field for their new nation in any international match. I don't believe on my reading the regs that you can play for two nations at youth level in official competition ie FIFA or Confederation Championships but are free to play unofficial matches.

 

[Cunningstunt]

Segecic previously told ESPN: “I played for the [Croatian] U17s; it could be a possibility. It's just whatever opportunity arises. If the Aussies aren't going to give me the chance, and I have an opportunity to play first-team international football, no kid can say no to that”

We've lost him I reckon. He'll keep hitting the straps and Croatia will call him up. The way he refers to ' the Aussies' tells me he looks towards The FA as 'them'.

How accurate this quote is I don't know.

It looks like there was some type of call up but no actual matches played with the under 15s.

This is apparently the scenario


So guys like Triantis, Segacic and Pavlesic all had provisional ties to Australia. Hence the need to submit paperwork, which then ties them permanently.


It seems one competitive match is all that is required once someone turns 21.

I don't know if this provisional allegiance thing is better or worse for us. It does seem like bigger nations can swoop in for someone at an older age, when it is more certain they are going to 'make it', and pinch them (eg Triantis).

It also means Antonio Arena would need to file the paperwork to play for us again (even at youth level) as he has only played competitive youth matches for Italy (he played for us in a Friendly).


Sorry if people already know this stuff, just trying to get my head around it. What a shit show from FIFA.

 

[Cunningstunt]

Yep, the last two WCQ squads were in March and June 2025. Not March 2024.

So I believe Segacic turned 21 on 1st June this year. That means if he was capped in the June window he would be locked to us. If he were capped in the March window, he could still have switched.

So he needed to play against either Saudi or Japan.

 

[Quicky]

Yep, the last two WCQ squads were in March and June 2025. Not March 2024.

I know. That's in the period since March 2024, so opportunity to cap players, even if it requires 3 caps. I think there was merit in capping both Triantis and Segecic in that period. Triantis should have started all those games (March and June 25'). Segecic should have beem used as a late sub in at least some of them.

I guess looking at this strategically, I don't have any problems in having some of the depth in the squad be promising young players and capping them early with late subs appearances. I don't mind the Okon, Kikianis or Matthews selection in that light. The Okon one stands out only because it was so obvious that Triantis and Balard got dealt a poor hand in those squads. Some of the depth in the squads was dubious at best and I think there are strong arguments to include those players early. We need to be smarter.

 

[Cunningstunt]

I was rereading the FIFA regs on this and found that there are circumstances where a player can apply to switch back. They can only do this if they haven't taken the field for their new nation in any international match. I don't believe on my reading the regs that you can play for two nations at youth level in official competition ie FIFA or Confederation Championships but are free to play unofficial matches.

This is my reading as well (although I have relied on chatgpt).

 

[patjennings]

Not at the time we were talking about.

I was - he was by far the best defender in the ALM in the 2022-2023 season.

 

[Somebloke]

Segecic previously told ESPN: “I played for the [Croatian] U17s; it could be a possibility. It's just whatever opportunity arises. If the Aussies aren't going to give me the chance, and I have an opportunity to play first-team international football, no kid can say no to that”

We've lost him I reckon. He'll keep hitting the straps and Croatia will call him up. The way he refers to ' the Aussies' tells me he looks towards The FA as 'them'.

I remember that quote which came in the wake of his non- selection but from memory there was a more recent quote or comment in the Scottish press about him wanting to go the World Cup with Australia.

Additionally Ballard’s recent comments where he said that Poppa had given him helpful advice on how he could improve his game and get into the Roos seems to have been missed. Ballard said he was working on integrating that advice.

just some stuff I am trying to take hope in

 

[Cunningstunt]

I know. That's in the period since March 2024, so opportunity to cap players, even if it requires 3 caps. I think there was merit in capping both Triantis and Segecic in that period. Triantis should have started all those games (March and June 25'). Segecic should have beem used as a late sub in at least some of them.

I guess looking at this strategically, I don't have any problems in having some of the depth in the squad be promising young players and capping them early with late subs appearances. I don't mind the Okon, Kikianis or Matthews selection in that light. The Okon one stands out only because it was so obvious that Triantis and Balard got dealt a poor hand in those squads. Some of the depth in the squads was dubious at best and I think there are strong arguments to include those players early. We need to be smarter.

I think Triantis just needed to get off the bench in March when he was in the squad and that would have been it.

This changes my view on it in this case. 3 caps makes it a bit of a circus if you are trying to lock people in. I don't think we can realistically do this for under 21s. But just needing one time off the bench for someone who is 22, this was a mistake. Popa should have brought him on against Indo or China. Especially as he had warranted selection.

That being said. Triantis knew a single sub appearance would lock him in and still accepted the call up. He then switched allegiance after this. If his heart was with Greece, why risk this when a substitution in injury time would lock you out? How committed would he have been to the qualifying process? I guess now it doesn't really matter.

 

[Cunningstunt]

I was - he was by far the best defender in the ALM in the 2022-2023 season.

There wasn't the same hype after that first season. He dropped off the radar when he wasn't getting game time after the move to Sunderland. He was also playing in a position that probably has the most depth of any point in our history and would have required 3 caps under Arnold. It seems more realistic in that March window.

 

[onedaywinners...]

I think Triantis just needed to get off the bench in March when he was in the squad and that would have been it.

This changes my view on it in this case. 3 caps makes it a bit of a circus if you are trying to lock people in. I don't think we can realistically do this for under 21s. But just needing one time off the bench for someone who is 22, this was a mistake. Popa should have brought him on against Indo or China. Especially as he had warranted selection.

That being said. Triantis knew a single sub appearance would lock him in and still accepted the call up. He then switched allegiance after this. If his heart was with Greece, why risk this when a substitution in injury time would lock you out? How committed would he have been to the qualifying process? I guess now it doesn't really matter.

Surely we can confidently presume that his heart was never set on Greece when considering the kid was born and bred in Aus and played for us at nearly every youth level. His decision would have been almost entirely coloured by his experience in understandably believing his dream of playing for the Socceroos was about to come true!

Any one of us would have felt like our hearts were ripped out after not getting on the pitch in front of his home crowd in Sydney - imagine how many friends and family were there on the night and the embarassing aftermath of it all?!? Yes I understand this is elite level sport and comes with the territory BUT you can quite easliy understand the ire of the Triantis camp. 'Go play for Greece! They will value you and never treat you like this!!'

Oh look another media commitment the poor bastard was asked to do in the lead up to his non-selection!

 

[onedaywinners...]

Surely we can confidently presume that his heart was never set on Greece when considering the kid was born and bred in Aus and played for us at nearly every youth level. His decision would have been almost entirely coloured by his experience in understandably believing his dream of playing for the Socceroos was about to come true!

Any one of us would have felt like our hearts were ripped out after not getting on the pitch in front of his home crowd in Sydney - imagine how many friends and family were there on the night and the embarassing aftermath of it all?!? Yes I understand this is elite level sport and comes with the territory BUT you can quite easliy understand the ire of the Triantis camp. 'Go play for Greece! They will value you and never treat you like this!!'

Oh look another media commitment the poor bastard was asked to do in the lead up to his non-selection!

Just realised that interview was after the Indo game in the lead up to China! Still doing media commitments for both ties!

 

[Frankly Speaking]

If clubs buy players with potential at 17, why shouldn't we apply the same principle for the national team? Anyone who excels at U20 national team level and is at risk of playing for another country should be expedited in preliminary rounds especially.

Instead we've capped ridiculous players like Jones, Brattan, Fornaroli and Caceres.

You have a point.

 

[Cunningstunt]

Surely we can confidently presume that his heart was never set on Greece when considering the kid was born and bred in Aus and played for us at nearly every youth level. His decision would have been almost entirely coloured by his experience in understandably believing his dream of playing for the Socceroos was about to come true!

Any one of us would have felt like our hearts were ripped out after not getting on the pitch in front of his home crowd in Sydney - imagine how many friends and family were there on the night and the embarassing aftermath of it all?!? Yes I understand this is elite level sport and comes with the territory BUT you can quite easliy understand the ire of the Triantis camp. 'Go play for Greece! They will value you and never treat you like this!!'

Oh look another media commitment the poor bastard was asked to do in the lead up to his non-selection!

I get he would have been disappointed. But he seems to have his head screwed on pretty well. He would have known, and was likely told in camp, that his time was coming. This was one small moment in a career that potentially lasts for 10+ years across multiple managers. If it was the thing that pushed him out it doesn't speak well to his commitment.

Side note, the idea that he would think there is too much ego, politics and dysfunction in the Aus setup, better go to Greek football where I will never be sidelined unfairly, seems a little naive.

 

[Cunningstunt]

You have a point.

I don't think you can do it for everyone. If you have a super talented kid maybe, but at that point he may just warrant his own selection.

Triantis was a different case because he turned 21 and just required 1 cap. All these other kids under 21 would require 3 caps, given Australia's demographics, you could easily need to do this for 5-10 guys every cohort.

Look at Matthews or Farrell or Waddingham, they only require one grandparent to have come from Ireland or Scotland and they are eligible elsewhere, we don't actually know. Do we ask every 16 - 20 year old selected for their family tree? We look at the "wog" names and assume there is dual eligibility, but it really doesn't take much for someone to appear full skippy, no other options, oh wait grandma came here on a dinghy from Wales when she was six months old and Gareth Bale just called me.

You can't cap them all.

 

[Frankly Speaking]

I get he would have been disappointed. But he seems to have his head screwed on pretty well. He would have known, and was likely told in camp, that his time was coming. This was one small moment in a career that potentially lasts for 10+ years across multiple managers. If it was the thing that pushed him out it doesn't speak well to his commitment.

Side note, the idea that he would think there is too much ego, politics and dysfunction in the Aus setup, better go to Greek football where I will never be sidelined unfairly, seems a little naive.

Agree. And I think it is highly likely now he will miss playing in the next World Cup. I think he has made the wrong decision but we shall see.

 

[onedaywinners...]

I get he would have been disappointed. But he seems to have his head screwed on pretty well. He would have known, and was likely told in camp, that his time was coming. This was one small moment in a career that potentially lasts for 10+ years across multiple managers. If it was the thing that pushed him out it doesn't speak well to his commitment.

Side note, the idea that he would think there is too much ego, politics and dysfunction in the Aus setup, better go to Greek football where I will never be sidelined unfairly, seems a little naive.

I take all your points, I just think that there is enough pieces of the puzzle here with everything that has been said about the situation to suggest to me that Popa isn't the greatest at managing these types of scenarios.

And maybe I should be more lenient on him as he's never managed international football and obvously will learn a lot along the way. My gut feel is just that Popa doesn't srike me as someone who is happy to admit fault and show some vulnerability and therefore create deeper connections with individuals. Perhaps he wants players that come already ready to run through walls for him rather than do the work to find out what makes each player tick - I'm sure he would laugh at me and say I have no idea how little time he gets with each player etc...and my response would be if you weren't up to the task then you shouldn't have taken the job Tony

Also the second youngest of 10 in a massive Greek family - we can all assume the weight of all those opinions has on the lad in his life.

 

[onedaywinners...]

Agree. And I think it is highly likely now he will miss playing in the next World Cup. I think he has made the wrong decision but we shall see.

Also agree.

 

[erogenouszone]

On this, it took Tim Cahill years and years before he got permission to play for Australia due to his ties with Samoa and representing them in a competive u15 Samoa compeition.

 

[Cunningstunt]

View attachment 2968

On this, it took Tim Cahill years and years before he got permission to play for Australia due to his ties with Samoa and representing them in a competive u15 Samoa compeition.

This was a different time, rules have changed a lot since then. That particular situation was absurd, from memory Cahill described it as a kick around game.