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"Can you smell the fear?", do the other football codes in Australia (AFL,NRL), genuinely fear football?

Football us life said:
Well firstly you've got that "soft middle"..... people who already watch the World Cup or Champions League, follow a EPL club, or have kids playing junior football, but feel no real connection to the A-League or local game. These are the ones most open to being pulled in if the story feels authentic and local.

The next generation in the key cities — especially Melbourne, Sydney and Adelaide. Kids and teenagers who grow up around the game but currently drift toward AFL, NRL or basketball because those codes own the cultural space. If you can make supporting a local club feel natural and permanent for them, the rest follows.

You’re not trying to convert hardcore AFL tragic or rugby league diehards. You’re trying to stop football’s own potential audience from treating the local game as optional.

Johnny and Les didn’t convert people with local league highlights packages. They did it by opening the window to the wider world...

And they made the global game feel like it belonged to Australian viewers, and in the process made the local version feel less foreign.
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It could be argued all that has already been achieved to certain extents by now, if this is what you meant.

The prevalence of Eurosnobbery within 🇦🇺⚽️ circles today is the legacy of having made the global scene feel less-foreign💡
 
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BA81 said:
It could be argued all this has already been achieved to certain extents then, if this is what you meant.

The prevalence of Eurosnobbery within 🇦🇺⚽️ circles today is the legacy of having made the global scene feel less-foreign💡
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Yep....You’re right the global side did take root. The fact that so many Australian fans now default to Premier League, Champions League or whatever big European club is the direct legacy of that earlier work. The overseas game no longer feels foreign. In that sense, Johnny and Les succeeded.

The problem is the second half of the job never really landed.

When the A League was formed they pretty much excluded SBS.

The thinking at the time was that the game needed to look more mainstream, more commercial, less “ethnic,” less tied to the old NSL world that SBS had covered for years.

In doing that, they cut themselves off from the one network that actually knew how to talk about football with knowledge, affection, and cultural weight. SBS had the archive, the credibility, and the audience that already cared.

Instead of building on that, the new league tried to reinvent the conversation from scratch on pay TV.

And you can still feel the consequence....
 
BA81 said:
In addition to that, we need reform of the State Feds/how they operate. Because in the other thread, turns out that over in 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿 it isn’t structured as it is here:

someguyjc

Post in thread 'P n R This could work'

LFC said:
here's the English FA board and down.....a general google search.
The Premier League is a private company limited by shares. Its shareholders are the 20 Member Clubs at any given time, and The FA, which holds a special share.

Governing Bodies and Major Leagues
  • Premier League: 5 board members (the Chair, 3 Independent Non-Executive Directors, and the Chief Executive). [1]
  • English Football League (EFL): 10 directors (6 divisional representatives from member clubs, 2 independent non-executive directors, an independent chair, and the CEO)...
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  • Like
  • Haha
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oh for sure we are over regulated and complicated as we all know - my quick English league google may not be that accurate BA81 but no doubt we have too many at the trough from top to State PFA etcetcetcetc.......
 
I know you are talking about NPL clubs but just an anecdote from my extended family in the Blue Mountains. My nephews all play football, some often go over to Fiji for some cup football. They grew up playing with Maty Ryan's extended family as their local mates and were foundation WSW members.

Then WSW played at Homebush and Penrith Panthers came to the fore. No more WSW or NPL interest though still EPL fans.
 
LFC said:
I luv its this game up front and centre with loads of controversy.
Can’t avoid top news headlines pretty normal to comment considering it’s a thread related to one of the eggball codes with the thread.
We all know deep down you melbonites do follow this game of yours :) despite your luv of football.
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Very happy to be in Essex, England if Sydney is swamped by AFL, though bad publicity.
The big issue here is Liverpool penalty??? Hmm harsh in the last minute.
 
LFC said:
I luv its this game up front and centre with loads of controversy.
Can’t avoid top news headlines pretty normal to comment considering it’s a thread related to one of the eggball codes with the thread.
We all know deep down you melbonites do follow this game of yours :) despite your luv of football.
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AFL in Sydney is only slightly bigger than NRL in Melbourne.
When the State Of Origin was on front and back pages in Melbourne, did that mean bigger crowds in Melbourne for the Storm.
 
melbcityguy said:
Honestly I think people over exaggerated afl in nsw and qld

I'm in Queensland and there's heaps of afl news I've seen goals as well at a park. Then Sydney women's team pulled 16k to their game. I think they are doing better then people on here say
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Too many Mexican immigrants in qld bringing their strange game
 
grazorblade said:
Too many Mexican immigrants in qld bringing their strange game
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QLD should never have opened the borders post covid. I reckon I might even be able to name all of their teams now. Not gonna try though as I don't want to feel dirty. The relentless AFL creep has incentivised me to buy a roar membership this season. (kayo games only) First one since the glory days.
 
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Football us life said:
In doing that, they cut themselves off from the one network that actually knew how to talk about football with knowledge, affection, and cultural weight. SBS had the archive, the credibility, and the audience that already cared.

Instead of building on that, the new league tried to reinvent the conversation from scratch on pay TV.

And you can still feel the consequence....
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I don't know that this was a deliberate strategy.

I do remember that Foster was very bitter about SBS not getting the AL rights which were sold to Fox for a peppercorn in the first season, followed by a $120 million deal in the second season which made headlines.

Did SBS bid for the rights at all? Surely they would have offered more than a peppercorn and surely the AL would have wanted as many eyes on the game as possible.
 
Mr Cleansheets said:
I don't know that this was a deliberate strategy.

I do remember that Foster was very bitter about SBS not getting the AL rights which were sold to Fox for a peppercorn in the first season, followed by a $120 million deal in the second season which made headlines.

Did SBS bid for the rights at all? Surely they would have offered more than a peppercorn and surely the AL would have wanted as many eyes on the game as possible.
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I thought it was generally-known that SBS were deliberately ignored by Lowy & O’Neill as far as A-League stuff was concerned. It was still of vital importance for the national teams, but the New Dawn powerbrokers obv wanted to align the new league w/something aesthetically ‘mainstream’ and ended up doing so via Foxtel.

I wonder if that was motivation for SBS securing the rights for the 2005 Ashes🏏, to show that they could be more than just the 'w0g channel' - not to mention its overall subsequent reinvention as the channel for worldly hipsters.
 
BA81 said:
I thought it was generally-known that SBS were deliberately ignored by Lowy & O’Neill as far as A-League stuff was concerned. It was still of vital importance for the national teams, but the New Dawn powerbrokers obv wanted to align the new league w/something aesthetically ‘mainstream’ and ended up doing so via Foxtel.

I wonder if that was motivation for SBS securing the rights for the 2005 Ashes🏏, to show that they could be more than just the 'w0g channel' - not to mention its overall subsequent reinvention as the channel for worldly hipsters.
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There was probably a bit of cutting ties ties with old football. But also the opportunity for growth. Partnership with SBS was unlikely to grow a tv rights deal in the same way Fox could (and ultimately did). Lowy and O'Neill both recognised the need to be mainstream and stop being a victim/minority sport. Money is needed to fund the game properly, this comes from eyeballs which comes from being mainstream.

SBS reminds me a bit of the traditional clubs. Once the later generations integrated into Australia, the need for these clubs as an important cultural link reduced and they lacked the next generation. SBS was very important to new communities as a link back to old countries, news, other programs etc. But even by 2005, and especially now, what point does that serve? If someone wants this stuff they can get it online fairly easily. SBS had to evolve. The 2005 Ashes was just an obvious financial opportunity because none of the other networks picked it up so they got it on the cheap.
 
Cunningstunt said:
There was probably a bit of cutting ties ties with old football. But also the opportunity for growth. Partnership with SBS was unlikely to grow a tv rights deal in the same way Fox could (and ultimately did). Lowy and O'Neill both recognised the need to be mainstream and stop being a victim/minority sport. Money is needed to fund the game properly, this comes from eyeballs which comes from being mainstream.

SBS reminds me a bit of the traditional clubs. Once the later generations integrated into Australia, the need for these clubs as an important cultural link reduced and they lacked the next generation. SBS was very important to new communities as a link back to old countries, news, other programs etc. But even by 2005, and especially now, what point does that serve? If someone wants this stuff they can get it online fairly easily. SBS had to evolve. The 2005 Ashes was just an obvious financial opportunity because none of the other networks picked it up so they got it on the cheap.
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Lowy and O'Neill both recognised the need to be mainstream and stop being a victim/minority sport. That panned out well.
 
Cunningstunt said:
Football continued to shit the bed during this period. It is still what is needed.
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There will never be 3 "mainstream" football codes in Australia... at least not for a very long time... NRL and AFL are actively tearing chunks out of each other as the only way to sustain their growth is to keep, well, growing. If one or the other manages to "kill the rival" soccer stands a chance at being #2. By that stage most of us will have been dead for 200 years.
 
Mr Cleansheets said:
I don't know that this was a deliberate strategy.

I do remember that Foster was very bitter about SBS not getting the AL rights which were sold to Fox for a peppercorn in the first season, followed by a $120 million deal in the second season which made headlines.

Did SBS bid for the rights at all? Surely they would have offered more than a peppercorn and surely the AL would have wanted as many eyes on the game as possible.
Click to expand...

I'm probably overemphasising my points a but but I think that SBS should have been embraced by the new regime and not passed over so to speak...

Maybe some shared coverage from day one would have been the smarter play.

Fox could have taken the bulk of the live games and the money, while SBS kept a meaningful free-to-air presence, ie) one live match a week, delayed finals, a strong weekly highlights/analysis show, and continued ownership of the broader football conversation.

Going down the "Exclusive on Fox Sports" route might have brought in more cash and a more polished presentation, but it also created a cultural break.

The people who had spent years building knowledge, contacts and affection for the game on free-to-air were suddenly on the outside looking in.

Embracing SBS wouldn’t have solved every problem the A-League faced and still faces. But freezing them out made the storytelling job harder than it needed to be, and that cost is still being paid.
 
Cunningstunt said:
Football continued to shit the bed during this period. It is still what is needed.
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granted that commercially $ is needed.
Trouble is in its current state throwing in new franchise's will only soften and deflect its struggle and loss's for a mo then stay ont he same path of mediocrity.
Any suggestions First Team regular ?
 
LFC said:
granted that commercially $ is needed.
Trouble is in its current state throwing in new franchise's will only soften and deflect its struggle and loss's for a mo then stay ont he same path of mediocrity.
Any suggestions First Team regular ?
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Forget spreadsheets, financial acronyms and PR-doused messaging. Ignore all of that...

Sure, they matter for keeping the lights on, but they don’t make anyone care.

Find the story, find the joy and build the culture. Forget perfect, take a risk. Failure and fallibility? Both absolutely okay...

Take the risk. Show the cracks. Let the joy and the frustration sit next to each other. That’s how you stop being a product and start becoming something people belong to or want to belong to.

Once people feel the game means something and once there’s identity, belonging and stories worth caring about the commercial side has something solid to build on.

Without that, you’re just selling tickets and sponsorship packages to an audience that can walk away the moment something shinier appears.

AFL understood this early and never really forgot it. Australian football keeps trying to reverse the order....

Get the money and the structure right, then hope the culture magically appears. It doesn’t work that way.
 
LFC said:
granted that commercially $ is needed.
Trouble is in its current state throwing in new franchise's will only soften and deflect its struggle and loss's for a mo then stay ont he same path of mediocrity.
Any suggestions First Team regular ?
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I don't know.
Pro and rel for the increased competition.
Individual clubs doing a better job reaching fan bases.
The failures of the Lowy administration led to the APL. People welcomed this, but I was always worried when you consider the people involved. I think the APL has been no better.
There might not be space for more than 2 codes. But footballs space at the moment is a very low point.
 
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