The Australian Championship 🇦🇺🏆

[southmelb]

Found it interesting Souths never averaged more than 8k in any given season. Maybe they just weren't as big as people are saying. Clubs like, Perth, Adelaide, Northern Spirit and Newcastle were much bigger. Considering Victory is easily averaging over 10k, and were almost at 20k at once stage, what is Victory doing that Souths didn't? Were South happy to go along as they were, or were they struggling to attract new fans?

Northern spirit were bigger for like 2 seasons, by the end of the nsl they were playing in front of 1,000 (freebies dried up), Newcastle likewise in its various forms South were bigger.

South were the biggest club until Perth came in, and remained in the top 3 until the end of the nsl.

The comparisons with Victory are silly, what Victory did was have 5 years as the lone team without any competition. South competed against Heidelberg, Knights, George Cross, Brunswick Juve etc, then Carlton.

8,000 average a few times in the nsl was massive for that era, semi pro, significantly smaller population, much more competition from rival clubs (never a stand alone vic club).

Could we have been bigger? Sure, but you look through those decades all sports crowds were lower, afl/nrl, memberships werent much a thing.

Unfortunately we dropped just as the social media age kicked in which would have done wonders for engagement.

Now of course we all know if the ffa introduced 2 A league teams in Melbourne in 2005 not a hope in hell MV are getting 20k. 10k isnt a big deal, South averaged 7k in the final nsl season and knights close to 3k...thats your 10k there already.

 

[Kitwally]

Northern spirit were bigger for like 2 seasons, by the end of the nsl they were playing in front of 1,000 (freebies dried up), Newcastle likewise in its various forms South were bigger.

South were the biggest club until Perth came in, and remained in the top 3 until the end of the nsl.

The comparisons with Victory are silly, what Victory did was have 5 years as the lone team without any competition. South competed against Heidelberg, Knights, George Cross, Brunswick Juve etc, then Carlton.

8,000 average a few times in the nsl was massive for that era, semi pro, significantly smaller population, much more competition from rival clubs (never a stand alone vic club).

Could we have been bigger? Sure, but you look through those decades all sports crowds were lower, afl/nrl, memberships werent much a thing.

Unfortunately we dropped just as the social media age kicked in which would have done wonders for engagement.

Now of course we all know if the ffa introduced 2 A league teams in Melbourne in 2005 not a hope in hell MV are getting 20k. 10k isnt a big deal, South averaged 7k in the final nsl season and knights close to 3k...thats your 10k there already.

That’s a very considered, thoughtful post there!

 

[ashtongate]

Northern spirit were bigger for like 2 seasons, by the end of the nsl they were playing in front of 1,000 (freebies dried up), Newcastle likewise in its various forms South were bigger.

South were the biggest club until Perth came in, and remained in the top 3 until the end of the nsl.

The comparisons with Victory are silly, what Victory did was have 5 years as the lone team without any competition. South competed against Heidelberg, Knights, George Cross, Brunswick Juve etc, then Carlton.

8,000 average a few times in the nsl was massive for that era, semi pro, significantly smaller population, much more competition from rival clubs (never a stand alone vic club).

Could we have been bigger? Sure, but you look through those decades all sports crowds were lower, afl/nrl, memberships werent much a thing.

Unfortunately we dropped just as the social media age kicked in which would have done wonders for engagement.

Now of course we all know if the ffa introduced 2 A league teams in Melbourne in 2005 not a hope in hell MV are getting 20k. 10k isnt a big deal, South averaged 7k in the final nsl season and knights close to 3k...thats your 10k there already.

I thought Adelaide City were the biggest club.
Three titles. Good crowds (until the last 2 or 3 seasons). Averaged 7,600 in 1977 (South were much less).
How accurate were the attendance figures.

 

[southmelb]

I thought Adelaide City were the biggest club.
Three titles. Good crowds (until the last 2 or 3 seasons). Averaged 7,600 in 1977 (South were much less).
How accurate were the attendance figures.

At least from 1990 onwards i'd say South had much bigger crowds. By the time South moved to lakeside in the mid 90s it wasnt even close between South and the other original clubs.

Crowds pre switch to summer league look poor across the board, South still had more but only cos of extra derbies.



South v Adelaide City in 1998 with over 10,000 crowd. I doubt City ever got 10k against South at hindmarsh.

 

[Sutherlandbear]

Found it interesting Souths never averaged more than 8k in any given season. Maybe they just weren't as big as people are saying. Clubs like, Perth, Adelaide, Northern Spirit and Newcastle were much bigger. Considering Victory is easily averaging over 10k, and were almost at 20k at once stage, what is Victory doing that Souths didn't? Were South happy to go along as they were, or were they struggling to attract new fans?

MVFC averaged more than 26,000 in 2008/09, in the home and away season. The season after they were over 27,000 including finals matches.

 

[southmelb]

MVFC averaged more than 26,000 in 2008/09, in the home and away season. The season after they were over 27,000 including finals matches.

And now they can barely fill a third of AAMI Park most weeks.

 

[NicCarBel]

Will have to work on the link - this link is the best I've got at the moment, as I've done it offline on the Google Earth desktop program. So.. watch this space I guess haha

@HappyGuus - does this work? If it does, I can maybe possibly do a copy/update for when clubs move/change logos/names and etc every year based off that base pyramid. This one is based off 2024 (but I have sort of retrofitted in new clubs/clubs that have joined the senior pyramids for 2025 where possible)

Google Earth

earth.google.com

 

[Sutherlandbear]

And now they can barely fill a third of AAMI Park most weeks.

Still drew an average of 12874, last season. Most Victorian teams could only dream of that figure.

 

[southmelb]

Still drew an average of 12874, last season. Most Victorian teams could only dream of that figure.

Its still less than half of what they had when they peaked, and those figures were back when they were the only team, City and Western have only marginally cannibalised them which means they've lost a lot of supporters in that period.

 

[MoorePark]

Its still less than half of what they had when they peaked, and those figures were back when they were the only team, City and Western have only marginally cannibalised them which means they've lost a lot of supporters in that period.

Interest in actual match going football has decreased since then in Australia imo.

Australian more interested in reels/videos of the matches on their phones.

 

[Sutherlandbear]

Interest in actual match going football has decreased since then in Australia imo.

Australian more interested in reels/videos of the matches on their phones.

Yet, interest in Rugby league has never been higher. The last three seasons have seen attendances skyrocket to unseen levels in this country, despite the massive rise in admission fees. It can be done.

 

[Monoethnic Social Club]

Still drew an average of 12874, last season. Most Victorian teams could only dream of that figure.

If you wanna compare apples to apples, how many did they bring to NPL matches?

 

[Sutherlandbear]

If you wanna compare apples to apples, how many did they bring to NPL matches?

You mean, their youth team? Hardly apples FFS.

 

[Monoethnic Social Club]

You mean, their youth team? Hardly apples FFS.

How so? You are happy to compare crowd figures from two different (vastly different) eras of Australian football, so why not compare two clubs in the very same current competition and measure their crowds that way?

Or are you somehwo "suprised" that more Australians would attend a football match that is marketed as no longer being "wog-ball" and actually shown on television, promoted with a degree of professionalism vastly superior to anything the poor Soccer Australia could fathom. To a population who now has access to the internet and, because of SM and a growing celebrity acceptance of football and football culture, is accepting soccer as the sport that is worth following?

 

[LFC]

it is totally moot comparing Pro league crowds to NPL semi pro.
Moot.
One has/needs the metric revenue so so much more than the other talking crowds in the first place, for lets face it crowd wise NPL has lasted with bugger all crowds due to their far less running costs.
Its silly talk really.
AL and supporters are fixated on crowd figures for thats the model - semi pro are running from the fumes of a oily rag.
All these BIG AL avg figures are not doing much in the bigger picture of its existance (good on the avg crwd numbers its needed) but having to rely mostly on its broadcast $ and youth transfers abroad plain and simple.
The bigger dick comparo is pointless the way I see it.

 

[biggiemic]

it is totally moot comparing Pro league crowds to NPL semi pro.
Moot.
One has/needs the metric revenue so so much more than the other talking crowds in the first place, for lets face it crowd wise NPL has lasted with bugger all crowds due to their far less running costs.
Its silly talk really.
AL and supporters are fixated on crowd figures for thats the model - semi pro are running from the fumes of a oily rag.
All these BIG AL avg figures are not doing much in the bigger picture of its existance (good on the avg crwd numbers its needed) but having to rely mostly on its broadcast $ and youth transfers abroad plain and simple.
The bigger dick comparo is pointless the way I see it.

Id say 80% of clubs worldwide rely on broadcast deals and transfer fees. Larger attendances potentially lead to better broadcasts deals.

The majority of clubs on this planet run at massive debts, fortunately most have owners with endless pockets who will keep the clubs afloat.

Most clubs struggled to get the 500k just for the championship, how the hell are they going to function on a full time professional basis if they can't even stump that up.

 

[biggiemic]

Yet, interest in Rugby league has never been higher. The last three seasons have seen attendances skyrocket to unseen levels in this country, despite the massive rise in admission fees. It can be done.

When teams are consistantly doing garbage year in year out, for example Jets, Brisbane, West Sydney and Perth, there is almost no incentive to attend, especially in the back part of the season. It happens in AFL and NRL as well, West Coast Eagles average 50k when winning, drops to 33k when losing, look at North Melbourne, what do they get, 15k? There is no issue with the crowds we are getting at the moment. But the past 20 years have demonstrated we can get to very decent levels, levels the NSL, or any other prior comp had never achieved. Crowds Victory, East Sydney, Adelaide get year in year out are very good, each clubs seems to have a core support of at least 5k, they question is how do we bring back the fans from the early days, and then attract new fans.

City and Western United did not cannabilize Victory support, maybe a couple thousand? But overall the club and league fucked it self.

West Sydney and Aukland have demonstrated new clubs can be set up if done right. Bringing in NPL clubs i don't will make the league stronger. Even SM only averaged no more than 7k in its hey day. But if they can afford to survive on minimal attendances financially, let them in.

 

[LFC]

Id say 80% of clubs worldwide rely on broadcast deals and transfer fees. Larger attendances potentially lead to better broadcasts deals.

The majority of clubs on this planet run at massive debts, fortunately most have owners with endless pockets who will keep the clubs afloat.

Most clubs struggled to get the 500k just for the championship, how the hell are they going to function on a full time professional basis if they can't even stump that up.

mate, we/here are not like 80% of the leagues let alone more or less - most of the leagues of your 80% the game is No1 we are not even 4th or maybe a massive distant 4th to 5th and the game has always been a orphan here.
Hence our massive struggles getting somewhere - well the APL that is being the great successful hope last 20+yrs.
Have said this before, the AL/APL and supporters are living the champayne dream on a beer budget - all the big fancy stadiums etc.
Not supporters fault mind you but no matter going on about the so called great BIG avg crowds some bang on about isn't helping the sustainability of the product.
Git it.

 

[Sutherlandbear]

How so? You are happy to compare crowd figures from two different (vastly different) eras of Australian football, so why not compare two clubs in the very same current competition and measure their crowds that way?

Or are you somehwo "suprised" that more Australians would attend a football match that is marketed as no longer being "wog-ball" and actually shown on television, promoted with a degree of professionalism vastly superior to anything the poor Soccer Australia could fathom. To a population who now has access to the internet and, because of SM and a growing celebrity acceptance of football and football culture, is accepting soccer as the sport that is worth following?

You are being even sillier than you usually are.

 

[Sutherlandbear]

mate, we/here are not like 80% of the leagues let alone more or less - most of the leagues of your 80% the game is No1 we are not even 4th or maybe a massive distant 4th to 5th and the game has always been a orphan here.
Hence our massive struggles getting somewhere - well the APL that is being the great successful hope last 20+yrs.
Have said this before, the AL/APL and supporters are living the champayne dream on a beer budget - all the big fancy stadiums etc.
Not supporters fault mind you but no matter going on about the so called great BIG avg crowds some bang on about isn't helping the sustainability of the product.
Git it.

No.