Bulldogs Debate Page
- Thread starter Dman2025
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The game against the Roosters probably looks completely different if we had Thompson and Hughes starting and King and Toups coming off the bench.
I am just glad that Hughes was in the team, it may have been a lot uglier with out him.
Hopoi and Morrin seem to be racking up good starts in reserve grade. Morrin isn't the type of player that can regularly make post contact yards against bigger forwards.
Outside of the forwards mostly what we want from the team is low errors, good kicking game, few penalties conceded and good defence.
IMO Cirro is getting most things right, but has perhaps been addressing some issues a week or 2 too late. Outside of that, we are certainly short one good prop this season.
I am just glad that Hughes was in the team, it may have been a lot uglier with out him.
Hopoi and Morrin seem to be racking up good starts in reserve grade. Morrin isn't the type of player that can regularly make post contact yards against bigger forwards.
Outside of the forwards mostly what we want from the team is low errors, good kicking game, few penalties conceded and good defence.
IMO Cirro is getting most things right, but has perhaps been addressing some issues a week or 2 too late. Outside of that, we are certainly short one good prop this season.
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Reserve grade stats, this week,
Mazzone better stats than Wilson, Mazzone is a real flyer.
DSF best stats for a forward, 151M, 70PC, 30 tackles 2 misses
Turpin 35 tackles 2 misses.
Morrin 101M, 31PC, 28 tackles 6 misses.
Hopoi 114M 42PC, 20 tackles 3 misses
Todd 44M 11PC 20 tackles 1 misses
From the highlights Sexton's short kicking game was good.
Highlight was a pass from Hopoi putting Morrin into a gap and Hopoi backing up to score a try.
From the stats / highlights the candidates for promotion are DSF, Turpin, Hopoi, Rinakama, and Mazzone. Mazzone might be suspect in defence.
Returning from injury? Montoya/ Toups
Todd might have got injured.
We will see if Cirro was simply pissed-off in the Presser or if he is serious about making changes.
Mazzone better stats than Wilson, Mazzone is a real flyer.
DSF best stats for a forward, 151M, 70PC, 30 tackles 2 misses
Turpin 35 tackles 2 misses.
Morrin 101M, 31PC, 28 tackles 6 misses.
Hopoi 114M 42PC, 20 tackles 3 misses
Todd 44M 11PC 20 tackles 1 misses
From the highlights Sexton's short kicking game was good.
Highlight was a pass from Hopoi putting Morrin into a gap and Hopoi backing up to score a try.
From the stats / highlights the candidates for promotion are DSF, Turpin, Hopoi, Rinakama, and Mazzone. Mazzone might be suspect in defence.
Returning from injury? Montoya/ Toups
Todd might have got injured.
We will see if Cirro was simply pissed-off in the Presser or if he is serious about making changes.
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Minutes /tackles/ misses v Chooks.
Curran 57 / 40 / 4
Hayes 42 / 30 / 4
Hughes 40 / 29 / 2
Salmon 28 / 17 / 0
Mann 28 / 20 / 1
King 32 / 28 / 0
Low minutes for King is hardest to explain.
My conclusion! something very unusual happened against the Chooks. Some players were not 100%. That was compounded by dropped balls/penalties, possibly from other players trying too hard to compensate.
While Curran dropped balls and gave away penalties, he played with plenty of energy.
Hard to know which players Cirro might be thinking about leaving out.
Curran came on and tried to change the game with his energy. The intention was right. His just needs to make a few small tweaks.
Penalties and errors are harder to defend due to the option of kicking to a tall winger. We have more tall wingers coming through the lower grades.
The best defence at present is probably pressure on the kicker. Rather than trying to block runners. I think one of our players should contest the ball and another should try to stop the catcher grounding the ball.
We could try the Dogs player at centre being the player who attempts to catch the ball, coming across the field towards the sideline and forward. Any momentum in the collision will take the catcher closer to the sideline. The winger needs to drop back right in front of where they think that the attacker will try to catch the ball, ideally coming forward when both catchers are in the air to be able to grab the attacker when they land.
If the ball is landing further in, the roles are reversed the the Dogs winger catching. It is important that our guy attempting the catch has momentum. And that we have a "clean up" guy in position early.
Cirro and the coaches might have a better idea, but we need at least one other way of defending the kicks.
Curran 57 / 40 / 4
Hayes 42 / 30 / 4
Hughes 40 / 29 / 2
Salmon 28 / 17 / 0
Mann 28 / 20 / 1
King 32 / 28 / 0
Low minutes for King is hardest to explain.
My conclusion! something very unusual happened against the Chooks. Some players were not 100%. That was compounded by dropped balls/penalties, possibly from other players trying too hard to compensate.
While Curran dropped balls and gave away penalties, he played with plenty of energy.
Hard to know which players Cirro might be thinking about leaving out.
Curran came on and tried to change the game with his energy. The intention was right. His just needs to make a few small tweaks.
Penalties and errors are harder to defend due to the option of kicking to a tall winger. We have more tall wingers coming through the lower grades.
The best defence at present is probably pressure on the kicker. Rather than trying to block runners. I think one of our players should contest the ball and another should try to stop the catcher grounding the ball.
We could try the Dogs player at centre being the player who attempts to catch the ball, coming across the field towards the sideline and forward. Any momentum in the collision will take the catcher closer to the sideline. The winger needs to drop back right in front of where they think that the attacker will try to catch the ball, ideally coming forward when both catchers are in the air to be able to grab the attacker when they land.
If the ball is landing further in, the roles are reversed the the Dogs winger catching. It is important that our guy attempting the catch has momentum. And that we have a "clean up" guy in position early.
Cirro and the coaches might have a better idea, but we need at least one other way of defending the kicks.
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Bottom line, I don't think that the issues in the Roosters game are permanent problems.
Now we know what we need to try to fix.
If we can't get to the required level this season, we know what we need to aim for next season.
Teams like the Storm, Roosters and Panthers were much worse earlier in the season. Raiders more consistent, but have improved.
Tigers, Eels and Dragons building late. Broncos have always had the talent.
Warriors and Fins on a similar journey to us, but with more injuries.
Our early season wins are not of a standard that would win games now. However, the wins over the Sharks, Raiders and Roosters were a much higher standard than our losses to the Tigers and Roosters. But the wins over Manly and the Warriors probably better than all earlier wins.
King and Mann having lingering issues from playing SOO wouldn't surprise me, a few games off might recharge their batteries.
Now we know what we need to try to fix.
If we can't get to the required level this season, we know what we need to aim for next season.
Teams like the Storm, Roosters and Panthers were much worse earlier in the season. Raiders more consistent, but have improved.
Tigers, Eels and Dragons building late. Broncos have always had the talent.
Warriors and Fins on a similar journey to us, but with more injuries.
Our early season wins are not of a standard that would win games now. However, the wins over the Sharks, Raiders and Roosters were a much higher standard than our losses to the Tigers and Roosters. But the wins over Manly and the Warriors probably better than all earlier wins.
King and Mann having lingering issues from playing SOO wouldn't surprise me, a few games off might recharge their batteries.
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King and Mann might just have had a virus or something, like that.
I think that DSF, Turpin and Hopoi should be in the mix and Toups if he is right.
If Turpin starts at lock, Marhoney 14,
I still think that we can win against the Storm, because we have to win, and 17 fully fit players is essential.
So the 23 named this week will be interesting, Cirro knows this is the most important team selection of the season so far.
We don't want to lose this game, and then have to play a stronger Storm at the same venue in week 1 of the finals,.
I think that DSF, Turpin and Hopoi should be in the mix and Toups if he is right.
If Turpin starts at lock, Marhoney 14,
I still think that we can win against the Storm, because we have to win, and 17 fully fit players is essential.
So the 23 named this week will be interesting, Cirro knows this is the most important team selection of the season so far.
We don't want to lose this game, and then have to play a stronger Storm at the same venue in week 1 of the finals,.
Team named pretty much what was expected.
I will be surprised if no players from the Roosters game are dropped.
I expect Turpin to play and if we win, he will be a factor, specifically in defence, hard hitting, and lots of it.
I expect a response from our side, not getting a response would be a bad outcome.
IMO if we can beat the Storm we are a 50% chance of being in the GF, narrow hard fought loss 10% chance, we get flogged 1% chance.
Even if we don't make the GF this season we learn plenty, but I don't need to guess what Cirro and the team are aiming for.
I will be surprised if no players from the Roosters game are dropped.
I expect Turpin to play and if we win, he will be a factor, specifically in defence, hard hitting, and lots of it.
I expect a response from our side, not getting a response would be a bad outcome.
IMO if we can beat the Storm we are a 50% chance of being in the GF, narrow hard fought loss 10% chance, we get flogged 1% chance.
Even if we don't make the GF this season we learn plenty, but I don't need to guess what Cirro and the team are aiming for.
Cirro not happy during the press conference, putting the team on notice .
My other theory as crazy as it may sound are the Bulldogs sand bagging . Would we rather play Canberra than Storm in the first week of finals , ? We have a good record against the Raiders and they are more inexperienced in finals .. just putting it out there ..
The team will need to improve immensely this Friday to beat Storm .. Sexton named as 19 could Cirro make a late decision.. Galvo has not been firing up and Critta has seen less ball since Galvo been in the team .:
Not sure what to make of that loss to the Roosters.....
We were either tanking (unlikely given guaranteed top 4, possible top 2 and MP was on offer) or we simply have no clue or cannot think on our feet to implement a plan B.
Alarm bells should have been ringing when Tuala-Tracey botched the first Roosters bomb that Billy Smith nearly scored.
We then followed that up, with Tuala-Crighton not contesting the next 5 bombs, with about 3 of them resulting in Roosters tries.
Absolute pathetic from both Tuala and Crighton. The latter having a shocker given his experience and place in the team as captain.
I was absolutely certain Cirro's press conference was aimed at Critta (and probably Preston who was equally absent in that game).
Having seen the same 17 named, one would think it was more of a back-handed comment that he'll be putting players that are not injury affected, but in true CC fashion, the team named 1hr before kick-off usually features some changes with the extended bench.
I thought these stupid games by the coach had run their course, but obviously not.
I lay blame for this loss to CC primarily (should have swapped Kiraz with Tuala immediately after first 2 bombs) and Critta for not changing the way they defend those bombs.
We were either tanking (unlikely given guaranteed top 4, possible top 2 and MP was on offer) or we simply have no clue or cannot think on our feet to implement a plan B.
Alarm bells should have been ringing when Tuala-Tracey botched the first Roosters bomb that Billy Smith nearly scored.
We then followed that up, with Tuala-Crighton not contesting the next 5 bombs, with about 3 of them resulting in Roosters tries.
Absolute pathetic from both Tuala and Crighton. The latter having a shocker given his experience and place in the team as captain.
I was absolutely certain Cirro's press conference was aimed at Critta (and probably Preston who was equally absent in that game).
Having seen the same 17 named, one would think it was more of a back-handed comment that he'll be putting players that are not injury affected, but in true CC fashion, the team named 1hr before kick-off usually features some changes with the extended bench.
I thought these stupid games by the coach had run their course, but obviously not.
I lay blame for this loss to CC primarily (should have swapped Kiraz with Tuala immediately after first 2 bombs) and Critta for not changing the way they defend those bombs.
If a bomb is going up and landing inside your 10m zone, it is imperative you have 1 player providing a block while another player jumps to contest it. If the attacker catches the ball, the block defender must wrap him up while cover defence comes across.
If the ball drop zone is outside your 20m, you should not be contesting the bomb 95% of the time and simply look to wrap the attacker or bundle him out of touch.
It is really not that different to receiving a 10m drop out. The only difference is your players are set at both the drop zone and behind the ball and the consequence of opposition catching the bomb are not aa bad as conceding a try.
Not contesting the ball inside your 10m against tall opposition or experts in Coates, Tupou, Nanai or Eli Katoa is simply criminal.
I was so pissed off with Tuala and Critta last week its not funny. Pissed off with Cirro also for not fixing the problem on the fly.
Usually you lose a game and take some lessons from it. I have absolutely ZERO confidence in playing the Roosters again and reversing the result.
In fact im now afraid we have given the other teams a blueprint of how to rattle us. Bombs.
Took us 4 games to finally get things right and win in the wet..i wonder how long it will take to combat this bomb play......
If the ball drop zone is outside your 20m, you should not be contesting the bomb 95% of the time and simply look to wrap the attacker or bundle him out of touch.
It is really not that different to receiving a 10m drop out. The only difference is your players are set at both the drop zone and behind the ball and the consequence of opposition catching the bomb are not aa bad as conceding a try.
Not contesting the ball inside your 10m against tall opposition or experts in Coates, Tupou, Nanai or Eli Katoa is simply criminal.
I was so pissed off with Tuala and Critta last week its not funny. Pissed off with Cirro also for not fixing the problem on the fly.
Usually you lose a game and take some lessons from it. I have absolutely ZERO confidence in playing the Roosters again and reversing the result.
In fact im now afraid we have given the other teams a blueprint of how to rattle us. Bombs.
Took us 4 games to finally get things right and win in the wet..i wonder how long it will take to combat this bomb play......
Yes he hasn't posted for a while, a can drinky drinky drinky tour of Europe is a possibility.
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I thought that the criticism in the Roosters match was aimed at King and Mann. Possibly Salmon and Marhoney. Possibly Curran for errors and penalties.
Energy levels and work rate was down for multiple players, King, Mann, Kiraz and Preston.
Some of that was good line speed from the Roosters, hitting us hard with gang tackles at the advantage line.
The Roosters defensive performance may have been the best defensive performance by any team this season. In particular, Hugo and Victor did a great job of shutting down Kiks.
But something also wasn't right with our side, some of the defensive effort areas were way down. I've never seen Kurt Mann with such low energy levels in defence.
Energy levels and work rate was down for multiple players, King, Mann, Kiraz and Preston.
Some of that was good line speed from the Roosters, hitting us hard with gang tackles at the advantage line.
The Roosters defensive performance may have been the best defensive performance by any team this season. In particular, Hugo and Victor did a great job of shutting down Kiks.
But something also wasn't right with our side, some of the defensive effort areas were way down. I've never seen Kurt Mann with such low energy levels in defence.
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I expect a response from us and I also expect some team changes.
We will find out if we have what it takes to be a genuine contender this season.
DSF has extended I expect that him and Turpin will be in the side, though if Toups is fully fit DSF might miss out.
Edit: Since Turpin and DSF are named in reserve grade, this does seem unlikely.
Turpin starting at lock is a possible key. IMO he can replace Salmon and Marhoney. We need to use Mann differently, with him playing longer minutes and taking fewer runs.
Hayward is good at bringing players on to the ball, with some bigger bodies on the bench we can punch out more hard runs from big bodies up the middle.
Cirro might persist with Salmon starting, Mann off the bench and a backup dummy-half. Opposition teams have seen that style, I just have a hunch that it isn't going to be effective in the semis.
Cirro seems to have a different opinion and so far his way of doing things has mostly worked. The rain may stop soon, dry conditions brings our up tempo small mobile player style a lot of advantages.
Win the yardage and possession battle, we limit the opportunities for the opposition to score off kicks. We need more pressure on the kicker and more pressure on the catcher via someone contesting the ball.
Even trying to bat the odd ball out is fine, that is easier than catching it.
Kiraz was marking Marki Mark who is just as dangerous as Toups under the high ball though less experienced and not as smart.
We will find out if we have what it takes to be a genuine contender this season.
DSF has extended I expect that him and Turpin will be in the side, though if Toups is fully fit DSF might miss out.
Edit: Since Turpin and DSF are named in reserve grade, this does seem unlikely.
Turpin starting at lock is a possible key. IMO he can replace Salmon and Marhoney. We need to use Mann differently, with him playing longer minutes and taking fewer runs.
Hayward is good at bringing players on to the ball, with some bigger bodies on the bench we can punch out more hard runs from big bodies up the middle.
Cirro might persist with Salmon starting, Mann off the bench and a backup dummy-half. Opposition teams have seen that style, I just have a hunch that it isn't going to be effective in the semis.
Cirro seems to have a different opinion and so far his way of doing things has mostly worked. The rain may stop soon, dry conditions brings our up tempo small mobile player style a lot of advantages.
Win the yardage and possession battle, we limit the opportunities for the opposition to score off kicks. We need more pressure on the kicker and more pressure on the catcher via someone contesting the ball.
Even trying to bat the odd ball out is fine, that is easier than catching it.
Kiraz was marking Marki Mark who is just as dangerous as Toups under the high ball though less experienced and not as smart.
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OldDogFan
Reserve Player
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- Nov 28, 2024
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- 52
The Dogs like a high energy game where the ball is in play for long periods, this takes its toll on the opposition and saps their energy levels. Unfortunately this is where the referees come in. They stop/start the play and take our advantage from us. It looks innocuous, it is very subtle, almost undetectable but very effective indeed. If we play mistake free and deliberate football, we have a chance take the referee out of the equation.
Dry conditions certainly help, when we play with good energy fast linespeed and good scramble, we make fewer errors and do a better job of defending errors.
Trys from kicks is a new development, errors and field possession can be harder to defend.
It is just one game, everytime we lose we learn something important.
We should have learned a lot from the losses to the Tigers and Chooks. Also from the loss to the Broncos earlier in the season.
I didn't think that we got the 50-50s against the Chooks, momentum shifted on a slow peel penalty against King.
The Chooks did plenty of holding down and their linespeed was very fast or it was a skinny 10.
We are vulnerable to a skinny 10 and fast linespeed in slippery conditions. We should have matched the Roosters linespeed and got more numbers in the tackle.
I still don't think that there is an issue that can't be fixed.
Errors and penalties from Curran and even Toups are a worry. We need players with energy but they need to be tidy and focused.
Many of our losses this season have started with a bad unforced dropped ball out of nothing, followed up by not defending the error.
OldDogFan
Reserve Player
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- 52
hd, the game against the chooks was a sham. Admittedly we were our own worse enemies with ball control but FMD some of those penaties against us were a straight up rort. And since when is a cannonball tackle acceptable. As soon as I saw that on Friday I new they were going to play the chooks into the 8 and a lot of non Dogs supporters I was with, agree.
The loss to the Broncos trailing 34-0 at half-time was the worst of the season.
Galvin wasn't in the side, Sexton was 7, Marhoney was 9.
Earlier games against the Raiders and Roosters similar first half but we managed to keep the score close enough.
20-0 isn't that different to 34-0, but the score was in reach.
Good wins where we were convincing for the full 80, Sharks, Manly and Warriors.
Sharks and Manly we matched it in a fairy physical contest.
Last game against the Chooks 14-6 at half-time with them scoring a lucky try was close enough. But we faided fairly quickly in the second half which is unusual for a close to full strength side.
Most of the time when we are dominated and the opposition piles on points, we lose the forwards battle. Letting a bigger pack have more ball will usually end badly.
That has happened plenty of times when Galvin wasn't in the side.
Galvin wasn't in the side, Sexton was 7, Marhoney was 9.
Earlier games against the Raiders and Roosters similar first half but we managed to keep the score close enough.
20-0 isn't that different to 34-0, but the score was in reach.
Good wins where we were convincing for the full 80, Sharks, Manly and Warriors.
Sharks and Manly we matched it in a fairy physical contest.
Last game against the Chooks 14-6 at half-time with them scoring a lucky try was close enough. But we faided fairly quickly in the second half which is unusual for a close to full strength side.
Most of the time when we are dominated and the opposition piles on points, we lose the forwards battle. Letting a bigger pack have more ball will usually end badly.
That has happened plenty of times when Galvin wasn't in the side.
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I wasn't impressed with the ref.
I think that we should get less stop start in the semis.
Against the Storm we need to go close to matching them in the forwards, and keep unforced errors and dumb penalties to a minimum.
We can't control the ref.
Against the Warriors we definitely got the 50-50s and it is the same ref we have this week.
I'm sending a load of Warriors jerseys to the Storm boys.
I actually think its not so much the stop-start nature but rather the field position that hurts us.
We are a team that tries to win the territorial battle by either pinning teams in their own half and forcing them to kick from their 30m-40m or forcing them into early tackle errors which gift us possession in attacking territory. Otherwise, we rely on penalties and 6-agains to make it upfield.
In order to win the territory, we need 3 or 4 tit-for-tat sets in a row. If we concede a penalty or 6-again, we lose all that hard work and pressure and have to start all over again.
That is what hurts us.
I feel this team is not yet a premiership team. We need much more from our attack.
We need to be able to create line breaks from our own half or full length of field tries. We dont have the right roster for this and need faster outside backs to match it with the top teams.
We also need more creativity from our halves and that is where Galvin will ultimately prove his worth.
Ill say it again, we are handicapped having a non ball player in Burton taking up a halves spot and until we bite the bullet and move him away from 5/8th we will not have a plan B.
Teams without plan B's have never won a premiership.