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Which is your preferred option for a national second tier?

Which is your preferred option for a national second tier?

  • 1) NPL post-season Champions League tournament

    Votes: 1 2.5%

  • 2) League format aligned with NPL season

    Votes: 9 22.5%

  • 3) League format aligned with A-League season

    Votes: 16 40.0%

  • 4) League format seasonally aligned with nothing

    Votes: 13 32.5%

  • 5) A form of conference system

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • 6) Nothing. It’s unsustainable

    Votes: 1 2.5%
  • Total voters
    40
  • This poll will close: .
HappyGuus

HappyGuus

Club Veteran
Staff member
Joined
Oct 17, 2024
Replies
2,788
Vote above. Explainers below.

1) NPL post-season Champions League tournament, similar to the 16 team group format or an 8 team single round-robin league (no pro/rel with A-League or NPL).

2) League format aligned with NPL season, starting late summer (pro/rel with NPL only, none with A-League).

3) League format aligned with A-League season, starting late winter (pro/rel with A-League only, none with NPL).

4) League format seasonally aligned with nothing, starting late autumn in-between the NPL and A-League starts (this allows a full pyramid connected with pro/rel). The Champions League format also adapts to become the NPL post-season pseudo national third tier (for promotion to NST).

5) A form of conference system (please list).

6) Nothing. It’s unsustainable. Keep the 8 federations separated FOREVER MWAHAHAHA!!!
 
Number 3 raises some interesting thoughts for me - are you suggesting that the two tiers hold the same teams in total and they just move up and down within the two tiers based on success and failure in the respective groups?
 
RIMB said:
Number 3 raises some interesting thoughts for me - are you suggesting that the two tiers hold the same teams in total and they just move up and down within the two tiers based on success and failure in the respective groups?
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They can have however many teams they want. But yes, there would be pro/rel between A-League and the Championship only. So admission to the NST in the first place would be via some form of minimum standards.

It's all based on the seasonal timings that I dived into in the thread below. Basically, the only option for a fully connected pyramid is option 4. But I've put other options here to see how many people don't want a connected pyramid haha. Surprising so far.

HappyGuus said:
Looking at the seasons again, these are the four options as I see it:

1. If NST aligns with A-League (summer):
NPL clubs promoted to NST have a 36 week off-season.

NST clubs relegated to NPL - 40 week off-season.

This could mean that a team that is promoted to NST then relegated back to NPL would only be able to play one season of football over 113 weeks. It won't work.

2. If NST aligns with NPL (winter):
NST clubs promoted to A-League - 56 week off-season. NST would actually finish 4 weeks before the next A-League season starts, but as the NST (and all leagues) need a mandatory 6 week post-season rest break, it would be impossible to join A-League that season (and would require at least some sort of pre-season training as well).

A-League clubs relegated to NST - 40 week off-season.

This could mean that a team that is promoted to A-League then relegated back to NST would only be able to play one season of football over 125 weeks. It won't work.

3. If we sit the NST season between current A-League and NPL, then pro/rel with reasonable off-seasons are achievable:
NPL clubs promoted to NST - 26 week off-season.
NST clubs relegated to NPL - 10 week off-season.

NST clubs promoted to A-League - 26 week off-season.
A-League clubs relegated to NST - 10 week off-season.

4. The pyramid aligns neatly with Asia, Europe and A-Leagues, and we can head off to lunch early.


3 and 4 are the only realistic options as far as I can tell. Obviously, option 4 is a piece of piss. So I thought I'd have a crack at a calendar for option 3. This is if the Member Federations want to stay in winter and APL want to stay in summer.

I've done my best to consider transfer windows, Asian competitions, seasons, breaks, finals, cups etc. and I think it flows pretty nicely. I've moved A-League to start during the pre-AFL finals bye round; they can play all the low drawing matches during this period and sharpen their game in time for the Asian comps kicking off. The A-League finals conclude before the AFC finals start, somewhere around Anzac Day.

With the NST I originally had them breaking for the Christmas-New Year period. But then I thought, they'll be professional, so they can play through it like the other professionals. But the option is there to have that break, it won't affect the calendar. The NST has to start before the A-League season, not after, otherwise there won't be enough off-season (1 week in my calendar!) if a team is promoted. The transfer window mightn't be ideal for the NST, it's more in line with what APL want with extra time after Europe closes. But this isn't critical and the window can be shifted a few weeks earlier if required.

The League Cup (optional) and Australia Cup can be flexible around that time of year. When the League Cup group stage is finished and half the clubs are kicked out, then the Aus Cup can start. I've put the Aus Cup final during the week off after the NPL regular season and before their Champions League. The NPL season starts just a couple of weeks later, but this won't affect the federations too much.

If anyone has any thoughts or feedback let me know. I might be overlooking something really simple.

Here's a two year overview of how it could look:


View attachment 703
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Great job @HappyGuus 3 is the quickest way to appease 'US' ousted and allow AL time to digest it and everyone to prepare....however 4 which has my vote is the most complete options as far as I can see especially to get that pyramid, thus the most logical.
To be fair though im easy and will take anything as long as we have a blueprint towards constant progress! Ive waited 20 years so a few more with a plan wouldnt phase me!
 
Hellenic_blue&white said:
Great job @HappyGuus 3 is the quickest way to appease 'US' ousted and allow AL time to digest it and everyone to prepare....however 4 which has my vote is the most complete options as far as I can see especially to get that pyramid, thus the most logical.
To be fair though im easy and will take anything as long as we have a blueprint towards constant progress! Ive waited 20 years so a few more with a plan wouldnt phase me!
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Exactly right. And option 2 with pro/rel between NPL and NST is what AAFC wanted from the outset.

But yeah, option 3 I feel would be the most successful at the earliest, and option 4 the ideal next step afterwards for the long term.

Then again, connecting the entire pyramid straight up with option 4 is what will grow the game and make everyone feel a connection to their place in both Australian football and globally. Even if we have just one pro/rel spot between NPL and NST, and NST and A-League, everyone will have the dream.

We need to make the Championship a huge success so the APL clubs don't fear ending up in it. And put enough clubs in the A-League and Championship so that the APL clubs are highly unlikely to be relegated from the second tier. To achieve connection we have to make it as risk free as possible for APL, otherwise it will never happen. Once connected, then we can open it up even more.

Damn, I'm just too passionate about this hahaha. The APL don't realise how much this would improve their business and standing amongst the football public.
 
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HappyGuus said:
Exactly right. And option 2 with pro/rel between NPL and NST is what AAFC wanted from the outset.

But yeah, option 3 I feel would be the most successful at the earliest, and option 4 the ideal next step afterwards for the long term.

Then again, connecting the entire pyramid straight up with option 4 is what will grow the game and make everyone feel a connection to their place in both Australian football and globally. Even if we have just one pro/rel spot between NPL and NST, and NST and A-League, everyone will have the dream.

We need to make the Championship a huge success so the APL clubs don't fear ending up in it. And put enough clubs in the A-League and Championship so that the APL clubs are highly unlikely to be relegated from the second tier. To achieve connection we have to make it as risk free as possible for APL, otherwise it will never happen. Once connected, then we can open it up even more.

Damn, I'm just too passionate about this hahaha. The APL don't realise how much this would improve their business and standing amongst the football public.
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I don't think there should be pro/rel between NPL and NST, only between A-League and NST and one-way promotion of teams from NPL to NST. Option 1 with alignment between NST and the A-League starting in late summer might work without relegation from NST to NPL as it would remove the problem of having teams promoted then relegated back playing only one season across the long timeframe projected, and I'd prefer that NPL kept its current implementation of pro/rel as is.
 
rebelliousfeminist974 said:
I don't think there should be pro/rel between NPL and NST, only between A-League and NST and one-way promotion of teams from NPL to NST. Option 1 with alignment between NST and the A-League starting in late summer might work without relegation from NST to NPL as it would remove the problem of having teams promoted then relegated back playing only one season across the long timeframe projected, and I'd prefer that NPL kept its current implementation of pro/rel as is.
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Beretta said:
#3 for me at the moment, but could be subject to change pending on how the Champions League format goes next month.
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So you both want to cut out NPL teams Like Adelaide City, Knights, Brisbane City (or any others) from the NST from the get go???
 
Monoethnic Social Club said:
So you both want to cut out NPL teams Like Adelaide City, Knights, Brisbane City (or any others) from the NST from the get go???
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I don't want NPL teams to be cut altogether from the NST, if they do well in NPL then promote them into NST and keep them there until it's necessary for the league to contract. Once they're in NST then they can be promoted and relegated between NST and A-League and they stay in those two tiers whilst NPL pro/rel carries on as it is now, separate from the top two divisions.
 
rebelliousfeminist974 said:
I don't want NPL teams to be cut altogether from the NST, if they do well in NPL then promote them into NST and keep them there until it's necessary for the league to contract. Once they're in NST then they can be promoted and relegated between NST and A-League and they stay in those two tiers whilst NPL pro/rel carries on as it is now, separate from the top two divisions.
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Sure, but what happens when the NST grows too large?
 
Glenardo said:
Would get better crowds in summer, but on a personal level I’d probably get bored in winter without the sokkah. I’m sure I’m not alone on here in saying going to the games makes winter more bearable
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Yeah Im def pro winter season personally.
 
hence why I aligned with my pick, thats football season !
 
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