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The Australian National Football Team General Discussion*OFFICIAL*

Cunningstunt said:
Negative experience in camp could range from disappointed not to play, through to him being treated badly / lied to. I've not seen anything to indicate the latter, happy to be shown otherwise.

I don't know enough to properly analyse real time tactical adjustments in game, so will take your word for it on that point.

I've not heard of the win rate talk anywhere until now. In terms of cult following, there doesn't really exist media to be positive or negative in any serious way. I'll grant you, what little there is has been positive. Qualifies us directly for the first time since Holger and beats Saudi away and Japan. You get those results, you get the positive media. That's not a cult, that's football.
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A lot of what occurs in camp, we the public, just don't know what occurs?

Some players are better at fitting into a team unit, despite what they do at their clubs. Some are also better at following team game plans. Some are also better at combining with Aus teammates in the Socceroos, more quickly than in club scenarios than their Socceroo peers.
 
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Decentric said:
He is also learning quickly.
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He also has played practically no senior football. I for one will not be expecting anything (which also means that I don’t think he should be in a Socceroos match day squad) until he has proven himself in senior football. This is even more important from an optics perspective when you consider that he is the son of a current Socceroos assistant coach.
 
Decentric said:
I've seen you post a lot over a long time, PJ, and this post is much more passionate and emotional!

There are skill sets that players have that pro coaches can evaluate early in their career. They can be identified at an earlier stage of development. Players don't have to play a lot of senior football to be evaluated.

* Technique
First touch
Handling speed
Striking the ball
Running with the ball
1v1 attacking and defensive skills

These aforementioned facets of a player develop more slowly after the late teens.

Communication
Football conditioning
Athleticism
Game sense
Mental strength

Apart from the third, these facets of a player can develop much later.

From what I've seen of both playing at underage national team level, Okon Jr at U20 and U23s is already a superior technician to Triantis U23s.
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I acknowledge that certain players have attributes at a young age - but to be honest they have to show it a senior level. The intensity is that much greater at the senior level and then should rise again going to the NT level.

I've heard so many people going on about the next big thing whether it was Martin Lo, Kaz Patafta, Sebastian Pasquali, Liam Rose, Anthony Kalik, Anthony Caceres, Daniel Arzani or Garang Kuol - but let them prove it at senior level.

Look at Irankunda and Kuol (who I think will make it) and they both struggled with playing more than 30 minutes in a senior game at first because of the intensity.

Triantis was the form DM/CM we had. Loaned to Hibs who were struggling he became one of the best DM/CM players in the SPFL after being in my mind the best CB the year before in the ALM.

I remember Adrian Caceres showing highlight reels of his nephew Anthony years ago. Yet he was just capped. Why - because being a great junior does not prepare you to be a great senior player. Caceres at 32 had not figured out that you don't have to beat the same player three times before losing the ball before he was about 27. Brattan at 35 was just capped. Were all the previous NT managers wrong during their careers?

O'Neill, who I rate seems to be going through a bit of a form slump and Yazbek was not performing as well as Triantis. To my mid he should not only have been in the match day squads - he should have been starting.
 
Keeper66 said:
He also has played practically no senior football. I for one will not be expecting anything (which also means that I don’t think he should be in a Socceroos match day squad) until he has proven himself in senior football. This is even more important from an optics perspective when you consider that he is the son of a current Socceroos assistant coach.
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I don't think he made the actual matchday substitutes did he? So just in the 26 man squad?
 
Cunningstunt said:
I don't think he made the actual matchday substitutes did he? So just in the 26 man squad?
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Correct. And I am saying that he shouldn't be in any match day squads until he has proven himself in senior football. But some people are saying what an accomplished player he is and advocating that he be considered for Socceroo games. And to that point, he shouldn't even be in the 26 man squad until a proven senior performer, at least at some level (A League or higher). The fact that he was in the 26 man squad for the last window was not a good look given the father-son situation.
 
Keeper66 said:
Correct. And I am saying that he shouldn't be in any match day squads until he has proven himself in senior football. But some people are saying what an accomplished player he is and advocating that he be considered for Socceroo games. And to that point, he shouldn't even be in the 26 man squad until a proven senior performer, at least at some level (A League or higher). The fact that he was in the 26 man squad for the last window was not a good look given the father-son situation.
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It is the more interesting discussion point from his selection which got ignored because of the Okon Snr being a coach and the outcry about other non-selections. Given we now get 26 man squads, it allows flexibility for this type of selection. Is that something worthwhile long term for talented kids? I'm not sure at this point, but it would seem to allow for earlier integration for some of these type of guys.
 
Cunningstunt said:
It is the more interesting discussion point from his selection which got ignored because of the Okon Snr being a coach and the outcry about other non-selections. Given we now get 26 man squads, it allows flexibility for this type of selection. Is that something worthwhile long term for talented kids? I'm not sure at this point, but it would seem to allow for earlier integration for some of these type of guys.
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I wouldn't mind blooding talented young players as part of the 26 man squad. However a player who had played next to bugger-all senior football and even that at a pretty low level (Portuguese 2nd tier), is not the type of player that should be getting that integration. It should be a young player who is pretty close to making a match-day squad on his own merits.
 
Keeper66 said:
I wouldn't mind blooding talented young players as part of the 26 man squad. However a player who had played next to bugger-all senior football and even that at a pretty low level (Portuguese 2nd tier), is not the type of player that should be getting that integration. It should be a young player who is pretty close to making a match-day squad on his own merits.
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Yeah that is probably a better balance. Maybe a Kikianis type.
 
Keeper66 said:
I wouldn't mind blooding talented young players as part of the 26 man squad. However a player who had played next to bugger-all senior football and even that at a pretty low level (Portuguese 2nd tier), is not the type of player that should be getting that integration. It should be a young player who is pretty close to making a match-day squad on his own merits.
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You mean like talented players with dual nationality potential being blooded? Talk about killed 2 birds with one stone. Okon's situation has set a stupid precedent. Good luck to him this season. I hope he comes out great and we needn't worry about Triantis.
 
JS96 said:
You mean like talented players with dual nationality potential being blooded? Talk about killed 2 birds with one stone. Okon's situation has set a stupid precedent. Good luck to him this season. I hope he comes out great and we needn't worry about Triantis.
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I'm talking about a player who is not going to be part of a match-day squad, but is being blooded for experience. I'm not saying that it should be done every time, or even any time, but if it is going to be done the right player needs to be selected. And Okon was not the right type of player.

If you are talking about Triantis, then I believe he should have been selected with a definite plan to give him playing time, not just for the "experience".
 
Keeper66 said:
I'm talking about a player who is not going to be part of a match-day squad, but is being blooded for experience. I'm not saying that it should be done every time, or even any time, but if it is going to be done the right player needs to be selected. And Okon was not the right type of player.

If you are talking about Triantis, then I believe he should have been selected with a definite plan to give him playing time, not just for the "experience".
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I would see Okon and Triantis as very similar profile players, but different stages of their careers
 
Keeper66 said:
I'm talking about a player who is not going to be part of a match-day squad, but is being blooded for experience. I'm not saying that it should be done every time, or even any time, but if it is going to be done the right player needs to be selected. And Okon was not the right type of player.

If you are talking about Triantis, then I believe he should have been selected with a definite plan to give him playing time, not just for the "experience".
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Yeah exactly. I like that idea that we have a few guys who tag along. Having them also train in drills may show the coach the solution is right in front of them. Do it over a few windows for me insight. Some come in for only a few days and the mind is made up too quickly.
 
Barca4life said:
The lack of football media is a big problem for the sport, if your not holding these people accountable.

Then how do you expect to grow and improve? How did football get to this stage is anyone’s guess.
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Missed this point, its huge. Remember when we got pumped by Germany in 2010? Fozz was calling for Pim to be sacked on the spot and let the players take over.

We really don't get this sort of passion from our media anymore, Bozz was probably the last one to do it? Think it was on foxsports when we had Holger he was giving it to him about how bad we were playing.

We have gone backwards since we lost TWG.
 
jas88 said:
Missed this point, its huge. Remember when we got pumped by Germany in 2010? Fozz was calling for Pim to be sacked on the spot and let the players take over.

We really don't get this sort of passion from our media anymore, Bozz was probably the last one to do it? Think it was on foxsports when we had Holger he was giving it to him about how bad we were playing.

We have gone backwards since we lost TWG.
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It’s a big piece that missing in this current climate that’s for sure.
 
jas88 said:
Missed this point, its huge. Remember when we got pumped by Germany in 2010? Fozz was calling for Pim to be sacked on the spot and let the players take over.

We really don't get this sort of passion from our media anymore, Bozz was probably the last one to do it? Think it was on foxsports when we had Holger he was giving it to him about how bad we were playing.

We have gone backwards since we lost TWG.
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why aren't sbs as interested in football these days?
 
jas88 said:
Missed this point, its huge. Remember when we got pumped by Germany in 2010? Fozz was calling for Pim to be sacked on the spot and let the players take over.

We really don't get this sort of passion from our media anymore, Bozz was probably the last one to do it? Think it was on foxsports when we had Holger he was giving it to him about how bad we were playing.

We have gone backwards since we lost TWG.
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Massively backwards and now it's just younger blokes throthing over Yamal or some digital football carton platform with ultimate teams cards.

The short attention spans of society now mean we need some chick to present 'what a worldie' and people are more on TV for their aesthetics and charisma than actually football knowledge. The UK is so dull now. Hardly any banter, fake stiff laughter in case someone gets offended.

A lot of the older fellas invited onto the WG had their make up done but their aging and thick accents really stood out. That was beside the point. Their in-depth knowledge and way of breaking things down was second to none.
 
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