Poppa Out

[LFC]

I think this thread reared its ugly head because of the fallout with the USA game.

The stats posted by football360, albeit from a very small sample size (2 games), doesn't make for good reading.

I'd say most fare minded people would say we are too far on the defensive end of the spectrum where it is stifling our attacking options whilst also limiting our potential. The same can be said if we are too far in the other direction where our backline would be all too often exposed.

People want balance and a manager who can see different phases of game state and be able to respond to it/change something rather than keep doing the same old trick, which most of the time gets found out by elite level managers.

Its the double edged sword though eh.
Comparing tournament football to say regular club H/A - chalk and cheese right.
Trouble is WC barring the Grp stage is russian roulette and your judged harshly but this is playing big tournament take no prisomners football.
Some coaches are too conservative and I get why - why, because your afraid getting ripped to pieces and your lacking in player ability let confidence OR your just limiting the damage likely to cop.
Like going to a gun fight with a fork.
Welcome to the dance floor........
2 games, those stats are damming and rightly so we all have watched it transpire.
I sooner die going all in giving it a go - yes balanced the best you can but you GOT to stick your neck out sometimes no ?
As ol whiskey nose used to say :
"Attack wins you games, defense wins titles."
Out of 48 we are just off the bottom of 4 disciplines that win the game.
Them's the facts as harsh as it is reality hurts.
Hopefully the tables turn next game and we go after a game instead of manage it for 90mins within reason.

 

[Cunningstunt]

Its the double edged sword though eh.
Comparing tournament football to say regular club H/A - chalk and cheese right.
Trouble is WC barring the Grp stage is russian roulette and your judged harshly but this is playing big tournament take no prisomners football.
Some coaches are too conservative and I get why - why, because your afraid getting ripped to pieces and your lacking in player ability let confidence OR your just limiting the damage likely to cop.
Like going to a gun fight with a fork.
Welcome to the dance floor........
2 games, those stats are damming and rightly so we all have watched it transpire.
I sooner die going all in giving it a go - yes balanced the best you can but you GOT to stick your neck out sometimes no ?
As ol whiskey nose used to say :
"Attack wins you games, defense wins titles."
Out of 48 we are just off the bottom of 4 disciplines that win the game.
Them's the facts as harsh as it is reality hurts.
Hopefully the tables turn next game and we go after a game instead of manage it for 90mins within reason.

Even the group stage is Russian roulette. It's why football does not usually run grand finals in the way other sports do. Also why we shouldn't get excited by the Turkey win or by the US loss when thinking about who should take us forward. We need to look at the body of work from Popa and think about if this is what we want moving forward. A few good results here, similar to Arnold in 22, doesn't change what he is delivering overall.

If by 'viable' you mean affordable, then yeah there’s no disputing that.

On merit though? I can’t agree.

Even among the affordable options the FA got it wrong. Post the Iran disaster with Venebles and not qualifying for France 98, there was no money. Farina won the comp in 98 (?) so was given the Socceroos, Ange was given the junior teams.

 

[LFC]

yep Grp stage is roulette but you do have chances depending on results, plus 3rd gets in as well.

 

[patjennings]

It's all a bit premature, isn't it? Poppa gets a draw against Paraguay and he's one step away from equalling our best ever finish.

I don't love his mindset to be honest but on the plus side he's been brave and achieved a level of player exposure and renewal we haven't seen in a very long time. I think he's deeply pragmatic. He wants to be in total tactical control which could explain some timidity in first halves. Perhaps players being more focussed on not messing up than getting on the front foot.

Whatever happens next, I think it's a retrograde step to be looking for overseas managers. It's been a long time since Cranky Franky was the default pick because Soccer Australia was broke. Lots of Australian coaches are emerging as viable options.

Not really - if we win a R32 we get to top 16 but realistically that's where we end. At the Asian Cup assuming we win our group and Japan win their group we play them in the QF and probably drop out there. So 20 years on same-same we repeat the 2006- 2007 cycle

 

[LFC]

Not really - if we win a R32 we get to top 16 but realistically that's where we end. At the Asian Cup assuming we win our group and Japan win their group we play them in the QF and probably drop out there. So 20 years on same-same we repeat the 2006- 2007 cycle

so our 20yr plan is off track great ceasors ghost.

 

[patjennings]

so our 20yr plan is off track great ceasors ghost.

also the same as the 4 year plan - except put in Sth Korea instead of Japan

 

[LFC]

also the same as the 4 year plan - except put in Sth Korea instead of Japan

its staggering eh - reminds me of a movie we know way back like The Time Machine.

 

[zimbos05]

We need to realistic about where the game is. This is the same problem as to why there isn't the journalists to do all the reporting and hold people to account. The game in Australian cannot sustain it. It cannot afford a foreign national team coach anyone has ever heard of, and it cannot support more full time journalists covering the sport.

It seems almost certain we would get a worse foreign coach if we are spending the same money. Australian coaches get more prestige and have more invested in coaching us, you don't need to price in the cost of someone upending their life to move abroad, the Aleague struggling means the NT job is going to be a relatively high paying job available in Australia, and Australian's are undervalued in football globally. Meaning you get better quality for less money.

Popa/Arnie the Germans would cost 50% more. In 2007 they were paying Pim more than Arnie/Popa are earning now. He had the GG and didn't achieve anything more. Wanting a foreign coach might still be worth it in some circumstances, but unless you are spending a lot more (not possible), trust FA to find a hidden, undervalued gem (not possible), you almost certainly need to be content with someone who is worse.

I'm not really a fan of this idea. If other nations are paying the same we are for managers, why can't we attract a known coach then? We can offer the pay packet, the lifestyle, the ability to be based in Europe for a fair bit of time (if they are European), so why shouldn't we be thinking bigger picture.

Pochettino said that when he went to the USA, he had to change their mentality and their ethos. He has done that, and look at them now. Not saying they are going to win the comp, but they are a much better side for it. It we bring in the right manager and are willing to work with them to utilise their knowledge and skills, we can create a generational pathway and structure that goes from the age groups all the way through to the top team.

Pim was mostly hired because he was Guus assistant. He was never the right guy for the job. In saying that, we had that period of Arnie stinking things up before Pim came in, so that didn't really help. We often speak of how football is the most participated sport in the country, so what are we doing to turn that into progress and generational growth? If we keep having this mentality that we need to settle for what we have and be the battlers, then we'll not really progress anywhere with it.

 

[BA81]

If other nations are paying the same we are for managers, why can't we attract a known coach then? We can offer the pay packet, the lifestyle, the ability to be based in Europe for a fair bit of time (if they are European), so why shouldn't we be thinking bigger picture.

Pochettino said that when he went to the USA, he had to change their mentality and their ethos. He has done that, and look at them now. Not saying they are going to win the comp, but they are a much better side for it. It we bring it the right manager and are willing to work with them to utilise their knowledge and skills, we can create a generational pathway and structure that goes from the age groups all the way through to the topic team.

% agree.

we had that period of Arnie stinking things up before Pim came in, so that didn't really help.

And it cost us the 2007 Asian Cup which despite the conditions and what bit of hubris there surely was on our part, I felt then as now was definitely winnable under a better coach than Arnie was at the time(let alone is now).

 

[zimbos05]

And it cost us the 2007 Asian Cup which despite the conditions and what bit of hubris there surely was on our part, I felt then as now was definitely winnable under a better coach than Arnie was at the time(let alone is now).

Fully agree. We really could have won the 2007 Asia Cup with the side we had. We wasted that opportunity by giving it to Arnie and going from Guus no fear football, to the dread that Arnie provides.

 

[Cunningstunt]

I'm not really a fan of this idea. If other nations are paying the same we are for managers, why can't we attract a known coach then? We can offer the pay packet, the lifestyle, the ability to be based in Europe for a fair bit of time (if they are European), so why shouldn't we be thinking bigger picture.

Pochettino said that when he went to the USA, he had to change their mentality and their ethos. He has done that, and look at them now. Not saying they are going to win the comp, but they are a much better side for it. It we bring in the right manager and are willing to work with them to utilise their knowledge and skills, we can create a generational pathway and structure that goes from the age groups all the way through to the top team.

Pim was mostly hired because he was Guus assistant. He was never the right guy for the job. In saying that, we had that period of Arnie stinking things up before Pim came in, so that didn't really help. We often speak of how football is the most participated sport in the country, so what are we doing to turn that into progress and generational growth? If we keep having this mentality that we need to settle for what we have and be the battlers, then we'll not really progress anywhere with it.

I agree with what you say outside of the finances. We can't offer the pay packet. Other nations aren't paying the same as we are. We can only offer less. Poch is on $6 million USD. Probably in the region of four times what we are paying.

 

[Punchanello]

Not really - if we win a R32 we get to top 16 but realistically that's where we end. At the Asian Cup assuming we win our group and Japan win their group we play them in the QF and probably drop out there. So 20 years on same-same we repeat the 2006- 2007 cycle

So we sack Poppa now based on readings from a crystal ball? I'd love to see the business case for this. I'm sorry, but Australia is not a top 16 country in football so a round of 16 birth is a success. Demanding more before we even see how this team evolves is knee jerk at this point.

I'm not a fan of Poppa to be honest but I've seen plenty of exceptional teams built by managers who had been written off prematurely. Particularly sides as young as this one.

 

[zimbos05]

I'm not a fan of Poppa to be honest but I've seen plenty of exceptional teams built by managers who had been written off prematurely. Particularly sides as young as this one.

The main difference here is that you see what the manager is trying to do and you can see where they are going. With Poppa we have seen what he is trying to do, but where is trying to go does not look promising. If we are saying we expect to be out at the Quarter of the Asia Cup, that to me is a failure. Why are we settling for 8th in Asia when we should consistently be Top 4.

 

[riquelmes_laces]

So we sack Poppa now based on readings from a crystal ball? I'd love to see the business case for this. I'm sorry, but Australia is not a top 16 country in football so a round of 16 birth is a success. Demanding more before we even see how this team evolves is knee jerk at this point.

I'm not a fan of Poppa to be honest but I've seen plenty of exceptional teams built by managers who had been written off prematurely. Particularly sides as young as this one.

A round of 16 birth requires us to probably win the next two games, doesn't it?

So a loss in the round of 32 is a failure then?