Green & Gold FC podcast

[grazorblade]

There was a bit edited out there.

Thankfully, some waffle I made disappeared I made in response to Grazor's wife being an American trained teacher, which was quite prescriptive, compared to Aus and Kiwi teachers being used to utilise resources and being equipped to teach heuristically.

Another bit that was edited, was I compiled a response about how the FFA NC, was predicated around the Game Analysis Proforma of matches played.

This was:

*To identify the football problems occurring in the game by?
Where?
When?
Who?
What?
Why?
How?

*The four man moments of the game. Ball Possession, Defensive Transition, Ball Possession Opposition, Attacking Transition.

*The three stage and four stage training ground practices that ensue to rectify the football problems identified in the game analysis proforma.

I understand that a lot of this is highly technical , cerebral, complex, jargonistic, but is now an important component of the highly advanced coaching that Aus coaches now have access to. Prior to 2007 they had quite simplistic coach education.

* I think I also set out the newer Aus coaching pathways:
-Community Coaching Pathway
Grassroots Certificate.
Junior Certificate
Youth Certificate
Senior Licence

-Advanced Coaching Pathway
C Licence
B Licence
A Licence
Pro Licence

yeah sorry I had to get it under 60minutes and barely got there lol, so it was tricky choosing what to cut

 

[BA81]

Actually good editing.

At the time, it seemed like Grazor's questions from naysayers of the NC, seemed like a small portion of the Podcast.

Whoever, devised the questions, whether it was just Grazor, or whomever else was involved, they were very good.

It was a pleasure meeting Danny - and - seeing Grazor again, live, after not seeing him for 12 years in person!

Hold up, you're Jon Price

 

[grazorblade]

Hold up, you're Jon Price

Yep, wanted him on to hear his perspective since he has been advocating for the ntc for years very passoonately

I gave my own views which tries to reconcile the need to modernize, the need to educate coaches with the faolures of implementation (costs, inflexibility, too much jargon, lack of access etc) and came to the conclusion that the issue is too much centralization

 

[Decentric]

Hold up, you're Jon Price

Yes.

I was in the FFA coaching system for a while.

Danny, the other guy on the Podcast who has been a Melb Vic youth coach, and many other coaches who have posted on forums, don’t seem to be aware of the tenets of the MC - and - why Aus adopted the pathway it has. Danny said during the Podcast it provided a lot more clarity.

It has also been made abundantly clear any national curriculum needs updating regularly. Trends in football keep evolving.

 

[Decentric]

One of the things that Grazor hit on, and he has quite a good understanding of the highly technical and cerebral NC for someone who hasn't been involved in the Aus coaching system to semi-pro level, is that stuff we've used for years may seem so highly technical and jargonistic to the average fan.

Grazor is a smart bloke, being a physics Prof, but if he is saying the NC is cerebral, technical and jargonistic, it must be.

 

[Monoethnic Social Club]

Hold up, you're Jon Price

The milieu is growing.

 

[BA81]

My take on the NC situation is that well-intentioned though the KNVB-adherence might’ve been, we did throw out the baby w/the bathwater(an analogy Les Scheinflug himself once used in an interview on this issue) in not retaining aspects of the methodologies/practices used by the post-WW2 migrant-communities; methodologies which pointedly resulted in us qualifying for the ‘74 WC, the inception of the NSL and then the Golden Generation further down the track.

It’s been suggested by some that one of the failings of ‘old-sokkah’ was the alleged lack of methodological cross-pollination bc the individual communities believed that their own way was the best. I can’t speak to how true that was across the board(maybe in isolated instances here&there), but it’s an intriguing hypothesis for whatever it’s worth.

 

[Monoethnic Social Club]

My take on the NC situation is that well-intentioned though the KNVB-adherence might’ve been, we did throw out the baby w/the bathwater(an analogy Les Scheinflug himself once used in an interview on this issue) in not retaining aspects of the methodologies/practices used by the post-WW2 migrant-communities; methodologies which pointedly resulted in us qualifying for the ‘74 WC, the inception of the NSL and then the Golden Generation further down the track.

It’s been suggested by some that one of the failings of ‘old-sokkah’ was the alleged lack of methodological cross-pollination bc the individual communities believed that their own way was the best. I can’t speak to how true that was across the board(maybe in isolated instances here&there), but it’s an intriguing hypothesis for whatever it’s worth.

ANOTHER failing may be that after nearly 20 years the current realisation is that its more desirable for each "Academy" to generate their own coaching methodology rather than adhere to a one size fits all model... Housebreaking stuff eh?.

 

[Decentric]

My take on the NC situation is that well-intentioned though the KNVB-adherence might’ve been, we did throw out the baby w/the bathwater(an analogy Les Scheinflug himself once used in an interview on this issue) in not retaining aspects of the methodologies/practices used by the post-WW2 migrant-communities; methodologies which pointedly resulted in us qualifying for the ‘74 WC, the inception of the NSL and then the Golden Generation further down the track.

It’s been suggested by some that one of the failings of ‘old-sokkah’ was the alleged lack of methodological cross-pollination bc the individual communities believed that their own way was the best. I can’t speak to how true that was across the board(maybe in isolated instances here&there), but it’s an intriguing hypothesis for whatever it’s worth.

Don’t forget Les is speaking from the perspective of 32 years of failure to qualify for senior World Cups in Aus. It was no coincidence.

There was no implementation by Ron Smith, Raul Blanco and Les of any NC to be applied Auswide.

What we learned in Soccer Aus coach education pre 2008 was very little compared to the post Baan/ Berger/Abrahms era.

 

[Decentric]

ANOTHER failing may be that after nearly 20 years the current realisation is that its more desirable for each "Academy" to generate their own coaching methodology rather than adhere to a one size fits all model... Housebreaking stuff eh?.

Wrong.

An ad hoc approach ensues.

Powerhouses have holistic systems and NCs, as guidelines to all. Exemplified in Germany, France, Netherlands, Belgium, Denmark, Spain.

 

[patjennings]

Don’t forget Les is speaking from the perspective of 32 years of failure to qualify for senior World Cups in Aus. It was no coincidence.

There was no implementation by Ron Smith, Raul Blanco and Les of any NC to be applied Auswide.

What we learned in Soccer Aus coach education pre 2008 was very little compared to the post Baan/ Berger/Abrahms era.

While I agree with what you are saying I think the point you made earlier that the NC should be constantly under review. At least I think it was you.

 

[Decentric]

While I agree with what you are saying I think the point you made earlier that the NC should be constantly under review. At least I think it was you.

It is me. I’m out of the loop now and don’t know if and how the updates are occurring?

Danny didn’t either. I was shocked that he didn’t know WHY the NC was implemented?

Heaps of coaches who’ve posted on here don’t know either.

 

[Monoethnic Social Club]

Wrong.

An ad hoc approach ensues.

Powerhouses have holistic systems and NCs, as guidelines to all. Exemplified in Germany, France, Netherlands, Belgium, Denmark, Spain.

You can die on that hill all you like old man, fact is that this is JUST your OPINION... If you consider Netherlands , Belgium and Denmark powerhouses compared to the likes of countries WITHOUT a national restricted formulaic way of coaching then that is your issue, NOT reality.

 

[Decentric]

You can die on that hill all you like old man, fact is that this is JUST your OPINION... If you consider Netherlands , Belgium and Denmark powerhouses compared to the likes of countries WITHOUT a national restricted formulaic way of coaching then that is your issue, NOT reality.

It is an opinion - backed up by sound tenets.

If you think that a NC based on Spain ( Barca Acad), KNVB, French Clairefontane, etc, is rubbish, what do you propose as an alternative?

You do realise these are world leaders in football, Mono?

You, and other naysayers, can’t propose a sound alternative.

Azerbaijan football curriculum?

 

[LFC]

While I agree with what you are saying I think the point you made earlier that the NC should be constantly under review. At least I think it was you.

yep very valid point made about changing or tweaking systems as time moves on.......same applies about Fed/State Gov policies of the past but we won't go there.
Despite the negative outlook between '74 to '02 footballs real problem was many not just about lacking a sound curriculum.
A country that was against the game, a struggling ASF/infighting - hindsight is wonderful and very easy to banter/brag post NSL we've have qualified for 6odd WC's having isolated the game below for 20+yrs.
Imagine if it wasn't and moving forward with the Bergers etcetc.......

Good pod to listen to fellas, I felt justified my observations for years being at the grounds watching kids being coached out of their individual brilliance/ability to play to the system.

 

[Keeper66]

While I agree with what you are saying I think the point you made earlier that the NC should be constantly under review. At least I think it was you.

I think a failing of the current NC is that it doesn’t appear to me to have been updated, and maybe not even reviewed in any depth, for maybe 10 years. The documents I see still seem to be based around how football was played at the 2010 World Cup. Football constantly evolves, so if we are going to have an NC worth its salt then it must be under a system of constant review and being changed as required.

While 2010 does not seem that long ago to me, for a 20- or early 30-something person in the coach development system the 2010 WC probably seems like half a lifetime ago when they were at primary school or a teenager. So the current NC runs the risk of appearing to be out of date at the least. Coach education not only needs to revolve around current concepts and thinking, it also needs to be seen to revolve around that as well.

It seems to me that FA has almost forgotten about its role in managing the NC. Possibly not surprising, as from the outside it looks to me that FA is becoming more and more dysfunctional.

 

[ashtongate]

Many factors were responsible for our so called 32 years of failure- not solely down to a lack of national curriculum.

Take your coach's goggles off, decentric. Nobody here rarely cares about your much vaunted coaching certificates now.

Main factor was that soccer was a marginalised sport in this country, despised by the mainstream.

 

[theFOOTBALLlover]

Kelly Cross, who helped write the NC, doesn't implement it at Sydney FC. I was there in 2022 and saw it for myself. I work with several Sydney FC players 5 days a week and they told me training hasn't changed except now they train up to 4 days a week plus game day.

 

[Decentric]

Kelly Cross, who helped write the NC, doesn't implement it at Sydney FC. I was there in 2022 and saw it for myself. I work with several Sydney FC players 5 days a week and they told me training hasn't changed except now they train up to 4 days a week plus game day.

KC was part of the old regime and just managed to stay in with the new.

He was around Ad Derkson and Arie Schans when Rob Baan brought them to Aus to train AL youth coaches, and, some youth coaches from the regions.

KC barely muttered a word over the two week course. He was in awe of them - after previously being a key figure in the Soccer Australia Tech Dept.

KC didn’t write the NC at all. He wrote up the drafted notes accrued by the 13 FFA coaches who traversed the world gaining the NC content. He might have put it into education modules to make it ‘course friendly’ as a former teacher though. In this KC did a good job.

 

[Decentric]

I think a failing of the current NC is that it doesn’t appear to me to have been updated, and maybe not even reviewed in any depth, for maybe 10 years. The documents I see still seem to be based around how football was played at the 2010 World Cup. Football constantly evolves, so if we are going to have an NC worth its salt then it must be under a system of constant review and being changed as required.

While 2010 does not seem that long ago to me, for a 20- or early 30-something person in the coach development system the 2010 WC probably seems like half a lifetime ago when they were at primary school or a teenager. So the current NC runs the risk of appearing to be out of date at the least. Coach education not only needs to revolve around current concepts and thinking, it also needs to be seen to revolve around that as well.

It seems to me that FA has almost forgotten about its role in managing the NC. Possibly not surprising, as from the outside it looks to me that FA is becoming more and more dysfunctional.

Danny wasn’t sure how it has been updated ?

I’m not sure either ATM?

If it has been I’m not sure who has done it?

Drew Sherman?

I’m tempted to attend a current National Conference to find out?

Every key stakeholder involved initially, set out it is imperative national curricula need to be constantly updated.