Best overseas leagues for Aussies?

[Decentric]

I've spoken to Lawrie McKinna at length about this. He would have better insight than most re the relative merits of the SPFL and the AL.

His view is that the conditions of both countries are too different to properly rate the leagues... Scottish teams who come here for friendlies just about always lose on our hard hot pitches. But if an Australian team went to Scotland to play a friendly they would struggle.

If a fair time and place could be found to play all AL teams against all SPFL teams then LM believes the AL boys would win most of the matches as the range of quality is much greater in Scotland than it is in Oz.

In summary, the SPFL (according to LM) is comparable (if not inferior) to the AL - especially once you remove Celtic and Rangers from the equation. But what makes the SPFL attractive to Australians (and it's only second tier Australians who go there) is the chance to play in a football obsessed culture, make slightly more money and put themselves in the Euro shop window.

What makes the football different is the cold weather and soft pitches (as opposed to the baking sun and hard pitches of the summer AL). Scottish football, in the cold, is far faster than AL football so decisions have to be made quicker and skills must be developed in order to cope).

Excellent summary, Mr C.

When I’ve watched it outside Celtic and Rangers, the other teams lose the ball quickly, because the ball carriers aren’t supported proactively, by their teammates opening angled passing lanes - like when watching Serie A and even the AL.

In Scotland the ball is in the transitions a lot, or Contested Ball Phase, not clear possession for one team or the other.


Other good examples are many of the teams in the WC, who support the ball carrier well, hence the better teams being able to sustain longer spells of possession.

Laurie McKinna was supposedly the best man manager, or player manager, of all the AL coaches.

 

[Decentric]

I don't think Scottish Premier League suit our players, however I get it why players will go there because its a shop window for bigger clubs and bigger leagues.

I think over time the MLS will become a more tempting destination for our players given the transition from the MLS to the European leagues is smaller.

I was gobsmacked when Global Football Network had the MLS ranked at 10th!

One behind the Brazilian league and one higher than the Argentinian league!

 

[Decentric]

Just the one point, if the SPFL is indeed inferior, why do so many Aussies fail over there. I am struggling to remember a Scot that has failed in any of Australia's national leagues.

Pim Verbeek stated that when the English Champ was a hoofball league, many good international players would struggle with the unique skill set required in it.

That era is long gone.

Scotland requires players to fight for second balls more than the AL. Ball winning skills are paramount in Scotland. It could well be one of the most physical leagues in the world.

 

[Decentric]

EPL, Bundesliga, Serie A and Championship for the top tier of our players.

Jupiler Lig, Eredivisie and Swiss Super League for the next tier. The best places to start. My favourite tier, really interesting leagues and open minded about our guys.

I'm in two minds about whether to add Buli 2 here because its been a mixed bag for our guys in this league but it probably deserves to be there.

Danish Superliga, SPFL and J-League below these but still good. The SPFL gets a bad wrap and I feel this thread is another vehicle for that. It's a league with flaws and strengths but at least they give our guys a go.

Italy and the Balkan leagues I reckon you need heritage there.

Spain and Portugal I hate when our guys go there it almost always ends badly.

The other Euro leagues, K-League, MLS, Saudi Pro League (cringe) are in the mixer with the AL and are acceptable when it fits the player and the stage of their careers or playing qualities.

Looking at league rankings Poland at 13th is above the J League, but I’d wager Japanese football in general, the Japanese national team and the J League, is higher standard than the Polish football milieu in general.

Outside the Big UEFA Five, the next rank is MLS, English Champ, Dutch, Swiss, Portuguese, Belgian and J League, possibly Mexico, Brazil, Argentina, all at similar levels?

Some good points made in your post, Q.

 

[Sutherlandbear]

Pim Verbeek stated that when the English Champ was a hoofball league, many good international players would struggle with the unique skill set required in it.

That era is long gone.

Scotland requires players to fight for second balls more than the AL. Ball winning skills are paramount in Scotland. It could well be one of the most physical leagues in the world.

Yes, where men are real men.

 

[LFC]

Pim Verbeek stated that when the English Champ was a hoofball league, many good international players would struggle with the unique skill set required in it.

That era is long gone.

Scotland requires players to fight for second balls more than the AL. Ball winning skills are paramount in Scotland. It could well be one of the most physical leagues in the world.

In bold, so the AL isn't competitive nor physical enough ? that what your saying ?

 

[Sutherlandbear]

In bold, so the AL isn't competitive nor physical enough ? that what your saying ?

He is using his famed KNVB literature again.

 

[LFC]

you know what sticking out for me even more - talking about fighting for 2nd balls/being physical/adjusting to climates/different grounds/grass length/hard/soft........
How did all these fellas do it all before without any of the KNVB/academies/sports scientist's/physio's/statisticians yaddayadda
League Rankings for arguments sake but people believe it as the best guide - I question that.
The metrics are varied from my reading so its not really that cut and dried nor true reflection, its maths.
I'll take any fighter from the SPL over a APL player if I had to fight in the trench's with someone for eg......
How can a league like ours and the MLS rank legitimately with NO P/R ? MLS ranks higher than the Championship yer right.
Ah the metrics........resets/back pass's/possession stats/BPO/PCR/PPDA/HSR/xG/xA blahblah
Does that measure players tickers when there is NO relegation,something to lose, your salary, your club being demoted to fight for let alone promotion ?
Maybe our players not cutting it in the SPL are lacking the "fight" not as desperate to win 2nd balls ? their boot sink into the pitch too much ?
Poor things.

 

[Cunningstunt]

you know what sticking out for me even more - talking about fighting for 2nd balls/being physical/adjusting to climates/different grounds/grass length/hard/soft........
How did all these fellas do it all before without any of the KNVB/academies/sports scientist's/physio's/statisticians yaddayadda
League Rankings for arguments sake but people believe it as the best guide - I question that.
The metrics are varied from my reading so its not really that cut and dried nor true reflection, its maths.
I'll take any fighter from the SPL over a APL player if I had to fight in the trench's with someone for eg......
How can a league like ours and the MLS rank legitimately with NO P/R ? MLS ranks higher than the Championship yer right.
Ah the metrics........resets/back pass's/possession stats/BPO/PCR/PPDA/HSR/xG/xA blahblah
Does that measure players tickers when there is NO relegation,something to lose, your salary, your club being demoted to fight for let alone promotion ?
Maybe our players not cutting it in the SPL are lacking the "fight" not as desperate to win 2nd balls ? their boot sink into the pitch too much ?
Poor things.

I don't think MLS does rank above the champ does it? Opta has champ at 9th, MLS 19th.
I get the point about pro/rel. But I could imagine a world where the MLS was the strongest league in the world. If football became the predominant sport in the US, it would be surprising if it didn't become the strongest league in the world. The financial weight of the US would be too much for europe to compete with. The part that isn't likely (fortunately for the europeans) is football overtaking the entrenched native sports, not the MLS being unable to go past everyone without pro/rel.

 

[Decentric]

In bold, so the AL isn't competitive nor physical enough ? that what your saying ?

No.

The AL has been perceived as a pretty rugged league, particularly in the recent past, before the new young whizz Gen have emerged. en masse.

I’ve read articles where imports have been embarrassed they haven’t been able to match it physically in the A L.

The Scottish league may be the most rugged of all. A few decades ago Italian hard man Gattuso played in Scotland. He said the Scots ‘tackled like men’. He said when he tackled the same in Serie A, ‘they looked for the referee’.

 

[Decentric]

I don't think MLS does rank above the champ does it? Opta has champ at 9th, MLS 19th.
I get the point about pro/rel. But I could imagine a world where the MLS was the strongest league in the world. If football became the predominant sport in the US, it would be surprising if it didn't become the strongest league in the world. The financial weight of the US would be too much for europe to compete with. The part that isn't likely (fortunately for the europeans) is football overtaking the entrenched native sports, not the MLS being unable to go past everyone without pro/rel.

I thought the MLS was about 19th, but Global Network has it at 10th.

 

[Sutherlandbear]

No.

The AL has been perceived as a pretty rugged league, particularly in the recent past, before the new young whizz Gen have emerged. en masse.

I’ve read articles where imports have been embarrassed they haven’t been able to match it physically in the A L.

The Scottish league may be the most rugged of all. A few decades ago Italian hard man Gattuso played in Scotland. He said the Scots ‘tackled like men’. He said when he tackled the same in Serie A, ‘they looked for the referee’.

As i previously said, where men are real men. Wee Rino was great at Rangers.

 

[LFC]

CS, fair point but I doubt it.
Also another good point re rankings - which do you actually believe is the right ?
D quoted that MLS was above Champ prob from another site for eg.......
My check right now goggling

Below Popularity ranking from 1 site

• American Football: ~36% to 52% of sports fans
• Basketball: ~17% to 43% of sports fans
• Soccer: ~10% of sports fans
• Baseball: ~9% of sports fans

Most Participated ranking - have no clue which bowling

• Bowling (~69 million participants)
• Basketball (~26 million+ participants)
• Softball/Baseball (~40 million and ~16 million respectively)
• Golf (Tens of millions of players)
• Soccer (~14+ million outdoor participants)

 

[Decentric]

In bold, so the AL isn't competitive nor physical enough ? that what your saying ?

The off the ball movement in opening passing lanes to support the teammate ball carrier, is superior in the AL to Scotland.

From watching Cup football on Paramount.

The joker in the pack is Celtic. Superb off the ball movement to open passing lanes is on show to support the teammate ball carrier.

 

[Sutherlandbear]

The off the ball movement in opening passing lanes to support the teammate ball carrier, is superior in the AL to Scotland.

From watching Cup football on Paramount.

The joker in the pack is Celtic. Superb off the ball movement to open passing lanes is on show to support the teammate ball carrier.

Never base anything off cup football, a completely different beast.

 

[Decentric]

As i previously said, where men are real men. Wee Rino was great at Rangers.

Where off the ball movement is behind many other leagues.

Hence, low passing aggregates each club game in Scotland.

The ball is in the transitions a lot - where no team is clearly in possession.

 

[LFC]

No.

The AL has been perceived as a pretty rugged league, particularly in the recent past, before the new young whizz Gen have emerged. en masse.

really perceived as a pretty rugged league ? I have not read anything as such.

I’ve read articles where imports have been embarrassed they haven’t been able to match it physically in the A L.

I have read some Imports be polite imo and quote its better than they expected and so they should but nothing more, they are not going to say its average. Most Imports have settled in done great. Its not that hard seriously.

The Scottish league may be the most rugged of all. A few decades ago Italian hard man Gattuso played in Scotland. He said the Scots ‘tackled like men’. He said when he tackled the same in Serie A, ‘they looked for the referee’.

Your comparing a Ferrari to a Vauxhall so to speak - ofcourse Gattuso would say as such - chalk and cheese.
One league is muscle the other the dark arts.

 

[Decentric]

Never base anything off cup football, a completely different beast.

It has also been discussed a lot on here.

Posters have quoted low passing aggregates per game in Scotland compared to AL, Eng Champ, etc.

 

[Decentric]

First paragraph was some time ago before COVID when we had a lot more media in Aus football - or it was free - 442, SMH, The Age, SBS.

Now with so many younger players playing in the AL under the age of 24 they might be easier to push off the ball.

 

[Sutherlandbear]

It has also been discussed a lot on here.

Posters have quoted low passing aggregates per game in Scotland compared to AL, Eng Champ, etc.

Fuck all of that, i want to see action, blood and thunder. Who the fuck goes to games hoping to see 600 backwards and sideways passes.