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P n R This could work

HappyGuus said:
Sounds just like NSW League Two 😅 Can't be relegated from it as far as I know.

I think the point is to grow the divisions then introduce relegation. So in this case Berwick would've passed the requirements on facilities and staff and accounts and merit etc. to be accepted to the next highest tier. When that tier is full, we either split divisions again to grow further or introduce relegation at that point. It took Japan 30+ years to get there.

I'm not sure this country has the resources for a national third tier. So I'd be looking at having larger top two tiers, 16-18 teams. Then have a post NPL season tournament for pro/rel with the NST. Only clubs that pass the NST criteria participate for promotion.
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Sure mate, and sorry to flog a dead horse with Berwick , its just and example. A better one is Western United. They PASSED the criteria for Aleague licensing, certainly more credentialed than South Melbourne Hellas for example (ignore the dripping sarcasm :cool: ) they even had a decent amount of success on the pitch... and then??? Squatted on a license just collecting the tiny amount of distribution on offer, not doing ANYTHING to further grow the game until they just blew away with the wind. IS THAT what pro/rel and a pyramid looks like to the saviours of modern football, a pyramid of "pro" vanilla clubs all playing the same borning 442 pass pass and backwards pass NC football? THATS what happens when there is no fear of relegation, just lazy administrators, languishing player pool and an apathetic, consumerist fanbase.

As for resources.. our clubs have grass on them and our kids wear shorts, jerseys and proper soccer boots.. 90% of the rest of the world with 4-5 divisions doesnt even get 3 meals a day yet they manage.

The Japanese said, "righto what are we gonna do over the next 100 years to make us win a world cup?" and they are doing it, we seem to be saying "Righto, a bunch of Lowys mates stumped up some cash, how do make sure they dont completely lose it?"....
 
Monoethnic Social Club said:
Sure mate, and that may very well work our for a club like Berwick. They get a cashed up sponsor, rise through the ranks, apply for and get a license to join the Aleague or the B league or whatever division then what? They just squat on that license and do nothing for the next 5-10-20 years until some arbitrary desired outcome occurs? Weve had WU fail, how many more clubs do we sacrifice just t protect someones investment?.
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Ah I understand your point now and was my initial take as well, it was coincidentally self serving.
I do think the model has merits though and it would be largely beneficial to grow the number of teams in the divisions, personally I would rather an 18 team A League than 12, same for a NSD.
Maybe it needs to be dynamic, as more teams become viable, open up an extra promotion spot or something when needed?
 
Monoethnic Social Club said:
A better one is Western United. They PASSED the criteria for Aleague licensing, certainly more credentialed than South Melbourne Hellas for example (ignore the dripping sarcasm :cool: ) they even had a decent amount of success on the pitch... and then??? Squatted on a license just collecting the tiny amount of distribution on offer,
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Totally agree, which is why we needed the NST years ago and kept expanding to 16 teams in each division to relegate WU or fold earlier. We can get to 32 teams within five years if the suits had the drive. People power is getting it there.

Monoethnic Social Club said:
Exactly right... These pro/rel "solutions" coming from Aleague affiliated folk start the conversation from the top down with a built in protection for the intial franchises first and foremost...
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Even the top English clubs couldn't be relegated from the second tier for the first 30 years, nor the third tier for the first 70 years. I think we'll beat them 😅 (at least from the A-League era onwards)
 
Encomium said:
What's funny?
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The idea that the various members agree on something.
That's not how football governance is in Australia unfortunately. Never has been and probably never will be.
All groups think they are more important than the others.
All groups have an agenda.
No two agendas are aligned.
Every group wants something but is not willing to compromise.
 
someguyjc said:
The idea that the various members agree on something.
That's not how football governance is in Australia unfortunately. Never has been and probably never will be.
All groups think they are more important than the others.
All groups have an agenda.
No two agendas are aligned.
Every group wants something but is not willing to compromise.
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pretty much this.
 
someguyjc said:
The idea that the various members agree on something.
That's not how football governance is in Australia unfortunately. Never has been and probably never will be.
All groups think they are more important than the others.
All groups have an agenda.
No two agendas are aligned.
Every group wants something but is not willing to compromise.
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I'm not in the loop, but it does seem that way.
 
yer no on the article - why once again have another model that tippy toes till further notice and for only so few.
Haven't we held back and fragmented the game long enough ?!
For another lets start at GO build it and they will sort out bit by bit.
Clean up the slate !
We are going round in circles and circles due to 2 main barriers right now.
Closed shop league - this is not helping us whatsoever incl the W side of the ledger is near on broke ! And the Feds having too much snout in the trough.
A FA CEO with some honest balls luv/direction for the game, get some smart/passionate football people in positions (surely they are around) to steer the vision/directive (fark Seek or Linkdin is handy :)) - leave the APL to manage their own shop But get the game aligned State to State - Championship/NSD/NPL down.
Whatever comp/s that need to be reset lets get moving on it before ICE freeze's over for its already there.
Ridiculous we can't have a main NPL or NSD Comp with SMH/Prestons etc with APIA/Marconi/SU/Sutho ?/Bris Lions etcetc like seriously this pitiful for 2026.
 
someguyjc said:
Forget all the P&R and league structure stuff.
The fact that we still don't have a proper domestic transfer/loans system tells us everything we need to know about how things are run in this country.
They can't even agree to something as simple and globally ubiquitous as domestic transfers.
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I agree. Although, as a small concession to the APL, they are fighting with the PFA now over finalising the bargaining agreement that would include an immediate contract extension for players on maternity or paternity leave ffs...
 
I do want P & R to happen - and the sooner the better. But I'm getting a bit jaded by the obstacles by everyone, FA, APL, state federations stuffing up Sunshine Coast, etc.

Is it just to get us all to the point where we just give up on the idea while they all protect their own little fiefdoms.
 
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Monoethnic Social Club said:
I agree. Although, as a small concession to the APL, they are fighting with the PFA now over finalising the bargaining agreement that would include an immediate contract extension for players on maternity or paternity leave ffs...
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That's the point though. There is always something preventing something else from happening. If it wasn't this it would something else. At this moment in time, the CBA stuff is an issue. What about 3 years ago? What about 10 years ago? There is always a roadblock.
 
someguyjc said:
That's the point though. There is always something preventing something else from happening. If it wasn't this it would something else. At this moment in time, the CBA stuff is an issue. What about 3 years ago? What about 10 years ago? There is always a roadblock.
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patjennings said:
I do want P & R to happen - and the sooner the better. But I'm getting a bit jaded by the obstacles by everyone, FA, APL, state federations stuffing up Sunshine Coast, etc.

Is it just to get us all to the point where we just give up on the idea while they all protect their own little fiefdoms.
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The reality is that, outside of a few rusted on football fanatics, the average Joe Blow sports fan in Australia doesn't really care that much about their club, its just an excuse to participate in a hobby by finding something common to align to with others. Its the same in AFL and NRL and even more obvious every 4 years during the world cup....

We just dont have the club culture that 90% of the world does. Sport is a recreation here, an entertainment its NOT life or death... Whether that is because of socio-economics, lack of a commonality of ethnicity, a culture that frowns on individuality but at the same time is scared of overt communal experience take your pick there are heaps of reasons.

Everyone was up in arms when Danny Train wreck admitted the Aleague as a entertainment sports product here... but he was right. We have a thousand times more in common with the US consumer culture than anything we left behind in Europe or Africa or Asia decades ago.
 
I'm not so sure, the FA has stifled the culture here, trying to convert the unconverted.
 
here here fellas last few posts !
Well its about time many of us need to start bitching back to the FA and the Feds.
I know some will say what a waste of time - but if they don't start seeing angst from supporters it just stays the same - plodding along getting no where.
Football has been like a fleet of ships going their own journey here.
The main culprit right now is the Captain/FA.
All they are concerned with right now is the financial recovery after 2 loss's on the bounce and propping up a weak APL that has NO care about the game but their own pockets.
The Feds the same, own agendas and power against who they are responsible to the FA.
Jaded isn't the right description patj, sic of it more than anything.
 
Encomium said:
I'm not so sure, the FA has stifled the culture here, trying to convert the unconverted.
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And before that Soccer Australia was trying to convert the non-effniks.. Its always the same A tiny share of the population (both new football and old soccer) worship their clubs, the lions share of population wants to tik tok about Lamine Yamal and explain how its called "football" not "Soccer"...
 
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