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Poppa Out

Anyone calling for Popa's head can't have watched a lot of the teams who reached the last 32 and particularly the last 16.

I've calculated top leagues in the world number:

UEFA V Big Five
100 clubs
15 starting players at each
* 1500 players

30ish Big UEFA Clubs not in the EUFA Big Five, who play a lot of Champ League and Europa League
15 starting players at each club
* 450 players

Brazil/Argentina
Circa 40 clubs
15 starting players at each club
*600 players

* Total 2550 players playing elite club football in the world.

How many Aussies?
Circati in Serie A. Since Italy haven't qualified for 3 WCs in succession, how good are the 50% of Italian nationals who play in Serie A?
Ditto Volpato, but he is a sub in Serie A, I think?

Ryan plays in the Spanish top flight.

Bos plays for Feyenoorde - in the Big UEFA 30 outside the Big Five leagues

Irvine starter at St Pauli, with Metcalfe a sub. They've been demoted.

So all Aus has is 4 starters and 2 subs playing at elite club level out of 2550 players globally.

I'd surmise most teams in the last 32 at the 2026 WC, and even in the original 48, had far more players playing at elite club levels than us. To get out of the group stage was pretty good for the Roos.

Our depth at both Wing Back flanks and Striker/Wingers was exposed when Italiano, Bos, Toure ( carrying injury) and McGree were injured.

I intend to list the salient technical qualities of various WC national teams in the Socceroo stats/analysis thread, and, how they compare to Aus.
Stares at you in Cape Verde.

I think the point most people are making is that hiding behind these stats is defeatist. We keep trying to play ourselves as underdogs and these battlers, but when are we going to go to the next level? How often can we keep being at this stage?

At tournaments like this, you can't leave things on the field, and that's what we did. Popa sets us up to leave things on the field, which is frustrating and does not move us forward.
 
Among other things, your argument is superficial. You talk first about whether any of us watched a lot of the last 32 teams in the World Cup (how much of all those teams did you watch?), but then not mention anything else about those teams compared to Australia, eg their playing style or anything else related to the coaching.

Instead you veer off into some simplistic calculation of how many “elite club level” players there are in the world, and how many of them are Aussies, and why that small number of “elite club level” Aussie players meant that we did well to get out of the group at the World Cup. It's a silly argument. Using the same logic I could argue that we definitely should have beaten Egypt as they only have three “elite club level” players.
I was chatting to Infantino yesterday afternoon during our weekly catch up with Ronadlinho and Donald Trump. They all mentioned to me how much they admire retirees who pretend to have a working appreciation for the beautiful game and use words like "ameliorate" incorrectly.
 
It's an insulting opening paragraph. Do you mean to be? You always seem to denegrate the opinions of those that disagree with the National Team coach of the day by saying they don't know anything. It's intellectual superiority. You open a discussion like that and I bet you've already lost most of the people you're trying to communicate to. They'll be totally closed to anything you say subsequently even if you have some good points.

I'll ask you this: What do you think we could have done better at the World Cup?
I apologise if that is what you perceived, Q? Appreciate reading the passionate comments from you and everybody else in this thread, and others, even if I perceive you are collectively, overly harsh on Popa's tenure. It is simply a question of opinions. We should embrace diversity, but there isn't much Popa love in this thread.

Strong opinions are proffered, often with many agreeing in unison on G and G. It can be interpreted as group think. It is good that posters are so passionate about the Roos.

Even more so there have been some incredible opinions proffered with some pundits in the media, even with some former Socceroos. Also, some of the sage comments in the media, are then taken out of context by crap media, exemplified in Milligan and Oar's comprehensive views not being reported after what they identified as the Roos' strengths.

Harry Kewell, as a former great player, does not equate to being a great coach and analyst. To the best of my knowledge, HK has struggled to hold down any coaching job for a sustained period, and was even sacked from English Lower League positions. Also, to the best of my knowledge, Kewell has done a lot of his coach education in England, which tends to be inferior. Notwithstanding , HK makes some valid points. I wish Harry every success in the V League.

As to what should change.

I' m plagiarising Petar Petrov, a player scout who appeared on G and G Podcast as an esteemed guest some time ago. PP suggested the 5 at the back in our 5-4-1 in Ball Possession Opposition, in the back third of the pitch, needs to be converted into a 3-4-3 more quickly. I'll add, because of my KNVB training, in the Attacking Transition for Aus. This is the 6-10 second phase when a team regains possession. The Roos get into the defensive shape quickly in the Defensive Transitions comparatively, but Petar didn't say that, I did. Good work from Petar, and watching a few Roo replays, I agree.

I'll also plagiarise Tommy Oar. Whilst he lauded the Aus defensive structure, he suggested the team needs to improve the system in midfield and attack when we have the ball, apart from through balls played quickly to Irank and Bos, with opposition high defensive lines in accelerated attacks. Even Volpato, receiving in less space and with balls played to feet, is an outlet.

After watching the three top teams, technically, IMO, Spain, Portugal and France, despite Argentina having a lot of success, and England too, the passing lanes opened in confined spaces in midfield the central attacking third, and the ability to 1 and 2 touch pass in little time and space, has been extraordinary.
Spain is the best, but Portugal almost mirrored them. Spain only has 1 effective dribbler though - Yamal on the right. France has heaps of them.

Sadly, I don't think Metcalfe, Mabil, Irvine, Behich, Miller, can do this well enough to proceed past the first knockout rounds at a WC. Hrustic can, but is a liability when he doesn't have the ball at his feet.

We need the tyros Okon, Robertson, Sicluna, Bozinovski, Italiano, Bos, Irank, Toure to step up from where they currently are and move the ball faster than we currently do in possession, given the quality of opposition at WC knock out phase. I'll go into more detail in the Socceroo stats/analysis thread.
Briefly to try and emulate Spain's 1 touch passing and moving, opens up defences. Their players can often take 1 touch pass under pressure, whilst other teams need to take 2. Spanish, Portuguese and French players' body shape is extraordinary, as is their first touch under pressure. The current Roos are too far behind them ATM to progress into the last 16 and last 8.

You've mentioned before, taken to its logical conclusion, nobody should criticise the Aus coach of the day - in response to comments I've made. A point well made by you, Q. Although you've probably all had a good Popa bash over the last few weeks on here, as I've been busy watching WC replays!

On this forum, and 442/IS, I feel that both Arnie and Popa have been judged very harshly though. I agree the wheels fell off a bit for Arnie at the last Asian Cup and the first 2 games of the last round of WCQs, but a few months ago there were only about 3-5 posters on this forum who supported Popa as coach. Popa turned Aus's WCQ campaign around.

To his credit, Popa now has a team who turned out against Egypt, where if there had been no injuries, apart from Souttar and O'Neill, the rest would be under the age of 25. Popa has really renewed the team. Surely Popa deserves some love?
 
I was chatting to Infantino yesterday afternoon during our weekly catch up with Ronadlinho and Donald Trump. They all mentioned to me how much they admire retirees who pretend to have a working appreciation for the beautiful game and use words like "ameliorate" incorrectly.
I don’t believe this. The reason being that Trump would not know the word “ameliorate”, let alone even use it incorrectly 😁
 
Stares at you in Cape Verde.

I think the point most people are making is that hiding behind these stats is defeatist. We keep trying to play ourselves as underdogs and these battlers, but when are we going to go to the next level? How often can we keep being at this stage?

At tournaments like this, you can't leave things on the field, and that's what we did. Popa sets us up to leave things on the field, which is frustrating and does not move us forward.
I haven't seen Cape Verde yet. Obviously their progress has been amazing!

I did get aa good look at Congo playing England though - and was blown out!

They lost 1-2 to England, but were right in the game.

They also highlighted Tuchel' s mistake of overlooking shorter technical players, like Phil Foden and Cole Palmer, plus others. England often only had 1 player on the pitch under 1.80 metres tall - Saka.

England have evolved to play a good national team style, but they have far too many less nimble giants of 1.85 to 1.88 metres tall on the pitch at the same time - all over the pitch.

On both flanks Congo had a good, shorter ball player who worried England and exposed their lack of nimble footed, shorter players, quicker on the turn to delay, jockey, show and change direction quickly.

For this thread relevance, Popa has less to work with his current cattle, than Congo's coach. Every 6 months down the track, Aussies ' plethora of tyros develop. We need them to ASAP.
 
I haven't seen Cape Verde yet. Obviously their progress has been amazing!

I did get aa good look at Congo playing England though - and was blown out!

They lost 1-2 to England, but were right in the game.

They also highlighted Tuchel' s mistake of overlooking shorter technical players, like Phil Foden and Cole Palmer, plus others. England often only had 1 player on the pitch under 1.80 metres tall - Saka.

England have evolved to play a good national team style, but they have far too many less nimble giants of 1.85 to 1.88 metres tall on the pitch at the same time - all over the pitch.

On both flanks Congo had a good, shorter ball player who worried England and exposed their lack of nimble footed, shorter players, quicker on the turn to delay, jockey, show and change direction quickly.

For this thread relevance, Popa has less to work with his current cattle, than Congo's coach. Every 6 months down the track, Aussies ' plethora of tyros develop. We need them to ASAP.
I'm not sure what point you are trying to make here. I was responding to you saying we were not as high on the list of players playing at elite levels at club, and so our journey was a success.

I was simply saying that if a team like Cape Verde could take Argentina to where they did, then why couldn't we have shown more fight. The argument that our players don't play elite club level is disproven.
 
I'm not sure what point you are trying to make here. I was responding to you saying we were not as high on the list of players playing at elite levels at club, and so our journey was a success.

I was simply saying that if a team like Cape Verde could take Argentina to where they did, then why couldn't we have shown more fight. The argument that our players don't play elite club level is disproven.


Sorry but how was that disproven?
 
I'm not sure what point you are trying to make here. I was responding to you saying we were not as high on the list of players playing at elite levels at club, and so our journey was a success.

I was simply saying that if a team like Cape Verde could take Argentina to where they did, then why couldn't we have shown more fight. The argument that our players don't play elite club level is disproven.
You don't think we showed fight? We had a good win against Turkey, got the result we needed against Paraguay quite comfortably (who went on to eliminate Germany) then matched Egypt and lost on Penalties and Egypt went on to give Argentina quite a fright. You are either very hard to please or you're allowing your dislike for the coach to cloud your judgement on what the players did.
 
Sorry but how was that disproven?
Because if a team like Cape Verde can show fight, then playing club football at elite level is not a pre-requisite to showing fight. Also, we have players who play in La Liga, Bundesliga, Championship, Eridivisie, Serie A, SPL...who also play in European competitions.

You don't think we showed fight? We had a good win against Turkey, got the result we needed against Paraguay quite comfortably (who went on to eliminate Germany) then matched Egypt and lost on Penalties and Egypt went on to give Argentina quite a fright. You are either very hard to please or you're allowing your dislike for the coach to cloud your judgement on what the players did.
No We didn't. Turkiye game aside, we were were so negative in the remaining games. We could have beat Paraguay but decided to be defensive and take it easy. Even Paraguay didn't try, so we thought, let's not also try. Egypt should have beat Argentina, we all know the drama there, let's not get into it. The point people are making is why are we settling for "we did well to get a draw" or "we lost to a team who lost to Argentina, so therefore, we did good".

NO!!! Why do we keep settling for middle of the road mediocrity. Did Cape Verde or DR Congo settle for middle of the road? No, they threw everything they had and came up just short. We could have beat USA and Paraguay and topped the group, not just settled for 2nd. Milligan said it best, “When are we as a nation and federation, going to decide who we are? When we qualify, is that just always going to be enough? What do we want moving forward"

Right now, that's what happening. People are just accepting that qualifying is good enough. So we are just there to make up the numbers. I'm not saying we would win, but at least give it a go. Also, I said this when we had Arnie too, so it's not a hate for the coach, but a hate for the mentality.
 
Because if a team like Cape Verde can show fight, then playing club football at elite level is not a pre-requisite to showing fight. Also, we have players who play in La Liga, Bundesliga, Championship, Eridivisie, Serie A, SPL...who also play in European competitions.


No We didn't. Turkiye game aside, we were were so negative in the remaining games. We could have beat Paraguay but decided to be defensive and take it easy. Even Paraguay didn't try, so we thought, let's not also try. Egypt should have beat Argentina, we all know the drama there, let's not get into it. The point people are making is why are we settling for "we did well to get a draw" or "we lost to a team who lost to Argentina, so therefore, we did good".

NO!!! Why do we keep settling for middle of the road mediocrity. Did Cape Verde or DR Congo settle for middle of the road? No, they threw everything they had and came up just short. We could have beat USA and Paraguay and topped the group, not just settled for 2nd. Milligan said it best, “When are we as a nation and federation, going to decide who we are? When we qualify, is that just always going to be enough? What do we want moving forward"

Right now, that's what happening. People are just accepting that qualifying is good enough. So we are just there to make up the numbers. I'm not saying we would win, but at least give it a go. Also, I said this when we had Arnie too, so it's not a hate for the coach, but a hate for the mentality.
I've said this before but you are really letting your dislike for Popovic cloud your judgement. I'm confident that at no point did the team decide that losing in the R32 was a good result and all of them were extremely disappointed that that happened. In hindsight we all look at the results and we can all see that the team didn't do as well as the 2022 squad which exceeded all our expectations. This team got 1 win, 1 loss and 2 draws against teams of similar ranking and ability, the loss being to a host nation. That's around a pass mark. Not great, but not a failure. I see no evidence to back up your claim that Popovic is accepting that qualifying is good enough. I see plenty to back up my theory that you dislike Popovic as a coach and it clouds your judgement.
 
I'm not sure what point you are trying to make here. I was responding to you saying we were not as high on the list of players playing at elite levels at club, and so our journey was a success.

I was simply saying that if a team like Cape Verde could take Argentina to where they did, then why couldn't we have shown more fight. The argument that our players don't play elite club level is disproven.
That point stands - about us having 4-6 players playing out of the 2550 at worldwide elite club level, that we did a good job. We only lost one gamefrom onfield play.

Every team we played was worth a lot more more than in Transfer Market value.

The Cape Verde point you made was the surprising strength of some perceived minnows, is the exception not the norm.

Aus showed fight, but were outclassed.

Netherlands threw the towel in against Morocco - disgraceful! Dutch heads dropped in extra time. Koeman played a 5-4-1 ultra defensive Partial Press with a very talented attacking team.
 
Its a good point you make about the shallow talent pool of players Australia has, and really always has.

TBH I think we over-rate our player quality. If they were as good as we think they are they would be succeeding better leagues

Its an eye-opener speaking to non-Australian as to how they view our players: competitive combative, fast strong, but technically low grade.

Yes there's the odd exception eg Bos, Vopato.

But then look at one current stalwart Behich. Failed in Holland which really is a second tier selling league anyway.and was sold in under a year, He had a decent career in Turkey, but that is behind him yet he's still in the squad because well who other than Bos is a better L full back?

I'm unsure about this to be fair. We fielded the youngest starting XI in the tournament. Most of our players are nowhere near their peak. I think where their career takes them is still to be determined, but signs are we have a very good young crop of players, who some are finding their way to the upper tiers of European club football.

From the reports I've been seeing from Aussie_Scout and others, I personally feel the talent pool is on the upward trajectory.

Not to say we have a Bellingham or a Yamal in our team, but the NT has been starved of quality for almost two decades. This is the first time I believe we are seeing our players find their way back to a high level. There were quite a few other young players slowly finding their feet in Europe as well that were not in the WC squad.

The result at the WC probably tracks well with where we are at as a team (ie loads of young potential). I think the style of play is probably what concerns most.
 
I've said this before but you are really letting your dislike for Popovic cloud your judgement. I'm confident that at no point did the team decide that losing in the R32 was a good result and all of them were extremely disappointed that that happened. In hindsight we all look at the results and we can all see that the team didn't do as well as the 2022 squad which exceeded all our expectations. This team got 1 win, 1 loss and 2 draws against teams of similar ranking and ability, the loss being to a host nation. That's around a pass mark. Not great, but not a failure. I see no evidence to back up your claim that Popovic is accepting that qualifying is good enough. I see plenty to back up my theory that you dislike Popovic as a coach and it clouds your judgement.
How many times do I have to say it. It's not a dislike for Popa, it's a dislike for the tactics. I said it on the podcast too. The same people out here calling for Milligan to be in the set up are the same ones disagreeing with what I said, even though Milligan is of the same viewpoint.

I never said that Popa is accepting that qualifying is good enough. I simply said, why can't we go to tournaments and be more attacking and with intent. We always go in and are passive and negative, and then we just go, "it's a success because no one expected us to win a game". So what. You play the situation in front of you. USA were beatable, Paraguay were beatable. Stop letting rankings dictate how a game should go because we saw so many games where rankings meant shit. This is my point. We look at a ranking and go, "oh, they are 20th and we are 25th -or something like that- so a draw is fair". No. It's been 20 years since the golden generation and we still don't have a clear identity or structure, and we still come out of every tournament going, "oh well, we tried, that's all you can do".
That point stands - about us having 4-6 players playing out of the 2550 at worldwide elite club level, that we did a good job. We only lost one gamefrom onfield play.

Every team we played was worth a lot more more than in Transfer Market value.

The Cape Verde point you made was the surprising strength of some perceived minnows, is the exception not the norm.

Aus showed fight, but were outclassed.

Netherlands threw the towel in against Morocco - disgraceful! Dutch heads dropped in extra time. Koeman played a 5-4-1 ultra defensive Partial Press with a very talented attacking team.
The point doesn't because what are you classing as elite level? If so, then not many teams fit that bill and therefore doesn't really back up your point because then the argument would be that majority of the teams don't have players at elite level and yet did the same or better. For example, Egypt has 3 players playing at elite level, yet beat us.
 
...

The result at the WC probably tracks well with where we are at as a team (ie loads of young potential). I think the style of play is probably what concerns most.

Largely - that is it. But my main point is more about the picking a squad that is capable of playing multiple ways. I like a pragmatic manager, you don't try to out tika-taka Spain like in 2014, you don't decide the only way to play is with three centre-backs (that is an option) as we did in 2026. I don't mind Australia being ultra-defensive when it needs to be - but it shouldn't be a default - either should all out attack.

You pick a squad that can play multiple ways against differing opponents and can adapt with injuries and suspension. To my mind being an ideologue in that way you is purely something that is a managers problem, not a quality of players problem.

Popovic picked some young players
like Beach, Herrington (that after their seasons any manager would have) and Volpato (who was finally landed but was already approached) and Okon-Englster (who if he was picked should have been as one of the front two in his box midfield where he defensive frailties don't get exposed as much). This is not mind blowing in refreshing the squad - that had already happened under Arnold.

Popovic also deserves credit for qualifying. But the suggestion that it wouldn't happen under Arnold is also ludicrous. Given Saudi Arabia's run we may well have gone through at the same time, then there were two other rounds.

Now look at the 2006 squad

Goalkeepers: Mark Schwarzer, Zeljko Kalac, Ante Covic
Defenders: Lucas Neill, Craig Moore, Tony Popovic, Stan Lazaridis, Michael Beauchamp, Mark Milligan
Midfielders: Tim Cahill, Brett Emerton, Vince Grella, Josip Skoko, Marco Bresciano, Jason Culina, Mile Sterjovski, Luke Wilkshire
Forwards: Mark Viduka (Captain), Harry Kewell, John Aloisi, Josh Kennedy, Archie Thompson

This squad is different in the obvious way - their quality

But more importantly it is a squad that can play a number of ways. You can play three at the back, you can play 4 at the back, you can throw caution to the wind like in the Japan win and overload the attack.

The point is that it is a squad picked for a tournament, not for a particularly way of playing, but to adapt to various scenarios.
 
@Zimbos. "Attacking intent" is vague and can mean different things.

For me the biggest attacking mistake Popovic made was isolating NI as a number 9. If NI played as a wide striker in a front three or as a second striker in a 442 then that would have fixed the issue of attacking intent.
 
I'm unsure about this to be fair. We fielded the youngest starting XI in the tournament. Most of our players are nowhere near their peak. I think where their career takes them is still to be determined, but signs are we have a very good young crop of players, who some are finding their way to the upper tiers of European club football.

From the reports I've been seeing from Aussie_Scout and others, I personally feel the talent pool is on the upward trajectory.

Not to say we have a Bellingham or a Yamal in our team, but the NT has been starved of quality for almost two decades. This is the first time I believe we are seeing our players find their way back to a high level. There were quite a few other young players slowly finding their feet in Europe as well that were not in the WC squad.

The result at the WC probably tracks well with where we are at as a team (ie loads of young potential). I think the style of play is probably what concerns most.

Yes but that's what Popovic had to work with right now. In 2-4 years they might be better
 
@Zimbos. "Attacking intent" is vague and can mean different things.

For me the biggest attacking mistake Popovic made was isolating NI as a number 9. If NI played as a wide striker in a front three or as a second striker in a 442 then that would have fixed the issue of attacking intent.
I don't really think so. If you are sitting deep in your half, then I'd say it's pretty clear you have no attacking intent.

Also, your point about isolating the number 9 would suggest very little attacking intent.

I'm not asking for Pep style football. I'm simply on the same wavelength as Milligan. I've been saying it since Arnie, and even at times during Ange's reign. When are we going to take that next step? Why can't we be the top team in Asia? Why can't we go to World Cups to seriously challenge, not just make par? We had a really good chance to do that this world cup, and he just didn't try.
 
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