melbcityguy
Club Legend
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This is the stupidest story I've read. Like I dunno if it's xenophobic to soccer or if they are just stupid it's mind boggling
Tasmania FC thread
- Thread starter The Frontliner
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They're lazy twits. There's a public park 850 metres down the road!
Ange's high line
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In all seriousness, it may come down to the type of grass, cooch or baffalo, in that other park down the road, that may decide the fate of Perry Park's upgrade.
The effect on the dogs' running style and change of direction, at the other venue.
The effect on the dogs' running style and change of direction, at the other venue.
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erogenouszone
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Bit from column A, bit from column B.
chuq
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Hi all, first post here, people may remember me as the Tassie A-League guy from various forums 10-15+ years ago! I've been out of the loop for several years as being a parent to young kids took over for a while. I only realised this forum existed a few days ago. I drafted a long post as a reply to the "Boutique Stadiums" thread, but then I realised there was a Tasmania FC thread. So now I've rewritten the (non-rectangular stadium) bits of it!
Mac Point Stadium
Obviously this is the elephant in the room, the Macquarie Point Stadium. Encyclopedia volumes of opinions have been written about this, no point repeating it all here, but suffice to say despite not being an AFL supporter personally (far from it), it and the AFL team will be a great thing for the state and city. The AFL club is what got it going, but it's not all about them - about 75% of the planned events are non-AFL.
If it had failed, "building a stadium" would be a poisoned chalice, no politician would want to risk mentioning a stadium again, so a rectangular stadium would be off the cards for many years.
In any case, it is going ahead, so we need to make the most of it to get the best result for football. Despite being oval, it's not bad news for us. I had the opportunity to chat with the CEO of the Macquarie Point Development Corporation when they had a public showcase late last year, where I learned about a few design features that intend to make it as spectator friendly as possible for football. These include making the oval shape as "tight" as possible (not huge and circular like the MCG or York Park), having the stands at a steeper pitch than usual, and also the first row of the seating is not at ground level, but one step higher. Obviously all just words right now, but we will see.
Apart from not being rectangular, everything else about the venue will be world class, it will be close to the restaurant/bar strip of Salamanca, walking distance to heaps of hotels - events here will produce an incredible fan experience. I'm confident that we will see the Socceroos/Matildas play in Tasmania for the first time. I also think we can expect 1-2 visiting A-League matches a year here. Should we host another Asian Cup or Women's World Cup, or something of that ilk, it will be a prime contender to attract some group games.
However, I don't think we could host a permanent A-League team at the site. Nothing to do with shape, or capacity, but the fact is... it will have a drop-in cricket wicket on it from November until February. There is no doubt it could be used for high drawing matches, like finals and so on. But there just isn't access to it for 13-14 matches a season over summer (more if including an A-League Women's team).
More on rectangular stadium ideas in another post..
Past A-League bids & FT
The first A-League bid was in 2008 and there have been at least a couple of others since. Each time, FFT (now Football Tasmania) has been either ambivalent or ignorant of the bids. They either didn't want to be involved, or they only feigned interest when things were looking positive. Their current strategic plan mentions "A-League" three times with no detail.
I remember one specific event where an FT rep (possibly CEO) said in an interview "Tasmania has no chance of an A-League team" and within a couple of days, a well progressed bid team came out publicly, and the FT rep changed their tune and tried to latch on to it. I can't for the life of me remember when or who it was, unfortunately.
FFT is hugely keen on their "Home of Football", but of the locations being considered, Wentworth Park is the most central and even that is not particularly central ... and in any case, there's nothing in the plans appropriate for hosting top level matches. It's an admin building and a bunch of pitches, and while I get that is important for grassroots, I'm unsure as to how they're spending $80m on it.
The most recent bid had Victoria Morton involved, I was in touch with her a bit during that time. I really thought they were going to get through.. that was the round where we got Macarthur and Western United, so I don't think the failure of the bid can be blamed on the bid team.
Other professional teams in Tasmania
The other sports have the advantage of working together facility wise. AFL and cricket share oval grounds. Basketball and netball share indoor courts. The Derwent Entertainment Centre (JackJumpers main home) got an upgrade just before they joined, now on the back of that the Silverdome (Launceston, their "second home") is getting a minor upgrade, but also on the basis that the WNBL team and maybe netball team will play a higher percentage of games there. There's also a community multi sport complex being built at Devonport Oval which includes a 3k capacity indoor court, again pretty minor in the scheme of things, but it will be occasionally used by the teams mentioned and is an example of how it becomes a bit of a positive feedback loop. This is (IMHO) just bad luck for football. In other states we can pair with rugby clubs for facilities but sometimes that doesn't work out well - consider the pitch issues with Lang Park and even SFS.
We had clean air 18 years ago. Now the calendar is very crowded. Looking for an upside, however, Tasmania is developing a professional sports industry for the first time. There is a lot of experience in all the facets that make up a professional club, from the sporting side through to management, marketing and so on.
Stadiums Tasmania
The other general comment is that Stadiums Tasmania, a state government authority, was established in 2021 and officially commenced operation in 2023. The intention is to centralise management of major sports/event venues, instead of them being handled individually by various councils. This is happening gradually at the moment but once complete it should include the DEC (ex-Glenorchy), York Park (ex-Launceston), Silverdome (govt managed since 1985), and Bellerive Oval (ex-Clarence, though leased to Cricket Tas). And of course Mac Point will fall under this too. The advantage here is that individual councils aren't competing for events. Instead, Stadiums Tasmania can coordinate and promote venues collectively. If the state wishes to secure a one-off major event, it can leverage its portfolio and manage negotiations and scheduling centrally.
That's my brain dump of bits of pieces of Tassie football (and more broadly, Tassie sport) for now. Next post will focus on rectangular stadium discussion...
Mac Point Stadium
Obviously this is the elephant in the room, the Macquarie Point Stadium. Encyclopedia volumes of opinions have been written about this, no point repeating it all here, but suffice to say despite not being an AFL supporter personally (far from it), it and the AFL team will be a great thing for the state and city. The AFL club is what got it going, but it's not all about them - about 75% of the planned events are non-AFL.
If it had failed, "building a stadium" would be a poisoned chalice, no politician would want to risk mentioning a stadium again, so a rectangular stadium would be off the cards for many years.
In any case, it is going ahead, so we need to make the most of it to get the best result for football. Despite being oval, it's not bad news for us. I had the opportunity to chat with the CEO of the Macquarie Point Development Corporation when they had a public showcase late last year, where I learned about a few design features that intend to make it as spectator friendly as possible for football. These include making the oval shape as "tight" as possible (not huge and circular like the MCG or York Park), having the stands at a steeper pitch than usual, and also the first row of the seating is not at ground level, but one step higher. Obviously all just words right now, but we will see.
Apart from not being rectangular, everything else about the venue will be world class, it will be close to the restaurant/bar strip of Salamanca, walking distance to heaps of hotels - events here will produce an incredible fan experience. I'm confident that we will see the Socceroos/Matildas play in Tasmania for the first time. I also think we can expect 1-2 visiting A-League matches a year here. Should we host another Asian Cup or Women's World Cup, or something of that ilk, it will be a prime contender to attract some group games.
However, I don't think we could host a permanent A-League team at the site. Nothing to do with shape, or capacity, but the fact is... it will have a drop-in cricket wicket on it from November until February. There is no doubt it could be used for high drawing matches, like finals and so on. But there just isn't access to it for 13-14 matches a season over summer (more if including an A-League Women's team).
More on rectangular stadium ideas in another post..
Past A-League bids & FT
The first A-League bid was in 2008 and there have been at least a couple of others since. Each time, FFT (now Football Tasmania) has been either ambivalent or ignorant of the bids. They either didn't want to be involved, or they only feigned interest when things were looking positive. Their current strategic plan mentions "A-League" three times with no detail.
I remember one specific event where an FT rep (possibly CEO) said in an interview "Tasmania has no chance of an A-League team" and within a couple of days, a well progressed bid team came out publicly, and the FT rep changed their tune and tried to latch on to it. I can't for the life of me remember when or who it was, unfortunately.
FFT is hugely keen on their "Home of Football", but of the locations being considered, Wentworth Park is the most central and even that is not particularly central ... and in any case, there's nothing in the plans appropriate for hosting top level matches. It's an admin building and a bunch of pitches, and while I get that is important for grassroots, I'm unsure as to how they're spending $80m on it.
The most recent bid had Victoria Morton involved, I was in touch with her a bit during that time. I really thought they were going to get through.. that was the round where we got Macarthur and Western United, so I don't think the failure of the bid can be blamed on the bid team.
Other professional teams in Tasmania
- 2011: Nil
- 2012: 1: Hobart Hurricanes (BBL)
- 2015: 2: Hobart Hurricanes (WBBL)
- 2021: 3: Tasmania JackJumpers (NBL)
- 2026: 4: Tasmania Jewels (WNBL)
- 2028: 6: Tasmania Devils (AFL + AFLW)
The other sports have the advantage of working together facility wise. AFL and cricket share oval grounds. Basketball and netball share indoor courts. The Derwent Entertainment Centre (JackJumpers main home) got an upgrade just before they joined, now on the back of that the Silverdome (Launceston, their "second home") is getting a minor upgrade, but also on the basis that the WNBL team and maybe netball team will play a higher percentage of games there. There's also a community multi sport complex being built at Devonport Oval which includes a 3k capacity indoor court, again pretty minor in the scheme of things, but it will be occasionally used by the teams mentioned and is an example of how it becomes a bit of a positive feedback loop. This is (IMHO) just bad luck for football. In other states we can pair with rugby clubs for facilities but sometimes that doesn't work out well - consider the pitch issues with Lang Park and even SFS.
We had clean air 18 years ago. Now the calendar is very crowded. Looking for an upside, however, Tasmania is developing a professional sports industry for the first time. There is a lot of experience in all the facets that make up a professional club, from the sporting side through to management, marketing and so on.
Stadiums Tasmania
The other general comment is that Stadiums Tasmania, a state government authority, was established in 2021 and officially commenced operation in 2023. The intention is to centralise management of major sports/event venues, instead of them being handled individually by various councils. This is happening gradually at the moment but once complete it should include the DEC (ex-Glenorchy), York Park (ex-Launceston), Silverdome (govt managed since 1985), and Bellerive Oval (ex-Clarence, though leased to Cricket Tas). And of course Mac Point will fall under this too. The advantage here is that individual councils aren't competing for events. Instead, Stadiums Tasmania can coordinate and promote venues collectively. If the state wishes to secure a one-off major event, it can leverage its portfolio and manage negotiations and scheduling centrally.
That's my brain dump of bits of pieces of Tassie football (and more broadly, Tassie sport) for now. Next post will focus on rectangular stadium discussion...
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Cracking first post mate!
I thought the whole idea of drop in pitches was flexibility, quick install and removal?
Quote:
"These surfaces allow venues like the MCG to pivot from other sports to cricket within 24 hours"
I thought the whole idea of drop in pitches was flexibility, quick install and removal?
Quote:
"These surfaces allow venues like the MCG to pivot from other sports to cricket within 24 hours"
chuq
Academy Recruit
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If it is that quick then it does change the situation significantly! I admit I'm not 100% on the process, but I was under the impression it was the kind of thing they didn't want to be doing back-and-forth a couple of times a week. I thought the benefit was that they didn't need weeks of ground curation etc.
Cricket Tas also intends to play Sheffield Shield and One-Day Cup matches at Mac Point as well, so that may take up more days. (My guess - the Sheffield Shield will be purely to get Test accreditation - after that, it surely doesn't need a 23k venue)
The other likely summer events (concerts and basketball) they are covering the wicket area with a floor anyway so those aren't an issue to intersperse between cricket matches. So it would only be an issue for us
melbcityguy
Club Legend
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So looking at Newcastles grounds staff refusing to put the sprinklers on there has to something going on
erogenouszone
Captain
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Nah, they're just lazy.
Good day, Chuq.
Welcome to the forum!
Haven't seen you online for years!
You live in the adjoining suburb to the guy who owns this forum!
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From what I understand, South Hobart were founded in 1910, and Darcy St opened in 1910, so I'm guessing they are largely responsible for the establishment of the park?
Add to that the dogs have only been allowed there since 2005 ish. And there's an actual park just down the road. They can't play soccer on that park, but the dogs can use it freely.
It's a no-brainer, but a couple of empty kettles want to make noise.
Off topic but still relevant to Tassie football.
A couple of Tassie products in Dan Wojcik and Iluka Wootton have joined Adelaide’s youth team.
Adelaide don’t normally recruit any interstate players for the youth setup so this is very unusual.
A couple of Tassie products in Dan Wojcik and Iluka Wootton have joined Adelaide’s youth team.
Adelaide don’t normally recruit any interstate players for the youth setup so this is very unusual.
chuq
Academy Recruit
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Thanks Decentric, I think it's been a while, either the TUFC forum, TWGF or maybe MV.net?
I've definitely been online! Just not so much in football circles.
So this site is run by a Hobartian! Curious if it's anyone well known from the football world or just a fan!
The dog owners in the area perceive the issue differently.
Many are also involved in football too.
Hobart City Council has tried to accommodate exercise for dogs to include sportsgrounds, due to less public space than other councils.
Good question, Chuq?
The owner chooses to keep himself pretty anonymous. It is his right.
How did you find about the forum?
Pasquali created it when 442, which became Inside Sport, started to run down. Then they closed it. TWG had many members who moved to 442, after it closed. He has done a wonderful job setting Green and Gold FC up.
This forum is the best football forum I've been involved in.
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Ta.
I'm a Tas Cricket Member and see the Tas Crick CEO and Sec a fair bit.If it is that quick then it does change the situation significantly! I admit I'm not 100% on the process, but I was under the impression it was the kind of thing they didn't want to be doing back-and-forth a couple of times a week. I thought the benefit was that they didn't need weeks of ground curation etc.
Cricket Tas also intends to play Sheffield Shield and One-Day Cup matches at Mac Point as well, so that may take up more days. (My guess - the Sheffield Shield will be purely to get Test accreditation - after that, it surely doesn't need a 23k venue)
The other likely summer events (concerts and basketball) they are covering the wicket area with a floor anyway so those aren't an issue to intersperse between cricket matches. So it would only be an issue for us
I don't think Shield games are on the agenda at Mac Point.
chuq
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I can't remember and it was only last week! I think it was related to the Breaking Barriers / promotion-relegation discussion. Linked from reddit most likely.
I don't think it's long term but they need to play some sort of long-form game there to get the accreditation for Test matches? So it's either Sheffield Shield or some non-competition/exhibition games?
chuq
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Onto part 2 - the boutique stadium talk
So, while the Mac Point stadium will be great to draw some big events to establish local interest in top-level football, there will be a need for a boutique rectangular stadium. While this has always been a thought, the difference now is that it doesn't need to be that big anymore - 10k or so is fine, maybe a little less - since Mac Point (23k) can host the occasional larger event. It will still need to be a modern stadium with modern amenities however - food/beverage, player facilities, media, etc. Covered seating too - open air stands exposed to the weather won't cut it. (Full roofed venue might be a bit too much of an ask though...)
But where?
It would be deserving for Tasmania's most successful club, South Hobart FC, to be the recipient of a venue upgrade to become the premier rectangular ground in the state. Unfortunately, there isn't space around Darcy Street to accommodate this - so that's a no-go.
It needs to be relatively close to the city, to be accessible, so that rules out most of the other suburban grounds. I agree with the comment earlier in the thread - a modified North Hobart Oval. Unlike the TCA Ground, North Hobart Oval doesn't have a permanent summer tenant - meaning no cricket wicket in the centre, and no team to displace. It's also close to the North Hobart restaurant strip, for pre-match and post-match gatherings. There are buses travelling up and down Elizabeth St and Argyle St, and (in the future) there are even plans for the proposed Bus Rapid Transit route to travel down Letitia St.
The AFL purists won't like it ... but there needs to be some give and take considering the $$ investment that they have received (and I don't mean the stadium - the Devils high performance centre in Kingston is getting about $120m of govt funding, including two ovals and all the facilities you'd expect of a high end professional club.)
To go back into history, here's a design that I spent 10 minutes to draw up in paint about 9 years ago. Not saying it's very good, but I shared it around back then so it may be familiar.
Very rough, and numbers are guesstimated, but a concept as a temporary summer setup for A-League. I noticed that a regulation pitch could fit horizontally and proposed that layout, such that the permanent north-west stand *could* be useful for both rectangular and oval layouts.
Of course, things have changed since then. High drawing AFL content will be more likely to go to Mac Point or the Kingston HPC (for minor events like pre-season or VFL/VFLW). If there is an intention for the ground to be reconfigured as rectangular eventually, perhaps a temporary setup like this would be most beneficial (the curved stand if there is to be ongoing winter usage for AFL; the straight stand if there is going to be a permanent rectangularised pitch):
That's one direction we could take. However, if we were to think bigger and raze/rebuild the site, the other challenge would be the two heritage listed stands.
The left hand one (Horrie Gorringe Stand) is the largest and was built in 1923. The right hand one is (I think) a 10 year old identical rebuild of one that was destroyed by fire about 12 years ago, so I'm not sure how heritage listing applies to that. There is potential to demolish everything except the heritage stands and build a rectangular pitch in the south-west corner of the site, integrating the heritage stands into a fully surrounded structure - not unlike the SCG with the Members and Ladies Stands.
This would also free up about 13,000 square metres in an L-shaped space at the north and east of the site, which could be used as a public plaza, parklands, car park, etc. There is a quite a change in elevation across the site, so if it was being razed, car parking could go underneath - which would provide benefit to the city every day, not just event days.
Now there is one element to this I haven't even touched on - the Launceston question. I believe in any case, there will be an expectation for some matches to be held in the north of the state, and that's reasonable. Unfortunately, the venue situation there is more dire. While it is, of course, possible to hold matches at York Park - I was part of Tasmania's biggest club football crowd when 8000 people watched Victory and Adelaide play in 2007 - York Park has a large oval surface - the pitch location there makes viewing sub-optimal. However, it might be a necessity in the short term - asking for two rectangular stadiums might be reaching a bit far. If we were to draw up a long term plan, then perhaps somewhere such as the Northern Rangers home venue at the NTCA Ground might be possible. It's a discussion to be had in the future.
But overall, that's my optimum configuration. Mac Point Stadium (23k) for Socceroos/Matildas, finals, marquee games, and international competitions. North Hobart Oval (10k, rectangularised) for A-League men's and women's season matches.
So, while the Mac Point stadium will be great to draw some big events to establish local interest in top-level football, there will be a need for a boutique rectangular stadium. While this has always been a thought, the difference now is that it doesn't need to be that big anymore - 10k or so is fine, maybe a little less - since Mac Point (23k) can host the occasional larger event. It will still need to be a modern stadium with modern amenities however - food/beverage, player facilities, media, etc. Covered seating too - open air stands exposed to the weather won't cut it. (Full roofed venue might be a bit too much of an ask though...)
But where?
It would be deserving for Tasmania's most successful club, South Hobart FC, to be the recipient of a venue upgrade to become the premier rectangular ground in the state. Unfortunately, there isn't space around Darcy Street to accommodate this - so that's a no-go.
It needs to be relatively close to the city, to be accessible, so that rules out most of the other suburban grounds. I agree with the comment earlier in the thread - a modified North Hobart Oval. Unlike the TCA Ground, North Hobart Oval doesn't have a permanent summer tenant - meaning no cricket wicket in the centre, and no team to displace. It's also close to the North Hobart restaurant strip, for pre-match and post-match gatherings. There are buses travelling up and down Elizabeth St and Argyle St, and (in the future) there are even plans for the proposed Bus Rapid Transit route to travel down Letitia St.
The AFL purists won't like it ... but there needs to be some give and take considering the $$ investment that they have received (and I don't mean the stadium - the Devils high performance centre in Kingston is getting about $120m of govt funding, including two ovals and all the facilities you'd expect of a high end professional club.)
To go back into history, here's a design that I spent 10 minutes to draw up in paint about 9 years ago. Not saying it's very good, but I shared it around back then so it may be familiar.
Very rough, and numbers are guesstimated, but a concept as a temporary summer setup for A-League. I noticed that a regulation pitch could fit horizontally and proposed that layout, such that the permanent north-west stand *could* be useful for both rectangular and oval layouts.
Of course, things have changed since then. High drawing AFL content will be more likely to go to Mac Point or the Kingston HPC (for minor events like pre-season or VFL/VFLW). If there is an intention for the ground to be reconfigured as rectangular eventually, perhaps a temporary setup like this would be most beneficial (the curved stand if there is to be ongoing winter usage for AFL; the straight stand if there is going to be a permanent rectangularised pitch):
That's one direction we could take. However, if we were to think bigger and raze/rebuild the site, the other challenge would be the two heritage listed stands.
The left hand one (Horrie Gorringe Stand) is the largest and was built in 1923. The right hand one is (I think) a 10 year old identical rebuild of one that was destroyed by fire about 12 years ago, so I'm not sure how heritage listing applies to that. There is potential to demolish everything except the heritage stands and build a rectangular pitch in the south-west corner of the site, integrating the heritage stands into a fully surrounded structure - not unlike the SCG with the Members and Ladies Stands.
This would also free up about 13,000 square metres in an L-shaped space at the north and east of the site, which could be used as a public plaza, parklands, car park, etc. There is a quite a change in elevation across the site, so if it was being razed, car parking could go underneath - which would provide benefit to the city every day, not just event days.
Now there is one element to this I haven't even touched on - the Launceston question. I believe in any case, there will be an expectation for some matches to be held in the north of the state, and that's reasonable. Unfortunately, the venue situation there is more dire. While it is, of course, possible to hold matches at York Park - I was part of Tasmania's biggest club football crowd when 8000 people watched Victory and Adelaide play in 2007 - York Park has a large oval surface - the pitch location there makes viewing sub-optimal. However, it might be a necessity in the short term - asking for two rectangular stadiums might be reaching a bit far. If we were to draw up a long term plan, then perhaps somewhere such as the Northern Rangers home venue at the NTCA Ground might be possible. It's a discussion to be had in the future.
But overall, that's my optimum configuration. Mac Point Stadium (23k) for Socceroos/Matildas, finals, marquee games, and international competitions. North Hobart Oval (10k, rectangularised) for A-League men's and women's season matches.