Poppa Out

[patjennings]

Milligan got the best out of Max Burgess when no other coach could, he is well worth the punt if he can do the same with some of the other Newy signings.

It could go horribly wrong though, not the same time to work with a national team vs club football which in my opinion is the biggest risk with possession coaches.

Shit - anyone could have done that - he always had the skill. He did well at Western United when given a go. He was obviously on the outer at Sydney so no points from Millsy for that

 

[vincenzogold]

Shit - anyone could have done that - he always had the skill. He did well at Western United when given a go. He was obviously on the outer at Sydney so no points from Millsy for that

You could say that about the current Socceroos squad and Poppa

 

[Alex M]

As oxymoronic as this will sound, IMHO both your take and Verrelli’s are true at once to their respective extents.

I think the view that Popovic is holding back our boys from performing at the level they are capable of isn't grounded in fact. If it were our boys would be performing at that high level week in week out for their clubs. I agree with the view that Popovic is a defensive and conservative coach and if our younger players develop like I hope they will that he may not be the right person to lead us for the next World Cup campaign. If we stick with Popovic, we need to find him some assistants that will help the team develop tactics and systems that help them more with the attacking phase of the game. We also have to hope that Popovic listens to them. It's probably more important that our players work on their week to week club football rather than just hire a different coach. When our players get better the results at national team level will come.

 

[DandyCasey]

Shit - anyone could have done that - he always had the skill. He did well at Western United when given a go. He was obviously on the outer at Sydney so no points from Millsy for that

I always thought he was inconsistent? regardless playing him at number 6 proved to be genius.

 

[patjennings]

I think the view that Popovic is holding back our boys from performing at the level they are capable of isn't grounded in fact. If it were our boys would be performing at that high level week in week out for their clubs. I agree with the view that Popovic is a defensive and conservative coach and if our younger players develop like I hope they will that he may not be the right person to lead us for the next World Cup campaign. If we stick with Popovic, we need to find him some assistants that will help the team develop tactics and systems that help them more with the attacking phase of the game. We also have to hope that Popovic listens to them. It's probably more important that our players work on their week to week club football rather than just hire a different coach. When our players get better the results at national team level will come.

Calling it now. While I agree with your I initial premise Popovic cannot take us to the next level and to honest his assistants at all levels have been there to implement his ways. I doubt more progressive assistants would even be considered.

 

[vincenzogold]

I think the view that Popovic is holding back our boys from performing at the level they are capable of isn't grounded in fact. If it were our boys would be performing at that high level week in week out for their clubs. I agree with the view that Popovic is a defensive and conservative coach and if our younger players develop like I hope they will that he may not be the right person to lead us for the next World Cup campaign. If we stick with Popovic, we need to find him some assistants that will help the team develop tactics and systems that help them more with the attacking phase of the game. We also have to hope that Popovic listens to them. It's probably more important that our players work on their week to week club football rather than just hire a different coach. When our players get better the results at national team level will come.

I actually didn't think he was that bad. His substutions were terrible and not putting Irankunda out wide where he can do damage really stuffed us up but regarding the way we played he was defensive yes but he also had us playing football along the ground and quickly in transition which was great and suits the players we had.

 

[patjennings]

I always thought he was inconsistent? regardless playing him at number 6 proved to be genius.

I thought the inconsistency was the managers. One season at Western a goal or an assist around every 100 mins. Next two seasons not much game time.

 

[Alex M]

Calling it now. While I agree with your I initial premise Popovic cannot take us to the next level and to honest his assistants at all levels have been there to implement his ways. I doubt more progressive assistants would even be considered.

You're probably right about that, which is why I added the bit about Popovic having to listen to them if one were appointed.

 

[Quicky]

One school of thought from this thread is that we just don't currently have the cattle to successfully play a more attacking style of football. That this is reflected by the clubs our players play at.

To those that support that view:

Are you happy with how things are being managed and progressing under Popovic?

Is there anything that you would change about how we play? What would that be?

Is there anything you would change about how the team is managed? What would that be?

Do you think this team has reached it's ceiling?

Limit this to the National Team set-up

 

[Alex M]

One school of thought from this thread is that we just don't currently have the cattle to successfully play a more attacking style of football. That this is reflected by the clubs our players play at.

To those that support that view:

Are you happy with how things are being managed and progressing under Popovic?

Is there anything that you would change about how we play? What would that be?

Is there anything you would change about how the team is managed? What would that be?

Do you think this team has reached it's ceiling?

Limit this to the National Team set-up

Happy so far.

Have a few more triggers that lead us to press when we lose possession rather than the current rush back to defensive formation 95% of the time

I'm probably not qualified to say as I don't have first hand knowledge of how the team is managed (assuming your talking about player management here)

No. For the first time in a while I think we have several young players with the potential to grow into top class footballers and a hope that a lot of them do. In the past we really only have ever had one or two at a time.

 

[patjennings]

These two posts are from another thread. The first bit looks at setting up defensively but not being 100% of your offside trap.


Really doesn't matter - he did it against Switzerland where he and Behich didn't keep the offside trap. The step back is always going to be a problem and I think if Italiano did he was very close.

But the problem remains - we set up defensively and you need to be absolutely perfect every time as you won't be scoring many. In 2 out of 3 games we made simple coachable errors against Switzerland and the US.

We use an defensive box midfield in front of a back 3. Look at Manchester City. They use the same box midfield offensively with a back 4. One full back will bomb forward to make a sliding back three - but never both.

It asks a lot of your full backs but Bos, Miller, Italiano, Bennie, Farrell and even Metcalfe all have big engines. There box midfield supports Haaland, ours isolated Irankunda and Toure.

 

[patjennings]

This one expands on the box midfield and how it can be used offensively to support your strikers - I have Bos on the right but he could be on the left with another on the right

Expanding on the city comment above. This formation is intended to help you support the strikers rather than isolate them. does have some defensive problems when losing possession. Note that Rowles is starting - I'd prefer Herrington but don't know about his ability to play a LB role.

Out of possession


-------------Irankunda------Touré

---------McGree---------------- Volpato

------------- O'Neill------Robertson

--Rowles-----Circati------Souttar-----Bos

-------------------Beach------------------


In Possession

------------------------------------ Touré (ST)

McGree (LW) Irankunda (LAM) Volpato (RAM) Bos (RW)
\__________________________________________________________/
The Front 4

O'Neill Robertson
\_______________________/
The Double Pivot (2)

Rowles Souttar Circati
\____________________________________/
The Pure Back 3 (3)

------------------------------Beach------------------

 

[patjennings]

Notice I didn't use Okon jr as one of the pivots - I think he sits better as a creative force with Volpato or McGree. He was lauded about one assist in the World cup but the primary job there was as a HM were he paled against O'Neill.

 

[grazorblade]

One school of thought from this thread is that we just don't currently have the cattle to successfully play a more attacking style of football. That this is reflected by the clubs our players play at.

To those that support that view:

Are you happy with how things are being managed and progressing under Popovic?

Is there anything that you would change about how we play? What would that be?

Is there anything you would change about how the team is managed? What would that be?

Do you think this team has reached it's ceiling?

Limit this to the National Team set-up

1) more yes than no. I dont think anyone can look st poppas tenure and not see mistakes. Sega and triantis, no backup rwb, starting nish and leckie, subbing on the weakest pen saver and not giving them enough notice. But i think poppa is still coaching above our level. I preferred arnie who could be more attacking or defensive depending on the game. The problem is our pool of coaches is thin and every option we have that has had consistent success in the a league has only 1 style. I think foreign coach for the same money would be a step back. So in summary i think we have a coach which is above our current level and we dont have a lot of options to improve

2) absent another flexible coach like arnie id like to see our 3 paths to goal improve. Most goals are coming from counter attacks. We have produced dangerous moments in pressing triggers (particularly against saudi at home) and our set pieces need to improve. Im open to changing our set piece coach. Is it jedi? Didnt he have trouble with set pieces in the epl?

3) no where near our ceiling. If nothing changes in our pathways we hit our ceiling when 8 birth years playing at a higher level are at an age where they can perform at their peak. We are producing better players starting bos's year in 2002 and players these days decline at 32ish. So we will hit our peak in 2034

 

[jas88]

I get wanting to be the next Norway or Japan or Cape Verde but shouldn't we aim higher? We are a sporting nation.

We should be trying to replicate the Spanish our cost of living and general lifestyle is similar. Yet they produce unbelievable talent and play a style that entertains.

We can clearly develop defenders, I think if we start developing decent midfidlers the strikers will come.

 

[onedaywinners...]

I get wanting to be the next Norway or Japan or Cape Verde but shouldn't we aim higher? We are a sporting nation.

We should be trying to replicate the Spanish our cost of living and general lifestyle is similar. Yet they produce unbelievable talent and play a style that entertains.

We can clearly develop defenders, I think if we start developing decent midfidlers the strikers will come.

100% good sir!

I mean there is an 18 year old centre back that is a product of the Australian football system that is legitimately wanted by Barcelona! This is beyond massive and seems to be representative of a broader cohort of players coming through.

Many of them have just rubbed shoulders with greats of the game and already the discourse about the game here tells me that in those two simple moments of devastating beauty that were the goals scored by Nestor and Connor, football in this country was again changed forever.

The issues and challenges faced with the game mirrors the challenges faced across all parts of life, but if there is one thing that looks promising it is the future of Australian football on the pitch. We all know that this talent seems different.

These kids just want to go out onto the park and score some goals with their mates for their country - just like Connor said after his goal, and Mo and Nestor and Jordy...Lucas...Ale..I mean they are all calm level headed guys who being positive seems more natural than Popa's coronary inducing hard nosed football.

Sorry about the ramble...but it's gonna happen. No one can stop it. People go crazy for the moments of this sport and this group have the makings of our best era of football ever.

 

[Quicky]

1) more yes than no. I dont think anyone can look st poppas tenure and not see mistakes. Sega and triantis, no backup rwb, starting nish and leckie, subbing on the weakest pen saver and not giving them enough notice. But i think poppa is still coaching above our level. I preferred arnie who could be more attacking or defensive depending on the game. The problem is our pool of coaches is thin and every option we have that has had consistent success in the a league has only 1 style. I think foreign coach for the same money would be a step back. So in summary i think we have a coach which is above our current level and we dont have a lot of options to improve

2) absent another flexible coach like arnie id like to see our 3 paths to goal improve. Most goals are coming from counter attacks. We have produced dangerous moments in pressing triggers (particularly against saudi at home) and our set pieces need to improve. Im open to changing our set piece coach. Is it jedi? Didnt he have trouble with set pieces in the epl?

3) no where near our ceiling. If nothing changes in our pathways we hit our ceiling when 8 birth years playing at a higher level are at an age where they can perform at their peak. We are producing better players starting bos's year in 2002 and players these days decline at 32ish. So we will hit our peak in 2034

Are you confident we will see our avenues to goal improve under Popovic?

I think those 3 areas you describe: Pressing, counter-attacks and set-pieces are the big watches for Popovic leading into and at the Asian Cup. We need to do better there. I agree with all those.

Some of my dismay with this team is because I don't have confidence we will see that adjustment with Popovic.

Popovic should have more freedom at the Asian Cup so I hope I'm wrong.

I'll add another one here. Tactical flexibility that is opponent or game situation based. Blow the dust off the 4-3-3/4-5-1 he used at Victory when the situation calls for it perhaps. Whatever he comes up with but some flexibility beyond player selection.

The Triantis/Segecic situation still makes me bristle but I think he is treating the dual national situation with a bit more seriousness and sensitivity than when he started. Which is an evoltion of sorts.

 

[Quicky]

Happy so far.

Have a few more triggers that lead us to press when we lose possession rather than the current rush back to defensive formation 95% of the time

I'm probably not qualified to say as I don't have first hand knowledge of how the team is managed (assuming your talking about player management here)

No. For the first time in a while I think we have several young players with the potential to grow into top class footballers and a hope that a lot of them do. In the past we really only have ever had one or two at a time.

Pressing triggers I agree. With Toure and Irankunda we have the pace to cause some havoc if we press more effectively.

By management I mean anything not related to game tactics, formation etc.

Stuff like squad selection, injury management, dual national management etc.

 

[Quicky]

I get wanting to be the next Norway or Japan or Cape Verde but shouldn't we aim higher? We are a sporting nation.

We should be trying to replicate the Spanish our cost of living and general lifestyle is similar. Yet they produce unbelievable talent and play a style that entertains.

We can clearly develop defenders, I think if we start developing decent midfidlers the strikers will come.

I wonder what Switzerland are doing right?

 

[grazorblade]

Are you confident we will see our avenues to goal improve under Popovic?

I think those 3 areas you describe: Pressing, counter-attacks and set-pieces are the big watches for Popovic leading into and at the Asian Cup. We need to do better there. I agree with all those.

Some of my dismay with this team is because I don't have confidence we will see that adjustment with Popovic.

Popovic should have more freedom at the Asian Cup so I hope I'm wrong.

I'll add another one here. Tactical flexibility that is opponent or game situation based. Blow the dust off the 4-3-3/4-5-1 he used at Victory when the situation calls for it perhaps. Whatever he comes up with but some flexibility beyond player selection.

The Triantis/Segecic situation still makes me bristle but I think he is treating the dual national situation with a bit more seriousness and sensitivity than when he started. Which is an evoltion of sorts.

Not confident

Set pieces could be improved by changing assitants. Counter press, maybe its a time thing. Our best front three is irankunda toure and volpato who dont know the press. If u put metcalf and mcgree in the front three with duke (no long possible) you blunt our counter attack but get the press better. If irankubda makes better decisions in defense, he is our best defender when he gets to situations he can attack. I suspect this is the part of the game that improves the most

Maybe he pulls out a different way of playing? Im pessimistic, so far it has just been adding elements to plan a.

On sega/triantis one concern i have is the new coach starts from square one with their dual national game. Either way we should change coach before wcq starts. We saw with arnie that coaches burn out in the job over 2 cycles