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Capitalism when it's gone off the rails.

tsf said:
Its funny when anti-socialists claim to be Aussie loving capitalists but list all the things that are great about here are basically socialist ideas

medicare, hospitals, education, housing, fire brigade, transport, government services, fark, even cleaning the streets

If they could ever marry anarchism with the good parts of capitalism...you've got something
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Never understood how you could have NO government implementing government wealfare programs? Your utopia could never work by its very nature....
 
Monoethnic Social Club said:
Never understood how you could have NO government implementing government wealfare programs? Your utopia could never work by its very nature....
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People have shown they can organise themselves without government.

How does Hellas run?

How can you say we need governments when you have never tried the alternative? It's not my utopia. It's an idea. if we think the current idea of our government is good then what can I say.
 
Muz said:
Well then you need benevolent billionaires and humans to be wired not to be greedy. The bible was right when they said 'the love of money is the root of all evil'.

We need it, don't 'love' it though.
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A communal access to the means of production and the profits of labour would mean there ARE no billionaires, benevolent or otherwise... To each according to his needs remember? Jesus said the love of money as evil NOT the rest of the bible mate...
 
Monoethnic Social Club said:
Never understood how you could have NO government implementing government wealfare programs? Your utopia could never work by its very nature....
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Capitalism is fine it just needs guardrails and limits. Does anyone really need $5 billion dollars?

$1 billion is more than you and 20 of your family could spend in a lifetime. Time to tax the fuck out of anyone worth over, insert amount here.

90% tax on wealth from over $1 billion to $5 billion would raise $3.6 billion. Enough to build 3 new hospitals, pay for the Coffs Harbour bypass twice over or build 9 new schools. And if they want to dress it up they can plasters Gina's name on it. The Gina Rheinhart Yamba public school.

Wonderful ring to it.
 
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tsf said:
People have shown they can organise themselves without government.

How does Hellas run?

How can you say we need governments when you have never tried the alternative? It's not my utopia. It's an idea. if we think the current idea of our government is good then what can I say.
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Hellas runs by a constitution as adhered to by voting members through a board - ie like a government...

I am not fundamentally AGAINST the concept of Anarcho-Communism , just think it is even less likely to ever be successful due to the inherent shitness of human nature.
 
tsf said:
People have shown they can organise themselves without government.

How does Hellas run?

How can you say we need governments when you have never tried the alternative? It's not my utopia. It's an idea. if we think the current idea of our government is good then what can I say.
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I don't understand why we don't look at the top, say, 5 countries in the world for wealth, health and happiness, take the best parts of those societies and build that here.

If you're building an airport you don't start the whole bastard thing from scratch, you look at best practice and adopt it. Blows my fucking mind how we can see other countries smashing it and we just ignore what works.
 
Muz said:
Yeah but it's IN the bible. Pretty nitpicky.

You don't quote the verse of the book or the author when you say 'an eye for eye' for example.
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No sorry, what I meant to say was that "The bible" as a guide book for Abrahamic religion is ALL about eye for eye, consequences for sin and this overwhelmiong cataloguing of ancestry and who is entitled to what and what you should do to please almighty God. The whole old testement is about these big shots, owning slaves, and kings being born into royal families and anointed, and owning slaves and having children with concubines and each other's sisters and on and on and on. Abraham begat Isaac, who in turn begat Jacob ......

Jesus came along and just said "look if youv'e got an extra shirt and see a bloke that is shivering from the cold, maybe give it to him" "
 
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Muz said:
Capitalism is fine it just needs guardrails and limits. Does anyone really need $5 billion dollars?

$1 billion is more than you and 20 of your family could spend in a lifetime. Time to tax the fuck out of anyone worth over, insert amount here.

90% tax on wealth from over $1 billion to $5 billion would raise $3.6 billion. Enough to build 3 new hospitals, pay for the Coffs Harbour bypass twice over or build 9 new schools. And if they want to dress it up they can plasters Gina's name on it. The Gina Rheinhart Yamba public school.

Wonderful ring to it.
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Im with you there, EAT THE RICH I say... But in the same breath, taxing the crap out of wealthy is not really going to incentivese ANYONE to become wealthy now is it? Value and power are relative, in the land of the blind the one eyed man is king.. If There was no incentive to build wealth it would cost $0 to build the COffs harbour bypass and 9 schools, the collective would do it.
 
Muz said:
I don't understand why we don't look at the top, say, 5 countries in the world for wealth, health and happiness, take the best parts of those societies and build that here.

If you're building an airport you don't start the whole bastard thing from scratch, you look at best practice and adopt it. Blows my fucking mind how we can see other countries smashing it and we just ignore what works.
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Mate, in comparison to the rest of the world we really ARE smashing it these days.... Australia isnt such a bad place to be.
 
Monoethnic Social Club said:
Hellas runs by a constitution as adhered to by voting members through a board - ie like a government...

I am not fundamentally AGAINST the concept of Anarcho-Communism , just think it is even less likely to ever be successful due to the inherent shitness of human nature.
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But not a government. It’s small example of how community can easily organise themselves.

You don’t need an army, cops or state based system to enforce your rules.
 
Monoethnic Social Club said:
Im with you there, EAT THE RICH I say... But in the same breath, taxing the crap out of wealthy is not really going to incentivese ANYONE to become wealthy now is it? Value and power are relative, in the land of the blind the one eyed man is king.. If There was no incentive to build wealth it would cost $0 to build the COffs harbour bypass and 9 schools, the collective would do it.
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Are you saying that someone is not going to earn, or aim to build billion dollars of wealth through their endeavours because they're going to get taxed heavily after they earn the first billion dollars?

Very unlikely.
 
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tsf said:
But not a government. It’s small example of how community can easily organise themselves.

You don’t need an army, cops or state based system to enforce your rules.
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Sorry man, I dont want to nitpick but YES Hellas is run as a not for profit members based sporting organisation and has to follow rules regulated by state AND federal government in regards to reporting, administering and regestering for tax and trade...

We 100% needs the police to enforce those rules (maybe not the army though unless we play Preston lol)
 
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Muz said:
Capitalism is fine it just needs guardrails and limits. Does anyone really need $5 billion dollars?

$1 billion is more than you and 20 of your family could spend in a lifetime. Time to tax the fuck out of anyone worth over, insert amount here.

90% tax on wealth from over $1 billion to $5 billion would raise $3.6 billion. Enough to build 3 new hospitals, pay for the Coffs Harbour bypass twice over or build 9 new schools. And if they want to dress it up they can plasters Gina's name on it. The Gina Rheinhart Yamba public school.

Wonderful ring to it.
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Or the death penalty if you teach a certain cap 😂
 
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Muz said:
Are you saying that someone is not going to earn, or aim to build billion dollars through their endeavoursbecause they're going to get taxed heavily after they earn a billion dollars?

Very unlikely.
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Its all relative though isn't it? If billionaires were reasonable they wouldn't try and become trillionaires as you state... Money and Power are powerful motivators, take them away and the end goal can change I reckon.
tsf said:
Or the death penalty if you teach a certain cap 😂
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Should be like the hunger games.... lol
 
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