Past Socceroos Chat

[LFC]

good points ashton........
I think Grazor forgets or didn't know re Dukes/HK < even more UK clubs hated giving clearance to their imports back those days - I used to pray HK could get back in the days.
Depending the club some played hard ball on the player/manager - threaten spots/back in ressies etc
Imagine what was on their minds always when playing for the Roos - worse if they got injured reporting back.
Also we also need to accept some players just don't bring their club form to NT - something just doesn't click no matter the opponent easier oceania or whoever.
Dukes due to our level of ability back those days had to play mid pitch alot to recieve ball with his back to goal many times laying off for runners hence his low strike avg that stats people stand behind he was a failure say to Duke - back on 442 this came up sometimes, peeved me off.
As Club players though they are Kings as far as I'm concerned and proven (Cahill/CJ/MS also) - none of these modern day technical whimps come near them.
Now I like Irakunda - he could be anything - could he bag 4 goals in a EPL game cutting through LFC !
Thats how fecking good Dukes was.
HK's exploits no different - some of his games were epic and some goals omg.
Oh the days.

 

[LFC]

In that case, why no Vieri?

He's Italian last I recall.

 

[NicCarBel]

He's Italian last I recall.

As Johnston is English then

 

[grazorblade]

Have to disagree with the last paragraph.

Kewell's 58 caps only included ONE game against an Oceania side. (Solomons, 2004)

I meant the opposite

we didn't see the best of kewell because he didn't play enough oceania games to gel with the roos and really see his best.

his roos performances were poor compared to his club performances (been watching them on footballia)

this gets lost because poor by kewells standards still has him ahead of other players even from that era

If we ever produced players of the golden generation calibre again they would look miles better because they play together more regulalry if that makes sense

 

[grazorblade]

Dukes due to our level of ability back those days had to play mid pitch alot to recieve ball with his back to goal many times laying off for runners hence his low strike avg that stats people stand behind he was a failure say to Duke - back on 442 this came up sometimes, peeved me off.

Definitely agree with this

an average player with good aerial ability was more effective for the roos than dukes because unfortunately we lacked players that could feed him

I do suspect more regular international football could have seen him at another level. His best I thought was saved for the 2007 asian cup where he really started causing headaches

 

[Quicky]

I meant the opposite

we didn't see the best of kewell because he didn't play enough oceania games to gel with the roos and really see his best.

his roos performances were poor compared to his club performances (been watching them on footballia)

this gets lost because poor by kewells standards still has him ahead of other players even from that era

If we ever produced players of the golden generation calibre again they would look miles better because they play together more regulalry if that makes sense

I often wonder how good the Golden Generation could have been had we been match hardened through Asia. I think we had a team that could have won knock out games in WC's.

 

[grazorblade]

I often wonder how good the Golden Generation could have been had we been match hardened through Asia. I think we had a team that could have won knock out games in WC's.

we really only got a glimpse in the 3rd round of qualifiers in 2009 where they were by far our most successful in that round getting nearly 2.5 points a game. By then they had declined significantly yet still were really strong

2011 also was our best asian cup away from home, most of them in their early to mid 30s though

 

[NicCarBel]

I often wonder how good the Golden Generation could have been had we been match hardened through Asia. I think we had a team that could have won knock out games in WC's.

Could have potentially made the semis in 2002 or even won in 2006

 

[grazorblade]

Could have potentially made the semis in 2002 or even won in 2006

yeah I doubt Neill goes to ground like that against italy if he plays 10 matches a year in asia and gets used to antics

go to extra time, make the semis

 

[LFC]

As Johnston is English then

Johnston never reliquished his Aussie citizenship never even though he played some U21 games there at the time.
CV as much as I like him was always Italian.

 

[LFC]

Definitely agree with this

an average player with good aerial ability was more effective for the roos than dukes because unfortunately we lacked players that could feed him

As much as I rated some of our midfielders back then we still struggled bossing games and having heaps of possession deep in opponents halfs - hence Dukes not just about the feed but never enough near the box. This is where I think Cahill excelled better as he matured but was far more mobile than Dukes - TC let go those bangers from long range balls or pop them from range - running game polar opposites.

I do suspect more regular international football could have seen him at another level. His best I thought was saved for the 2007 asian cup where he really started causing headaches

anything done regular you end up getting to your best, just didn't happen, it was far more complicated then and no where as cushy.

 

[ashtongate]

I often wonder how good the Golden Generation could have been had we been match hardened through Asia. I think we had a team that could have won knock out games in WC's.

Most of Kewell's games were against Asian opponents.
And the likes of Germany, Uruguay, England, Netherlands.

 

[ashtongate]

Definitely agree with this

an average player with good aerial ability was more effective for the roos than dukes because unfortunately we lacked players that could feed him

I do suspect more regular international football could have seen him at another level. His best I thought was saved for the 2007 asian cup where he really started causing headaches

His game was at a high level right at the start of his international career, in 1997, when he scored World Cup qualifying goals against Iran and Uruguay.

 

[grazorblade]

His game was at a high level right at the start of his international career, in 1997, when he scored World Cup qualifying goals against Iran and Uruguay.

I agree those were key goals and he was responsible for a lot of key moments

Im just saying he would have been sig ificantly more impacful if he got the chance to play 10 meaningful games a year for the national team

A real shame was we only saw 10 minutes of him in the 2010 world cup

 

[ashtongate]

I agree those were key goals and he was responsible for a lot of key moments

Im just saying he would have been sig ificantly more impacful if he got the chance to play 10 meaningful games a year for the national team

A real shame was we only saw 10 minutes of him in the 2010 world cup

That's just how it was back then.
It's like saying Einstein would be a smarter guy if he sat for more exams!

Correcting my earlier post- Kewell's 1997 goal against Uruguay was the winner in a Confederations Cup game, not WC qualifier.

 

[Kitwally]

As Johnston is English then

Johnston played youth football for England, never senior football……..

 

[LFC]

Johnston played youth football for England, never senior football……..

he played 2 U21 games thats it.
IF he got selected for a Snr 3Lions game then that could have changed alot of things but never happened as we know.

 

[NicCarBel]

Johnston played youth football for England, never senior football……..

he played 2 U21 games thats it.
IF he got selected for a Snr 3Lions game then that could have changed alot of things but never happened as we know.

I still stand by what I said. If we are counting him, then we should be counting other dual nationals that didn't play for Australia (Vieri, Simunic, Dorigo, etc)
It's not as if he wasn't selected. He actively chose not to play for Australia.

 

[Kitwally]

I still stand by what I said. If we are counting him, then we should be counting other dual nationals that didn't play for Australia (Vieri, Simunic, Dorigo, etc)
It's not as if he wasn't selected. He actively chose not to play for Australia.

But he didn’t play for another country’s senior team. And as LFC said, in those days clubs played hardball with releasing players. And there are stories, not sure if true or not, that players sometimes paid for their own flights, that’s how broke and poorly run Soccer Australia was. Simunic and others actively turned the back on Aus and played for other national teams, completely different situation.

 

[Monoethnic Social Club]

my list would be very different depending on how I weight the ability of the player, vs their roos performance

While I cant understand how anyopne could judge a players performance for the national team over club football I do agree that this list is a red hot dumpster fire...