Welcome!

By registering with us, you'll be able to discuss, share and private message with other members of our community.

Sign Up Now!

The Australian National Football Team General Discussion*OFFICIAL*

onedaywinners... said:
I'll be forlorn if much of the same squad is rolled out. No one needs to be convinced of how crucial these camps are with qualification already secured.

Is there a world where we could see some form of change in system? We have only ever seen a Popovic Roos when points are everything...I don't think likely but worth a ponder.
Click to expand...
I've said elsewhere that I think these next two windows should be aimed at giving as many as possible some squad and game time. I'm sure Popovic has around 12-14 players who he considers locks for the WC squad. He should give all of these locks a window off, picking half each time. Give a few players a chance to impress in the training squad and also some decent playing time (at least 30 minutes) in one of the games. Results aren't important at this stage. It may annoy some players who assume just because they made a squad that its only onwards and upwards from there, but if they want a career as a professional footballer they need to learn how to handle setbacks.
 
Alex M said:
I've said elsewhere that I think these next two windows should be aimed at giving as many as possible some squad and game time. I'm sure Popovic has around 12-14 players who he considers locks for the WC squad. He should give all of these locks a window off, picking half each time. Give a few players a chance to impress in the training squad and also some decent playing time (at least 30 minutes) in one of the games. Results aren't important at this stage. It may annoy some players who assume just because they made a squad that its only onwards and upwards from there, but if they want a career as a professional footballer they need to learn how to handle setbacks.
Click to expand...
Since everyone was so happy with Bratten and Caceres here is a list of similarly aged players without a cap which I'm sure Popovic will consider.

Paulo Retre
Jack Clisby
Brendan Hamill
Nikola Mileusnic
Tomislav Uskok
Jack Duncan
Matt Acton
Kearyn Baccus

Of course Julie Meek or Hayden Foxe may have a 20 year old son that haven't played a senior game - they may be considered as well.
 
Irvine may have recovered by then but it's also unfortunate Miller is back already as forced changes in some areas can really open ones eyes.
 
Need to start picking guys who are ready, other top nations don't pick young guns who haven't made it yet. Sick of seeing kids like Okon Jr who have done NOTHING to get a Socceroos jersey then they don't even play its a waste of a spot that could of be given to guy who could actually be an option in the WC.

In saying that Segacic and Irankunda are ready, lets figure out how to get them in the team and make the most of their transistional abilities. We will be playing on the counter, so lets start preparing.

I don't want to see another kid from a-league picked after a half decent season, it has never ever worked out. It has always hampered their development - Kuol, Arzani

Time to get away from this thinking, this should be the epitome of our football only the very best, proven, professionals are picked.
 
jas88 said:
Need to start picking guys who are ready, other top nations don't pick young guns who haven't made it yet. Sick of seeing kids like Okon Jr who have done NOTHING to get a Socceroos jersey then they don't even play its a waste of a spot that could of be given to guy who could actually be an option in the WC.

In saying that Segacic and Irankunda are ready, lets figure out how to get them in the team and make the most of their transistional abilities. We will be playing on the counter, so lets start preparing.

I don't want to see another kid from a-league picked after a half decent season, it has never ever worked out. It has always hampered their development - Kuol, Arzani

Time to get away from this thinking, this should be the epitome of our football only the very best, proven, professionals are picked.
Click to expand...
That's the crux of the matter or me. Are they ready? Segecic certainly is and I think anyone who excels for the U20 should be introduced reasonably quickly to keep the others on notice. We've had periods of complacency in the team so adding a couple of new players now and then should keep everyone honest. One of England's issues over the years has been the notion of 'automatic starters'.
 
I don't think jas88, watched the under 20s. His opinion on Okon- Engstler might differ if he had, but I suspect not.
 
Spectator said:
I don't think jas88, watched the under 20s. His opinion on Okon- Engstler might differ if he had, but I suspect not.
Click to expand...
Decentric said:
Welcome to the forum, Spectator.

Okon Jr has an impressive skill set.
Click to expand...
It doesn't change the fact that Triantis was used for press and did not make the bench but a guy who has not played one minute of one senior game was preferred to him.

That is abysmal man management and has potential to seriously undermine the player base. The sort of 'leadership' you would expect of an U12 local coach.

Compare the protagonists between Triantis and Popovic to that of Kewell and Hiddink. Triantis was a young guy that had exhibited much but was preferred to a guy who had not played a senior game. If you do that to someone you at least owe them the courtesy of explaining your decision. Hiddink played Harry of the bench to fire him up to 'win us the game' as Arnold told the story. One is bad man management - one is good man management and true leadership.

So:-
  1. We have replaced a someone that is recognised as a good man manager with someone that is exhibiting what is showing abysmal man management traits.
  2. We have replaced someone that can adapt his tactics depending on personnel available to someone that has shown little (if any) ability to do so.
  3. We have replaced someone that has a win ratio less than his predecessor (obtained over 7 years under some of the most trying circumstances) and only marginally better than Guus (who basically played the Uruguay games a farewell and the World Cup.
All this when I suspect his predecessor would have qualified us as well and when Popa was under ZERO pressure. If we did not qualify in that round there was ample time to qualify still. If he failed to qualify in that round it was Arnold's fault.

Now we have this strangely messianic message that says he does no wrong. Popovic may turn out to be the greatest manager of the Socceroos ever. But in reality at this stage achieved less Rale, Guus, Pim, Ange and Arnie and but for an idiot at the MCG and a dodgy non offside call Terry Venables (all of which had much harder roads to qualification. When he turns out to be the greatest Socceroos manager ever I'll be happy to applaud him - but he has to do it first and this cult like following is strangely troubling.

Australians have had a supposed habit of a 'tall poppy syndrome'. I put in another way - we applaud people after they have achieved something rather that swagger around before they have.
 
patjennings said:
It doesn't change the fact that Triantis was used for press and did not make the bench but a guy who has not played one minute of one senior game was preferred to him.
Click to expand...
Who is the player you are referring to and when was he preferred over Triantis?
 
Alex M said:
Who is the player you are referring to and when was he preferred over Triantis?
Click to expand...
Yep - you are right - but Triantis was playing at a level similar or better and performing better than any of Yazbek, O'Neill, Caceres and Teague. And it really doesn't change the point about the way Triantis was treated/ignored. If Popovic gives him no feedback or explanation when he is the form DM/CM and Irvine who is out would have taken one spot why was he not at the very least on the bench and why did the manager decide not to engage with him about why.
 
Last edited:
onedaywinners... said:
For me it wasn't about the decision to not sub on Triantis in isolation that must have led to this decision - the fact that he was chosen for media commitments wearing the full kit in the lead up and so on - all this reeks of horrible communication and man management YET AGAIN from a manager that clearly has a massive ego and doesn't make an effort to connect with all the varied personality types that exist at the elite level. The best managers know who to put an arm around and who to give a bullocking to.

Maybe more of the reason Popa keeps picking players he has worked with before and knows is because it's straight up easier for him and doesn't force him to expand on his obvious shortcomings.

I don't hate the bloke...I just love Australian football way more.
Click to expand...
If Segecic chooses Croatia because of this, Popovic can fuck right off.
 
Alex M said:
Who is the player you are referring to and when was he preferred over Triantis?
Click to expand...
He is talking about Okon I believe. So it is just not correct.

  1. We have replaced a someone that is recognised as a good man manager with someone that is exhibiting what is showing abysmal man management traits.
  2. We have replaced someone that can adapt his tactics depending on personnel available to someone that has shown little (if any) ability to do so.
  3. We have replaced someone that has a win ratio less than his predecessor (obtained over 7 years under some of the most trying circumstances) and only marginally better than Guus (who basically played the Uruguay games a farewell and the World Cup.
Click to expand...
All of these things there is either little evidence for or untrue.

I doubt Popa has anything to do with who fronts up to media or press, mostly because he doesn't care for it. It would be the media manager organising. There has been no reporting on what happened in camp aside from Triantis being disappointed with how it went. If he was told he would be playing, that would be poor management. Nothing has come out saying this happened. Ballard has said he was given advice to move forward, it would make sense Triantis was given the same, but we don't know.

The tactics thing is a myth. Popa has evolved over his career. He progressed his style even at his time at WSW, and further to Glory and MV. You might not like the tactics / style, but he does evolve and adapt.

Arnold left, so had to be replaced by someone. I would say win ratio after 8 games counts for much less than qualifying directly. I think there would be very few people who would agree he was under no pressure. He wasn't going to get fired if he missed direct qualification, that doesn't equal no pressure. We were at risk of being eliminated entirely.

There are reasons to dislike things Popa has done and areas where he can improve. I don't think any of these things are it.
 
Cunningstunt said:
All of these things there is either little evidence for or untrue.

I doubt Popa has anything to do with who fronts up to media or press, mostly because he doesn't care for it. It would be the media manager organising. There has been no reporting on what happened in camp aside from Triantis being disappointed with how it went. If he was told he would be playing, that would be poor management. Nothing has come out saying this happened. Ballard has said he was given advice to move forward, it would make sense Triantis was given the same, but we don't know.

The tactics thing is a myth. Popa has evolved over his career. He progressed his style even at his time at WSW, and further to Glory and MV. You might not like the tactics / style, but he does evolve and adapt.

Arnold left, so had to be replaced by someone. I would say win ratio after 8 games counts for much less than qualifying directly. I think there would be very few people who would agree he was under no pressure. He wasn't going to get fired if he missed direct qualification, that doesn't equal no pressure. We were at risk of being eliminated entirely.

There are reasons to dislike things Popa has done and areas where he can improve. I don't think any of these things are it.
Click to expand...

The 3 things were

  1. We have replaced a someone that is recognised as a good man manager with someone that is exhibiting what is showing abysmal man management traits.
  2. We have replaced someone that can adapt his tactics depending on personnel available to someone that has shown little (if any) ability to do so.
  3. We have replaced someone that has a win ratio less than his predecessor (obtained over 7 years under some of the most trying circumstances) and only marginally better than Guus (who basically played the Uruguay games a farewell and the World Cup.
The truth

1) Triantis has said he had he had a bad experience with Popovic after his first camp when picked, used as TV fodder and then completely blanked by his manager. Why are you so willing to believe Balard but refuse to believe Triantis.

2) I can concede that Popovic has grown over 10 years - but he is not a reactive manager. He cannot adapt in the course of game and that is often because he doesn't pick a squad that can adapt.

3) The win is something that Popovic acolytes keep claiming makes him so brilliant. So the truth is

Arnold's win % ratio from 2018-2024) 64.3
Popa's win% 62.5 ratio
Guus's win% 61.5 ratio

Anyone that thought we were at risk of being eliminated entirely must be easily spooked - so I still maintain that he was under no pressure.

Finally as I have previously said what is more troubling is the messianic cult like following that is developing that only Guus has been accorded in my memory back to the early 1970s. Where are the people asking the hard questions. I do blame the poor state of Australian football media. Ange had his detractors, Arnold had his detractors, Pim and Holger as well. We now have virtually no football media and those that do commentate have Popovic as a teammate. The guy is accountable to the board but why isn't he being held accountable by the media on behalf of the fans.
 
Spectator said:
I don't think jas88, watched the under 20s. His opinion on Okon- Engstler might differ if he had, but I suspect not.
Click to expand...

And again where's it got him in turns of development? Back in the a-league at 20 without single start in a pro league in Europe. Triantis was winning awards in his league at the same time. Nestory is now starting in the CHP as is Segecic both as his age.

I'd love to see him progress and we can play some ballers around him in that lone 6 role but not under poppa lol
 
patjennings said:
The 3 things were

  1. We have replaced a someone that is recognised as a good man manager with someone that is exhibiting what is showing abysmal man management traits.
  2. We have replaced someone that can adapt his tactics depending on personnel available to someone that has shown little (if any) ability to do so.
  3. We have replaced someone that has a win ratio less than his predecessor (obtained over 7 years under some of the most trying circumstances) and only marginally better than Guus (who basically played the Uruguay games a farewell and the World Cup.
The truth

1) Triantis has said he had he had a bad experience with Popovic after his first camp when picked, used as TV fodder and then completely blanked by his manager. Why are you so willing to believe Balard but refuse to believe Triantis.

2) I can concede that Popovic has grown over 10 years - but he is not a reactive manager. He cannot adapt in the course of game and that is often because he doesn't pick a squad that can adapt.

3) The win is something that Popovic acolytes keep claiming makes him so brilliant. So the truth is

Arnold's win % ratio from 2018-2024) 64.3
Popa's win% 62.5 ratio
Guus's win% 61.5 ratio

Anyone that thought we were at risk of being eliminated entirely must be easily spooked - so I still maintain that he was under no pressure.

Finally as I have previously said what is more troubling is the messianic cult like following that is developing that only Guus has been accorded in my memory back to the early 1970s. Where are the people asking the hard questions. I do blame the poor state of Australian football media. Ange had his detractors, Arnold had his detractors, Pim and Holger as well. We now have virtually no football media and those that do commentate have Popovic as a teammate. The guy is accountable to the board but why isn't he being held accountable by the media on behalf of the fans.
Click to expand...
Negative experience in camp could range from disappointed not to play, through to him being treated badly / lied to. I've not seen anything to indicate the latter, happy to be shown otherwise.

I don't know enough to properly analyse real time tactical adjustments in game, so will take your word for it on that point.

I've not heard of the win rate talk anywhere until now. In terms of cult following, there doesn't really exist media to be positive or negative in any serious way. I'll grant you, what little there is has been positive. Qualifies us directly for the first time since Holger and beats Saudi away and Japan. You get those results, you get the positive media. That's not a cult, that's football.
 
Spectator said:
I don't think jas88, watched the under 20s. His opinion on Okon- Engstler might differ if he had, but I suspect not.
Click to expand...
The Okon with the risky trotting on the ball in build up and fumbling passes? He had the occasional good break up of play but has a lot to learn.
 
Wins and losses are so incredibly close but I guess Popovic is on the ascendency. We couldn't expect that much in 2024 and 2025 so far has been good results wise. Time to kick on.
 
patjennings said:
It doesn't change the fact that Triantis was used for press and did not make the bench but a guy who has not played one minute of one senior game was preferred to him.

That is abysmal man management and has potential to seriously undermine the player base. The sort of 'leadership' you would expect of an U12 local coach.

Compare the protagonists between Triantis and Popovic to that of Kewell and Hiddink. Triantis was a young guy that had exhibited much but was preferred to a guy who had not played a senior game. If you do that to someone you at least owe them the courtesy of explaining your decision. Hiddink played Harry of the bench to fire him up to 'win us the game' as Arnold told the story. One is bad man management - one is good man management and true leadership.

So:-
  1. We have replaced a someone that is recognised as a good man manager with someone that is exhibiting what is showing abysmal man management traits.
  2. We have replaced someone that can adapt his tactics depending on personnel available to someone that has shown little (if any) ability to do so.
  3. We have replaced someone that has a win ratio less than his predecessor (obtained over 7 years under some of the most trying circumstances) and only marginally better than Guus (who basically played the Uruguay games a farewell and the World Cup.
All this when I suspect his predecessor would have qualified us as well and when Popa was under ZERO pressure. If we did not qualify in that round there was ample time to qualify still. If he failed to qualify in that round it was Arnold's fault.

Now we have this strangely messianic message that says he does no wrong. Popovic may turn out to be the greatest manager of the Socceroos ever. But in reality at this stage achieved less Rale, Guus, Pim, Ange and Arnie and but for an idiot at the MCG and a dodgy non offside call Terry Venables (all of which had much harder roads to qualification. When he turns out to be the greatest Socceroos manager ever I'll be happy to applaud him - but he has to do it first and this cult like following is strangely troubling.

Australians have had a supposed habit of a 'tall poppy syndrome'. I put in another way - we applaud people after they have achieved something rather that swagger around before they have.
Click to expand...
I've seen you post a lot over a long time, PJ, and this post is much more passionate and emotional!

There are skill sets that players have that pro coaches can evaluate early in their career. They can be identified at an earlier stage of development. Players don't have to play a lot of senior football to be evaluated.

* Technique
First touch
Handling speed
Striking the ball
Running with the ball
1v1 attacking and defensive skills

These aforementioned facets of a player develop more slowly after the late teens.

Communication
Football conditioning
Athleticism
Game sense
Mental strength

Apart from the third, these facets of a player can develop much later.

From what I've seen of both playing at underage national team level, Okon Jr at U20 and U23s is already a superior technician to Triantis U23s.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top