Australian news and politics.

[Muz]

Its nobody's business but yourself and your family's how and where you invest your money dude...
There are some fairly odd opinions on here but each to their own agenda I suppose.

Depends if you think housing is a fundamental human right or an investment vehicle to build wealth while dooming a whole generation to not being able to afford a home.

 

[Muz]

The accumulation of wealth, in ANY form, is the hording of something or other... Taking the moral high ground against residential property over say something like the stock market for example is laughable...

The stock market, in general, doesn't keep people out of having their own home.

 

[Monoethnic Social Club]

if people can invest in anything, why not rent out police to only those who can afford it? The fire brigade? You could own your own and charge rates to uni students if they have a fire. Depending on how much they pay, you can decide how much water you give them or what team tackles the blaze.

You could then start lighting your own fires and make heaps of money

Thats a completely different (and extreme) argument.. I am all for giovernemental control of essential services and beleive we should have NEVER privatised telecommunciations, energy AND transportation....

As for things that only "the rich" can afford.. I would argue that our private health and aged care sectors (not to mention private security) have being going down this path for decades now.

 

[Monoethnic Social Club]

The stock market, in general, doesn't keep people out of having their own home.

And what exactly DOES the stock market do? What does it create apart from a line of credit for private business to continue generating wealth from those (consumers) you seek to protect?

 

[Monoethnic Social Club]

Depends if you think housing is a fundamental human right or an investment vehicle to build wealth while dooming a whole generation to not being able to afford a home.

Access to clean drinking water is a fundamental human right ... that we pay for.
Access to clothing is a fundamental human right ... that we pay for.....
Access to education is a fundamental human right ... that we pay for to some degree.

etc etc etc.

 

[Monoethnic Social Club]

My argument is not about morals, it's that it is not beneficial for a successful and happy society.

It had its time and it needs to go.

Your argument, seems to be very much about morals. Especially when you use language like "hording"...

Tell me you only have one car, one pair of pants, one shirt and ONLY enough food for three meals per day "horded" and I can lend some credence to your argument.

Not having a go at either you or Muz, but it seems to be a lazy argument that the "housing crisis" is lumped onto people who invested in property rather than... bitcoin. Almost as lazy as blaming immigration.

 

[tsf]

Your argument, seems to be very much about morals. Especially when you use language like "hording"...

Tell me you only have one car, one pair of pants, one shirt and ONLY enough food for three meals per day "horded" and I can lend some credence to your argument.

Not having a go at either you or Muz, but it seems to be a lazy argument that the "housing crisis" is lumped onto people who invested in property rather than... bitcoin. Almost as lazy as blaming immigration.

What does hoarding have to do with morals?

It’s like I said - why stop at hoarding houses? Why not let the billionaires hoard water and only rent small amounts to keep most people alive?

I have no morals - but I like to see a well-run society.

 

[tsf]

Thats a completely different (and extreme) argument.. I am all for giovernemental control of essential services and beleive we should have NEVER privatised telecommunciations, energy AND transportation....

As for things that only "the rich" can afford.. I would argue that our private health and aged care sectors (not to mention private security) have being going down this path for decades now.

I don’t think it’s that extreme.

You can bet your bottom dollar that this would be a palatable idea to the ultra wealthy

 

[Muz]

Access to clean drinking water is a fundamental human right ... that we pay for.
Access to clothing is a fundamental human right ... that we pay for.....
Access to education is a fundamental human right ... that we pay for to some degree.

etc etc etc.

Yes.

And someone owning 20 houses, that they paid for, is keeping 20 other people out of a home. It's that simple.

 

[Muz]

Your argument, seems to be very much about morals. Especially when you use language like "hording"...

Tell me you only have one car, one pair of pants, one shirt and ONLY enough food for three meals per day "horded" and I can lend some credence to your argument.

Not having a go at either you or Muz, but it seems to be a lazy argument that the "housing crisis" is lumped onto people who invested in property rather than... bitcoin. Almost as lazy as blaming immigration.

Bitcoin doesn't keep people out of a home.

I'm not having a go at you. You invested in houses and built wealth. Good for you but it needs to stop.

 

[Muz]

And what exactly DOES the stock market do? What does it create apart from a line of credit for private business to continue generating wealth from those (consumers) you seek to protect?

Well you part own that company and share in it's wealth but putting aside that for a minute investing in the stock market, in general, doesn't keep people out of housing.

 

[tsf]

Your argument, seems to be very much about morals. Especially when you use language like "hording"...

Tell me you only have one car, one pair of pants, one shirt and ONLY enough food for three meals per day "horded" and I can lend some credence to your argument.

Not having a go at either you or Muz, but it seems to be a lazy argument that the "housing crisis" is lumped onto people who invested in property rather than... bitcoin. Almost as lazy as blaming immigration.

I don’t actually have a car now. But that’s only cause I don’t need one.

But if I did have a car I wouldn’t buy more than one.

It’s an indisputable fact that the tax breaks for rich have contributed to housing costs here and keep people out of stable housing. That’s not lazy, it’s reality.

I am not blaming people who do it. I am just saying it should stop now.

It’s just been a lazy way for boomers (not all) to make easier cash.

 

[tsf]

Bitcoin doesn't keep people out of a home.

I'm not having a go at you. You invested in houses and built wealth. Good for you but it needs to stop.

This is my thinking.

I don’t blame him or think he is abusing people by doing it. It’s a system that was set up and people used it.

But it should change now.

 

[Muz]

I don’t actually have a car. But that’s only cause I don’t need one.

But if I did have a car I wouldn’t buy more than one.

It’s an indisputable fact that the tax breaks for rich have contributed to housing costs here and keep people out of stable housing. That’s not lazy, it’s reality.

I am not blaming people who do it. I am just saying it should stop now.

It’s just been a lazy way for boomers (not all) to make easier cash.

The problem is of course the more homes you own the easier it is to buy other homes. Often you don't need a deposit.

So at an auction you have 20 cashed up investors vs 2 or 3 first home owners. They don't stand a chance.

At least when I was a a kid it was cheaper to rent than pay a mortgage. You could save the difference for the deposit to your own house.

Now, because no one can afford a home, rents are as high as a mortgage meaning (1) they're a great investment and (2) renters can't save a deposit trapping them in an endless cycle.

 

[tsf]

The problem is of course the more homes you own the easier it is to buy other homes. Often you don't need a deposit.

So at an auction you have 20 cashed up investors vs 2 or 3 first home owners. They don't stand a chance.

At least when I was a a kid it was cheaper to rent than pay a mortgage. You could save the difference for the deposit to your own house.

Now, because no one can afford a home, rents are as high as a mortgage meaning (1) they're a great investment and (2) renters can't save a deposit trapping them in an endless cycle.

Yeah, my old neighbour bought two shop front houses on Brunswick st Fitzroy after saving for just over two years. Was during the 60s I think but on today’s wages you have to live 3 working lifetimes to afford that

 

[Sutherlandbear]

The stock market, in general, doesn't keep people out of having their own home.

It sure loses people's homes for them.

 

[Monoethnic Social Club]

What does hoarding have to do with morals?

It’s like I said - why stop at hoarding houses? Why not let the billionaires hoard water and only rent small amounts to keep most people alive?

I have no morals - but I like to see a well-run society.

Hahaha I have no morals either but "hoarding" implies greed and unnecessary excess... Why not apply it to EVERYTHING we own /invest in...

 

[Keeper66]

It sure loses people's homes for them.

Only at the extremes, not as a general rule. Show me someone who has lost everything by investing in the stockmarket, and I'll show you someone who is greedy, was poorly advised, took on too much risk, or a combination of those things.

 

[Sutherlandbear]

Only at the extremes, not as a general rule. Show me someone who has lost everything by investing in the stockmarket, and I'll show you someone who is greedy, was poorly advised, took on too much risk, or a combination of those things.

Not the point.

 

[Monoethnic Social Club]

Yes.

And someone owning 20 houses, that they paid for, is keeping 20 other people out of a home. It's that simple.

Not if they rent out those houses to long term tenants... EVERYBODY deserves the right to housing no?