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Aussies abroad šŸŒšŸ¦˜

Spectator said:
Australia needs to get tougher on players of any sport who are born and/or grow up here for at least 10 years, but choose to play for another country. Citizenship, residency, and passport of Australia should be revoked under such circumstances. I would not advocate such measures on players not meeting stated criteria, who opt to play for another country.
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Difficult for football australia to do anything
 
verrelli said:
Do you have a link for those comments by Bennie? This is my first time hearing this. Bloody hell. I woke up yesterday to news of Segecic defecting, and today it is Bennie. Two young promising players in early 20s playing at Championship level. This is a disaster.
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See the article shared in the dual international thread
 
HonestSpursFan said:
Wow. I think this confirms that nobody wants to 100% play for us unfortunately unless theyā€™re ineligible to play for anyone else.
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It makes sense with Scottish parents probably saying he can always represent both. Hong Kong is seen as home too. Australia was just where he came and developed so maybe we should have just brushed him off early on. Perhaps this is a future policy where the mere utterance that someone is considering representing someone else, all support, funding and selection is ceased.

Imagine if we had swimmers or tennis players at our facilities with our best coaches and they said 'well if I may actually opt to swim for China/ Britain.' They'd be out of the program immediately.

So why aren't any of these dual nationals doing their ACL? John Safran needs a call.

Of course I don't wish this on Bennie but imagine in 7 years he ends up opting for HK after not reaching heights.
 
I'm still trying to wrap my head around all this in just a matter of days. Like a shot to the heart for all of us who follow these blokes so closely. We are so invested in their future football and all in the hope that they one day pull on the green and gold and further Australian football.

I think Bennie is a bit more of a an unique case where he lived in Hong Kong for the first 12 years of his life and then moved to Perth. He naturally wouldn't necessarily feel the same way about representing Australia as most of us on here would. Obviously hard to understand considering the amount of playing time and success he has had with underage Aussie teams.

I think an often forgotten fact is that both Segecic and Bennie were still pooping in their nappies when Aloisi hit that penalty in 06. This younger generation have never grown up in a world where Australia isn't at the World Cup and I think they don't understand how special it is to represent the Socceroos in this way.

The blood sweat and tears of past heartaches may be lost on them and therefore why not prefer to play for Croatia or Scotland if that's an option.

Gutted though. Just playing devils advocate.

And you're a fucking moron Tony.
 
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onedaywinners... said:
I'm still trying to wrap my head around all this in just a matter of days. Like a shot to the heart for all of us who follow these blokes so closely. We are so invested in their future football and all in the hope that they one day pull on the green and gold and further Australian football.

I think Bennie is a bit more of a an unique case where he lived in Hong Kong for the first 12 years of his life and then moved to Perth. He naturally wouldn't necessarily feel the same way about representing Australia as most of us on here would. Obviously hard to understand considering the amount of playing time and success her has has with underage Aussie teams.

I think an often forgotten fact is that both Segecic and Bennie were still pooping in their nappies when Aloisi hit that penalty in 06. This younger generation have never grown up in a world where Australia isn't at the World Cup and I think they don't understand how special it is to represent the Socceroos in this way.

The blood sweat and tears of past heartaches may be lost on them and therefore why not prefer to play for Croatia or Scotland if that's an option.

Gutted though. Just playing devils advocate.

And you're a fucking moron Tony.
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I guess Tony came from an era where roos paid their own domestic flights. Aloisi always put his shirt first, angering his club to play solomon islands coating his career at times

What changed? Is australia doing a worse job at fostering patriotism? Did the banishment of ethnic clubs cause a lot of Greek, Croatian and Italian aussies to feel lukewarm about the roos? Is the next generation just more fickle?

In any case the reality is we need to swallow our pride and strategically cap players before they are ready and "sell the shirt" to them
 
grazorblade said:
I guess Tony came from an era where roos paid their own domestic flights. Aloisi always put his shirt first, angering his club to play solomon islands coating his career at times

What changed? Is australia doing a worse job at fostering patriotism? Did the banishment of ethnic clubs cause a lot of Greek, Croatian and Italian aussies to feel lukewarm about the roos? Is the next generation just more fickle?

In any case the reality is we need to swallow our pride and strategically cap players before they are ready and "sell the shirt" to them
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The first one, yes. I was at Frankfurt airport the other day and a travelling group of Paraguayan kids all had a suitcase stretch cover of the flag with their name draped entirely across their suitcase. Of course I booed and told them see you in June. You see more Australian flags at international festivals but do these things aside from a Matildas game and it's 'not inclusive'. Not just flags but promoting Australiana in generally gets a retort with 'other cultures have great things too'. It's often self loathing white Australians who do this and then ask a Vietnamese or Greek person and they'll say 'Australia's the best'.

2: I wouldn't think so given the number of players we've had with that heritage since the A League.

3: Probably the biggest one. International football is seen more and more as a luxury toy. Probably not at the pinnacle tournament but I'd love to see something of an England EFL select or a German squad with many Bundesliga 2 players. The passion would be insurmountable. Sports like handball, ice hockey and basketball have their best players but the international game is less diluted than football.

The irony is it's never been more comfortable to fly and recover but players still see Australia as a travel hassle and Europe offers a lot of conveniences.
 
JS96 said:
The first one, yes. I was at Frankfurt airport the other day and a travelling group of Paraguayan kids all had a suitcase stretch cover of the flag with their name draped entirely across their suitcase. Of course I booed and told them see you in June. You see more Australian flags at international festivals but do these things aside from a Matildas game and it's 'not inclusive'. Not just flags but promoting Australiana in generally gets a retort with 'other cultures have great things too'. It's often self loathing white Australians who do this and then ask a Vietnamese or Greek person and they'll say 'Australia's the best'.
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There has been a real generation change in the left where the younger generation see patriotism and a compassionate inclusive vision for society as incompatible. JFK was a leftie who said "ask not what your country can do for you" the labour party wrote our national anthem, our most patriotic song by the seekers is also a song of multiculturalism. Critique of society to make it fairer was always from a place of patriotism (It's "unaustralian" to be unfair) Curious how this change happened, I'm probably an old fuddy duddy old school socialist who doesn't get it I guess haha. Hopefully the consequences for society for self loathing
JS96 said:
2: I wouldn't think so given the number of players we've had with that heritage since the A League.
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I'd be curious if any supporters of grassroots clubs with a migrant heritage to weigh in, did their connection with the socceroos get more lukewarm? I read a paper by some researchers who studied assimilation efforts and found heavy handed assimilation efforts tend to backfire. Excluding "ethnic" clubs and the ncip definitely fit into that category!

JS96 said:
3: Probably the biggest one. International football is seen more and more as a luxury toy. Probably not at the pinnacle tournament but I'd love to see something of an England EFL select or a German squad with many Bundesliga 2 players. The passion would be insurmountable. Sports like handball, ice hockey and basketball have their best players but the international game is less diluted than football.

The irony is it's never been more comfortable to fly and recover but players still see Australia as a travel hassle and Europe offers a lot of conveniences.
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That's sad because its coming at a time where a lot of fans are complaining about how club football is feeling inauthentic due it just be coorporation a vs corporation b with no one from the local area
 
onedaywinners... said:
I'm still trying to wrap my head around all this in just a matter of days. Like a shot to the heart for all of us who follow these blokes so closely. We are so invested in their future football and all in the hope that they one day pull on the green and gold and further Australian football.

I think Bennie is a bit more of a an unique case where he lived in Hong Kong for the first 12 years of his life and then moved to Perth. He naturally wouldn't necessarily feel the same way about representing Australia as most of us on here would. Obviously hard to understand considering the amount of playing time and success her has has with underage Aussie teams.

I think an often forgotten fact is that both Segecic and Bennie were still pooping in their nappies when Aloisi hit that penalty in 06. This younger generation have never grown up in a world where Australia isn't at the World Cup and I think they don't understand how special it is to represent the Socceroos in this way.

The blood sweat and tears of past heartaches may be lost on them and therefore why not prefer to play for Croatia or Scotland if that's an option.

Gutted though. Just playing devils advocate.

And you're a fucking moron Tony.
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Brilliant post mate. I'm thinking Sega and poppa are both at fault but like that Roy keane movie you just need to move on
 
JS96 said:
It makes sense with Scottish parents probably saying he can always represent both. Hong Kong is seen as home too. Australia was just where he came and developed so maybe we should have just brushed him off early on. Perhaps this is a future policy where the mere utterance that someone is considering representing someone else, all support, funding and selection is ceased.

Imagine if we had swimmers or tennis players at our facilities with our best coaches and they said 'well if I may actually opt to swim for China/ Britain.' They'd be out of the program immediately.

So why aren't any of these dual nationals doing their ACL? John Safran needs a call.

Of course I don't wish this on Bennie but imagine in 7 years he ends up opting for HK after not reaching heights.
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I would be fine with him strengthening Hong Kongā€™s team provided he isnā€™t good enough for us. If heā€™s good enough he should be playing for us though.
 
grazorblade said:
I guess Tony came from an era where roos paid their own domestic flights. Aloisi always put his shirt first, angering his club to play solomon islands coating his career at times

What changed? Is australia doing a worse job at fostering patriotism? Did the banishment of ethnic clubs cause a lot of Greek, Croatian and Italian aussies to feel lukewarm about the roos? Is the next generation just more fickle?

In any case the reality is we need to swallow our pride and strategically cap players before they are ready and "sell the shirt" to them
Click to expand...
JS96 said:
The first one, yes. I was at Frankfurt airport the other day and a travelling group of Paraguayan kids all had a suitcase stretch cover of the flag with their name draped entirely across their suitcase. Of course I booed and told them see you in June. You see more Australian flags at international festivals but do these things aside from a Matildas game and it's 'not inclusive'. Not just flags but promoting Australiana in generally gets a retort with 'other cultures have great things too'. It's often self loathing white Australians who do this and then ask a Vietnamese or Greek person and they'll say 'Australia's the best'.

2: I wouldn't think so given the number of players we've had with that heritage since the A League.

3: Probably the biggest one. International football is seen more and more as a luxury toy. Probably not at the pinnacle tournament but I'd love to see something of an England EFL select or a German squad with many Bundesliga 2 players. The passion would be insurmountable. Sports like handball, ice hockey and basketball have their best players but the international game is less diluted than football.

The irony is it's never been more comfortable to fly and recover but players still see Australia as a travel hassle and Europe offers a lot of conveniences.
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I think this is unfortunately the uncomfortable truth. The closer you get to the cities, the less patriotic people are. Now of course the vast majority of Aussies are still patriotic, as evident by fans and players singing the anthem and most Aussies wanting to keep our anthem, flag and Australia Day the same. But we keep hearing about how ā€œbadā€ Australia is from the small minority. I think somewhere along the line we lost the idea that anyone was Australian regardless of their heritage, and changed it to ā€œyou are X, but you live in Australiaā€. I saw a screenshot on r/Aussie of someoneā€™s post on Snapchat after the horrible Bondi shootings where someone was calling for Islam to rule the world and calling us ā€œAussie scumā€ despite living here, and we were all disgusted.
 
grazorblade said:
There has been a real generation change in the left where the younger generation see patriotism and a compassionate inclusive vision for society as incompatible. JFK was a leftie who said "ask not what your country can do for you" the labour party wrote our national anthem, our most patriotic song by the seekers is also a song of multiculturalism. Critique of society to make it fairer was always from a place of patriotism (It's "unaustralian" to be unfair) Curious how this change happened, I'm probably an old fuddy duddy old school socialist who doesn't get it I guess haha. Hopefully the consequences for society for self loathing
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I think leftism has changed a lot to be fair. Labor also supported the racist White Australia Policy longer than the Coalition (they supported it until about the late 60s) and people like Arthur Calwell believed that only European and Indigenous Australians were ā€œreal Australiansā€ and even said he didnā€™t wanna let Americans in because they would have to accept Black Americans (he referred to them as ā€œUS Negroesā€). Nowadays theyā€™re the party of mass immigration. America is a bit different since their parties kinda swapped (youā€™ll often hear how Democrats used to support slavery and opposed civil rights, and Abe Lincoln was a Republican), but the Democrats still changed their form of leftism as time went on. Even Bill Clinton opposed mass immigration.
 
HonestSpursFan said:
I think this is unfortunately the uncomfortable truth. The closer you get to the cities, the less patriotic people are. Now of course the vast majority of Aussies are still patriotic, as evident by fans and players singing the anthem and most Aussies wanting to keep our anthem, flag and Australia Day the same. But we keep hearing about how ā€œbadā€ Australia is from the small minority. I think somewhere along the line we lost the idea that anyone was Australian regardless of their heritage, and changed it to ā€œyou are X, but you live in Australiaā€. I saw a screenshot on r/Aussie of someoneā€™s post on Snapchat after the horrible Bondi shootings where someone was calling for Islam to rule the world and calling us ā€œAussie scumā€ despite living here, and we were all disgusted.
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As shut down as it is in Germany, when the world cup is on people come out in droves and it's become something of a reclaiming of their cities from the new riff raff. Admittedly migrant families who've been there for generations are also fed up while champagne socialists deny there is a problem even when someone they know gets stabbed. It's the same on Hannover match day. The clowns from Algeria Eritrea make themselves scarce as there is a large number of local men around to prevent harassment of women or petty crime.

It's the same for Australia during a tournament. Everyone comes out in their colours as do other nations and it's a good time.

I think you're right that it is a loud minority and a lot of people of all kinds make society a good place to be. Good people are fed up with the weak laws and courts that let criminals walk free.
 
HonestSpursFan said:
I think leftism has changed a lot to be fair. Labor also supported the racist White Australia Policy longer than the Coalition (they supported it until about the late 60s) and people like Arthur Calwell believed that only European and Indigenous Australians were ā€œreal Australiansā€ and even said he didnā€™t wanna let Americans in because they would have to accept Black Americans (he referred to them as ā€œUS Negroesā€). Nowadays theyā€™re the party of mass immigration. America is a bit different since their parties kinda swapped (youā€™ll often hear how Democrats used to support slavery and opposed civil rights, and Abe Lincoln was a Republican), but the Democrats still changed their form of leftism as time went on. Even Bill Clinton opposed mass immigration.
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Merkel a few years before she became Chancellor 'we will uphold our border sovereignty and strictly decide who can enter or not'.
 
grazorblade said:
There has been a real generation change in the left where the younger generation see patriotism and a compassionate inclusive vision for society as incompatible. JFK was a leftie who said "ask not what your country can do for you" the labour party wrote our national anthem, our most patriotic song by the seekers is also a song of multiculturalism. Critique of society to make it fairer was always from a place of patriotism (It's "unaustralian" to be unfair) Curious how this change happened, I'm probably an old fuddy duddy old school socialist who doesn't get it I guess haha. Hopefully the consequences for society for self loathing


I'd be curious if any supporters of grassroots clubs with a migrant heritage to weigh in, did their connection with the socceroos get more lukewarm? I read a paper by some researchers who studied assimilation efforts and found heavy handed assimilation efforts tend to backfire. Excluding "ethnic" clubs and the ncip definitely fit into that category!


That's sad because its coming at a time where a lot of fans are complaining about how club football is feeling inauthentic due it just be coorporation a vs corporation b with no one from the local area
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A couple of years ago I was talking to a Brazilian friend and she said she missed the good old days when Brazilians and Argentinians would play to cripple and humiliate each other. These days most of them are team mates in a European club and prefer the filthy lucre rather than play for their country.
 
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