Australian news and politics.

[grazorblade]

A rammed car, heavily armed police with knowledge of their movements. Apparently heading towards Bondi but that may turn out to be false and it's just some other criminal matter.

yeah saw a news clip that suggested pretty much that

 

[JS96]

yeah saw a news clip that suggested pretty much that

News saying their sources revealed an emergency consultation had happened before deciding to act.

 

[JS96]

taking a glance at football anarchy would suggest the far right definitely do not support Jews. This is the name of their threadView attachment 4732

ok....maybe that is some dark humour (still not ok), but you don't need to go to far into the thread to see people say that Jews aren't real Australians, conspiracies about the zionists controlling everything yada yada all the usual antisemitic tropes

the far right never support Jews and anti muslim rhetoric is not the same as support for Jews

The enemy of my enemy is my friend.

Just have to look at our $100 note. John Monash was jewish.

Different times but the Jewish community in Australia today are insular in certain ways with a lot having come to Australia in the last 30 years or so. Not to say some haven't made wonderful contributions but it does come across as foreign to many Australians born here.

 

[grazorblade]

The enemy of my enemy is my friend.

Just have to look at our $100 note. John Monash was jewish.

Different times but the Jewish community in Australia today are insular in certain ways with a lot having come to Australia in the last 30 years or so. Not to say some haven't made wonderful contributions but it does come across as foreign to many Australians born here.

Same as majority of the football community to be fair. Communities kf italians greeks hungarians and croatians. Immigrating is tough, nearly every friend of ours is foreign. Most brittish people have friends here for generations. So its natural to have close knit communities

 

[JS96]

Well the 5 arrested in Liverpool will be interested to see considering ASIO were involved in this one. Whether something was imminent or they were moving into position should be revealed.

 

[JS96]

You'd need some real stuff ups to be caught up in something like this. Latest reports are it may have nothing to do with Bondi and be a separate group.

 

[Muz]

This was found on the wall of a Brisbane mosque this morning.

View attachment 4731

Yeah but according to Grazor Jewish people need special laws just for them.

 

[zimbos05]

Yeah but according to Grazor Jewish people need special laws just for them.

It shouldn't be a contest. It's clear there are extremists on both sides. We need laws that protect everyone, and deal with extremists on all sides in the same harsh manners. We also need to stop Americanised hate politics seeping in creating division.

We do need laws for anti-Semitism, but we need overall protection for all Australians, and we need to protect our values from external actors seeking to create division, and bring their hate here.

 

[Muz]

It shouldn't be a contest. It's clear there are extremists on both sides. We need laws that protect everyone, and deal with extremists on all sides in the same harsh manners.

Thats my point.

 

[LFC]

Anyone who thinks their skin colour, race, religion, gender, sexual preference makes them better than someone else is showing signs of supremacy, these shooters are extreme radical Islamist & they believe they are better than the Jews.

The left is consider Woke because, because they believe in acceptance & equality of all, no hatred, however, the extreme left are just as bad because they have gone beyond reason.

good thankyou for this had me wondering wtf - the shooters are religious right wing nutjobs.

 

[Muz]

Pinched of the interwebs.

It is bit rich of the Israeli PM to be savaging Albo for not preventing the Bondi Beach attacks when he failed to prevent October 7 even though he has at his disposal one of the world’s most powerful armies, unmatched surveillance systems and a secret service second to none, not to mention decades of experience with terrorism.

 

[grazorblade]

Yeah but according to Grazor Jewish people need special laws just for them.

That grafitti is an awful hate crime and consistent with my prior stats that showed Muslims experience higher level of hate crimes (though still way lower per capita than anti-semitic hate crimes). Having said that, what new laws do we need to address that anti-Muslim hate crime? These are some of the current laws that that graffiti violates

The no muslims=peace would fall under vilification based on religion

https://www.legislation.qld.gov.au/view/pdf/asmade/act-2023-026

The swastika is banned as a hate symbol

Historic hate crime and serious vilification laws passed in Queensland

and there also potential additional penalties due to aggravation as well as property damage.

At the moment I trust the Labour party to care about Islamophobia, I also trust elite institutions. If a colleague of mine said something Islamophobic it could cost their career, the same currently isn't true if they said globalize the intifada

I understand the instinct to keep changing the subject to something more in your ideological comfort zone, whether that is going after right wing extremists or Islamophobia. The left aren't perfect at that, but those topics are ideological home turf at the moment. But if we are to have any chance of reversing the rise of anti-semitism I think it requires tough conversations between lefties. This isn't my idea of fun, but if you don't mind let me ask you a couple of tough questions.

If some poster responded to that disgusting graffiti by saying "I don't condone it....but I can see why someone did this when there is so much Islamic terrorism happening" I think you would rightly call that out as pretty messed up. Heck, I think you'd do a fantastic job putting them in their place! Do you see any similarities with that statement and some of the statements in this thread including by yourself?

Second, suppose something awful happened to some Aboriginal people and I produced a bunch of stats raising the alarm about their current status and Labour made a plan to address that and someone said "apparently we need special laws just for Aboriginals" would you call that out?

 

[zimbos05]

At the moment I trust the Labour party to care about Islamophobia, I also trust elite institutions. If a colleague of mine said something Islamophobic it could cost their career, the same currently isn't true if they said globalize the intifada

I don't trust any party -other than the Greens (oh no, I said the forbidden word)- to care about Islamaphobia. I've seen 2 decades of hate crimes against Muslims, yet it still continues. I also have a colleague who was pretty Islamaphobic towards students (with video and audio evidence), yet not only kept their job, but got a promotion. In fact, this year, a colleague was bigoted towards me in front of other staff ("why do you care about other cultures, fix your own first. We all know it's broken and a lie"), and they got given a position as a cultural support leader. The fact that Pauline Hanson, Malcolm Roberts, Peter Dutton, Dave Sharma, Andrew Hastie among others...have all at some point in their career stood up in Senate or Parliament and made an Islamaphobic comment and still get votes, elected, or support tells you everything you need to know about how widely accepted Islamaphobia is. I walked past a restaurant on my way home after ACDC this evening and someone has spray painted the word "Dog" on the window. The restaurant is owned by a Bangladeshi man. There is a bookstore in the suburb over from me that currently has a sign that says, "Re Bondi. I warned you not to vote for the Greens. You've brought war upon you", and has a big Israeli flag stuck outside.

You also are using that slogan which doesn't mean what you think it means. Not saying it should be allowed to be said, but that slogan did not come from Muslims as a means of war. It came about from PYM or WOL as a means of saying that people have a duty to stand up along side Palestinians and taking inspiration from their courage and resistance, by putting it into action through means such as boycotts, and political voting. Using it as a call to arms came from western media, who popularised it and created that meaning around it.

I'm not out here trying to say we have it worse. I honestly don't think one has it worse over the other. I think all minority groups face levels of racism and hatred, and we are pitted against each other in the never ending cycle of violence and hate, yet there are clear groups and classes that benefit from this vitriol and hate. They feed off ethnic groups constantly hating each other.

People keep saying lefties don't want to have the conversation about anti-semitism, but I think you will find that lefties are most concerned by anti-semitism. It's been yelled countless times that the anger is towards Zionism, not Judaism. It's also been very much brought to the attention that Semites include arabs and people of the middle east in countries such as Palestine, Jordan, Kuwait etc.

If some poster responded to that disgusting graffiti by saying "I don't condone it....but I can see why someone did this when there is so much Islamic terrorism happening" I think you would rightly call that out as pretty messed up. Heck, I think you'd do a fantastic job putting them in their place! Do you see any similarities with that statement and some of the statements in this thread including by yourself?

I would totally see where they are coming from, but am I'm not going to accept it. The crux is the conflation of anti-zionism with anti-semitism and the failure to accept the difference between the two. What is happening is that people take what happened at Bondi as justification to be bigoted against 2 billion people, and engage in acts that harm, terrorise, and vilify those people, and think they have justification to do so without recourse. Much like those who fail to separate anti-zionism with anti-semitism, they fail to separate radicalism with Islam.

Second, suppose something awful happened to some Aboriginal people and I produced a bunch of stats raising the alarm about their current status and Labour made a plan to address that and someone said "apparently we need special laws just for Aboriginals" would you call that out?

Something awful has been happening to Aboriginal people for more than 200 years. We tried to change that with a referendum, and Australia overwhelmingly voted no. We can't even recognise our Indigenous people in the constitution and care for our own (regardless of race), yet we want to run so quickly to fight the war for a nation so far away from us, that doesn't actually care for the average Australia.

I've read the report on anti-semitism by Jillian Segel. I agree with a lot of what she recommends, but unsure on other things. I'm curious if you have read it and your thoughts.

 

[NicCarBel]

I don't trust any party -other than the Greens (oh no, I said the forbidden word)- to care about Islamaphobia. I've seen 2 decades of hate crimes against Muslims, yet it still continues. I also have a colleague who was pretty Islamaphobic towards students (with video and audio evidence), yet not only kept their job, but got a promotion. In fact, this year, a colleague was bigoted towards me in front of other staff ("why do you care about other cultures, fix your own first. We all know it's broken and a lie"), and they got given a position as a cultural support leader. The fact that Pauline Hanson, Malcolm Roberts, Peter Dutton, Dave Sharma, Andrew Hastie among others...have all at some point in their career stood up in Senate or Parliament and made an Islamaphobic comment and still get votes, elected, or support tells you everything you need to know about how widely accepted Islamaphobia is. I walked past a restaurant on my way home after ACDC this evening and someone has spray painted the word "Dog" on the window. The restaurant is owned by a Bangladeshi man. There is a bookstore in the suburb over from me that currently has a sign that says, "Re Bondi. I warned you not to vote for the Greens. You've brought war upon you", and has a big Israeli flag stuck outside.

You also are using that slogan which doesn't mean what you think it means. Not saying it should be allowed to be said, but that slogan did not come from Muslims as a means of war. It came about from PYM or WOL as a means of saying that people have a duty to stand up along side Palestinians and taking inspiration from their courage and resistance, by putting it into action through means such as boycotts, and political voting. Using it as a call to arms came from western media, who popularised it and created that meaning around it.

I'm not out here trying to say we have it worse. I honestly don't think one has it worse over the other. I think all minority groups face levels of racism and hatred, and we are pitted against each other in the never ending cycle of violence and hate, yet there are clear groups and classes that benefit from this vitriol and hate. They feed off ethnic groups constantly hating each other.

I've read the report on anti-semitism by Jillian Segel. I agree with a lot of what she recommends, but unsure on other things. I'm curious if you have read it and your thoughts.

Issue with society at the moment is everyone tends to generalise a whole subset of a culture into one.

Radical Muslim idealogy is a problem, I don't think that's hard to agree with. But that doesn't mean the rest of Australia's Islamic community should be chastised.

But the same goes with Australia's Jewish society - there probably is some that support the Israeli regime with what's happening over there - but that doesn't mean all Jewish people in Australia should be chastised.

And that should go for all cultures. I know I'd be rightly upset if - hypothetically, Italy invades France and starts some bullshit, and the Italo-Australians all get grouped as one.

In saying that - I think that's been the issue from Albanese. Whenever he, and his government, have spoken about the Bondi shooting, they dance around what actually happened, but are very quick to say "but we banned Nazi symbols" or "there are many threats in our nation, including far right wing movements" (I'm paraphrasing these).

If they're looking at changing laws to address this, they do need to be general to cover off a lot. But that doesn't mean that the Government can't speak to the specifics of what's happened within their borders.

 

[zimbos05]

Issue with society at the moment is everyone tends to generalise a whole subset of a culture into one.

Radical Muslim idealogy is a problem, I don't think that's hard to agree with. But that doesn't mean the rest of Australia's Islamic community should be chastised.

But the same goes with Australia's Jewish society - there probably is some that support the Israeli regime with what's happening over there - but that doesn't mean all Jewish people in Australia should be chastised.

And that should go for all cultures. I know I'd be rightly upset if - hypothetically, Italy invades France and starts some bullshit, and the Italo-Australians all get grouped as one.

In saying that - I think that's been the issue from Albanese. Whenever he, and his government, have spoken about the Bondi shooting, they dance around what actually happened, but are very quick to say "but we banned Nazi symbols" or "there are many threats in our nation, including far right wing movements" (I'm paraphrasing these).

If they're looking at changing laws to address this, they do need to be general to cover off a lot. But that doesn't mean that the Government can't speak to the specifics of what's happened within their borders.

100% agree. Not all Jewish people are bad. We've been saying this for years if not decades. People only oppose Zionism, not Judaism or Jewish people. That many Jewish people are of this, tells you the same.

Do you not think the media and politicians are aware of this, but they just put out things that serve their agenda. They create this division and hatred and then when it festers and erupts, they blame everyone else. They pit us against each other. The elite are laughing.

I don't support Albanese. I don't vote Labor, but I think people are expecting far too much in the aftermath of a major incident. He cannot just come out on day 1 making bold statements and rash decisions. He obviously has to sit with his security advisors and teams and figure shit out. LNP have come out with rash statements that have only inflamed things and put targets on people. It sounds like you want him to say that the fault is support for Palestine, which would then suggest that no one can ever oppose Israel no matter what they do. Does that not tell you just how much influence Israel then has that it can dictate Australian politics so easily? Are you really happy to have Australia controlled by Netanyahu, beholden to a state so far away that whenever we want to do something, we need their approval?

He is not wrong when he says there are many threats. There are. He obviously cannot attack one group over the other. I would like to see sweeping legislation and changes coming out. I would like to see changes to laws around hate speech, and hate crime. I would like for there to be tougher laws for those on watch lists, even deportations. I would like for their to be tougher gun laws. I would like for their to be stricter guidelines around influence from foreign nations and personnel. We really need Australia to be what Australia has always stood for, mate ship, a fair go, and pulling up the bootstraps. We can't allow the hateful rhetoric that took over America to come here.

 

[JS96]

All the greens will do is deny, deflect and distort there is a problem with radical Islam. You just need to look at Germany to how delusional and out of control things got. They imported more people from the ME and Africa who hate jews and didn't have any appropriate asylum system leaving people to enter then be able to be returned. They then passed turbo naturalisation laws in order to distort crime statistics. Even then the high number of German perpetrators are ones with migration backgrounds.

Voting greens is like pouring petrol on the fire.

 

[NicCarBel]

I don't support Albanese. I don't vote Labor, but I think people are expecting far too much in the aftermath of a major incident. He cannot just come out on day 1 making bold statements and rash decisions. He obviously has to sit with his security advisors and teams and figure shit out. LNP have come out with rash statements that have only inflamed things and put targets on people. It sounds like you want him to say that the fault is support for Palestine, which would then suggest that no one can ever oppose Israel no matter what they do. Does that not tell you just how much influence Israel then has that it can dictate Australian politics so easily? Are you really happy to have Australia controlled by Netanyahu, beholden to a state so far away that whenever we want to do something, we need their approval?

Everything else you've said is spot on - so this is the only bit I'd address.

He doesn't need to say the fault is support for Palestine - but like you've mentioned about media and politicians just putting out their own agenda - that seems to be the impression I've been getting from him. He needed to come out early and say - especially if he was going to list other threats - that radical idealogy, whether it's Islamic, Zionist, Nazi, or even directed at our indigenous is not on in Australia. I don't have much confidence in any of the politicians at the moment, they all seem to be pouring their own gasoline cans on everything.

 

[zimbos05]

All the greens will do is deny, deflect and distort there is a problem with radical Islam. You just need to look at Germany to how delusional and out of control things got. They imported more people from the ME and Africa who hate jews and didn't have any appropriate asylum system leaving people to enter then be able to be returned. They then passed turbo naturalisation laws in order to distort crime statistics. Even then the high number of German perpetrators are ones with migration backgrounds.

Voting greens is like pouring petrol on the fire.

The Federal Criminal Police Office (BKA) in Germany publishes a special report on crime involving Zuwanderer (recent migrants/refugees/asylum seekers). This report includes information on the national origins of these suspects. According to analyses:

~8.8 % of suspects of all suspects in general criminality (Zuwanderer)

 

[zimbos05]

Everything else you've said is spot on - so this is the only bit I'd address.

He doesn't need to say the fault is support for Palestine - but like you've mentioned about media and politicians just putting out their own agenda - that seems to be the impression I've been getting from him. He needed to come out early and say - especially if he was going to list other threats - that radical idealogy, whether it's Islamic, Zionist, Nazi, or even directed at our indigenous is not on in Australia. I don't have much confidence in any of the politicians at the moment, they all seem to be pouring their own gasoline cans on everything.

I agree when you say you don't have much trust in politicians. It's why we need to be smarter when we vote. We keep going back and forth on LNP and Labor and honestly, LNP are moving so far right, it's scary. I would never vote One Nation. I'd rather LNP than them. It's also why more people need to take voting seriously.

One of Albo's big problems is that 70% of all media in our country is owned by News Corp, 10% by Nine. Both are right wing. No matter what he says, they will paint it differently. I saw an article on the front page of the Courier Mail today painting Josh Frydenberg as this hero leader that Australia needs. The Australian painted it as the PM is missing. These are same publications that defended Morrison when he was on holiday whilst the country burned. Jut because it's not on the news or not published, does not mean it's not said. If there is one thing I learned in 10 years of working in media and journalism, it's how propaganda is created, how much is edited and left out, and opinions are formed and created through misrepresentation. It's why I left it.

He did say what you are asking for though:

"This was about extremism. This was IS inspired. We know IS distorts and corrupts Islam which leads to radicalisation.”

“There is no place in Australia for antisemitism. It is an evil that tears at the fabric of our country. It puts the peaceful, free and equal society that we cherish at risk.”

“…there have been examples of people skirting the edges of hate speech… unacceptable, having no place in Australia…”

That last one is him literally saying, "is not on in Australia"

 

[JS96]

The Federal Criminal Police Office (BKA) in Germany publishes a special report on crime involving Zuwanderer (recent migrants/refugees/asylum seekers). This report includes information on the national origins of these suspects. According to analyses:

~8.8 % of suspects of all suspects in general criminality (Zuwanderer)

That's right. They created another subcategory to polish the stats. This doesn't include all the people who arrived up until 2 or so years ago. Many recent arrivals are Ukrainian which hasn't spiked the crime rate. Afghans are Syrians were much more prevelant in these stats which would also include students from South Korea. Was it Algerians are 113% more likely to be involved in crime?

The public broadcaster clown talk show stated 'yes, but a foreign criminal could also be an Australian exchange student.'

With turbo citizenship they've allowed a lot of highly represented nationalities switch over to German in the stats allowing them to brush off concerns.