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U20 WC 2025 Australia match thread

JS96 said:
Glad Esposito and Okon will be getting senior football soon. Hall needs a loan and even the English 6th tier at this rate is fine for a year. He has to get playing against men.
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Okon is the one young player that plays in the midfield that looks to have a higher ceiling than robbo/triantis
Esposito looked to go to a new level against italy
 
grazorblade said:
I thought okon was super strong on the night but was ball watching, was his defensive contribution week?
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I haven't looked at a replay, but live thought Okon Jr was less involved against Italy than in the lead up games in Asia. It might be different if I looked at a replay and compiled stats - where one is forced to slow a lot of play down. Okon Jr could have done a lot of subtle things well, that are harder to identify live.

That was a slick pitch. I was thinking how many Aussies had improved since I had last seen them play and they enjoyed the fast pitch, displaying good ball control.

Okon Jr was one of the outstanding players in the Asian qualifiers. Against ltaly, he seemed to be caught in possession a bit. Or if ever I saw something really good that an Aussie player did, it was never him, until the 92nd minute when he beat 2 players in succession.

Badolato, Youlley, Quintal, Bennie and Pearman all did some slick things. Probably most of the team did.

I thought Australia were just as good as Italy technically. This has never been the case in the past. That is, that Aus at any level has matched any UEFA Big Five national team technically of games I've seen - first touch, handling speed, body position, 1v1 defensive and attacking skills, running with the ball, as well as striking the ball.

I think I saw that Italy might have had a few more shots at goal and a few more on target with on camera stats.

Italy were probably a little more organised without the ball, holding team shape a bit better when Aus had the ball, or in Italy's Defensive Defensive Transitions. I don't think Aus tired as much as I had been led to believe. Aus could have been awarded 2 pens too.

Overall Australia's players on the ball assumed good body shape when receiving and passing on the fast, slick playing surface. The handling speed was impressive. No better than Italy's, but they are a UEFA and world powerhouse. Did we have sluggish pitches in the Asian qualifiers? I can't remember?

There were some superb instances of Badolato and Youlley getting quickly into perfect body position , very quickly, whilst under time and space Italian pressure, to execute well weighted one touch passes to a teammate in a better, more advanced position in the build up. It was good to watch.
 
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Decentric said:
I haven't looked at a replay, but live thought Okon Jr was less involved against Italy than in the lead up games in Asia. It might be different if I looked at a replay and compiled stats - where one is forced to slow a lot of play down. Okon Jr could have done a lot of subtle things well, that are harder to identify live.

That was a slick pitch. I was thinking how many Aussies had improved since I had last seen them play and they enjoyed the fast pitch, displaying good ball control.

Okon Jr was one of the outstanding players in the Asian qualifiers. Against ltaly, he seemed to be caught in possession a bit. Or if ever I saw something really good that an Aussie player did, it was never him, until the 92nd minute when he beat 2 players in succession.

Badolato, Youlley, Quintal, Bennie and Pearman all did some slick things. Probably most of the team did.

I thought Australia were just as good as Italy technically. This has never been the case in the past. That is, that Aus at any level has matched any UEFA Big Five national team technically of games I've seen - first touch, handling speed, body position, 1v1 defensive and attacking skills, running with the ball, as well as striking the ball.

I think I saw that Italy might have had a few more shots at goal and a few more on target with on camera stats.

Italy were probably a little more organised without the ball, holding team shape a bit better when Aus had the ball, or in Italy's Defensive Defensive Transitions. I don't think Aus tired as much as I had been led to believe. Aus could have been awarded 2 pens too.

Overall Australia's players on the ball assumed good body shape when receiving and passing on the fast, slick playing surface. The handling speed was impressive. No better than Italy's, but they are a UEFA and world powerhouse. Did we have sluggish pitches in the Asian qualifiers? I can't remember?

There were some superb instances of Badaolato and Youlley getting quickly into perfect body position , very quickly, whilst under time and space Italian pressure, to execute well weighted one touch passes to a teammate in a better, more advanced position in the build up. It was good to watch.
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yeah curious about the replay, thought okon was a standout every time he touched the ball, but only noticed some nice moments from youlley when seeing the highlights
 
grazorblade said:
Okon is the one young player that plays in the midfield that looks to have a higher ceiling than robbo/triantis
Esposito looked to go to a new level against italy
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Players being so young, it is hard to predict ceilings in the future. They chop and change so much.

I missed Triantis' AL season. Ever since I've seen him him play a few games for the Aus U23s, or in Scotland, he has looked nothing special.

Robertson looked classy in his Socceroo cameo.

To suggest that they will exceed all of the current and emerging mids we have, is a big call. They might yet play key roles for a Big Five club, or one of the Big 30 clubs dispersed in UEFA. Bos, Balard, Circati and Metcalfe are achieving this. I think Toure's club is a big Danish club too?

From the last games in the Asian qualifiers, Okon Jr looked great, but just in this game against Italy, he appeared to have a poor game, comparatively.

I think it is a big call to claim at a young age, that Triantis and Robertson will exceed current Socceroos or Socceroo hopefuls from all of Valadon, McGree, Nieuw, Bozinovski, Chapman, Teague, Balard, O'Neill, Yazbek, Youlley, Segecic, Deli, Nisbet, Thurgate, Jake Hollman, et al. It is highly unlikely.

Some are currently paying at a higher level in better leagues - but in just a few months things can change fast. Some like Nisbet and Jake H are playing in poor club scenarios ATM though.

Having said this though, now after having a much better look at Bos, Circati, Mo Toure, Chapman, Balard and Iran, playing against a quality senior Kiwi team, all have risen in my ratings after close scrutinisation. Of course it could happen with Triantis and Robbo too - but they don't want to pull the shirt on.

Triantis may well get a run with Greece, but Robbo may not play any more international football at all.

With a foul that Esposito conceded close to the Aus goal, he tackled with the wrong foot. He tackled with his left when it should have been his right. Far more experienced players do this as well though. Having said this, I think Esposito has improved.
 
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grazorblade said:
yeah curious about the replay, thought okon was a standout every time he touched the ball, but only noticed some nice moments from youlley when seeing the highlights
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It wouldn't be the first time I've changed my view on a player after looking at a replay.

Was Okon Jr less comfortable with less time and space on the ball from Italian Squeezing than he received from Asian teams?
 
Decentric said:
Players being so young, it is hard to predict ceilings in the future. They chop and change so much.

I missed Triantis' AL season. Ever since I've seen him him play a few games for the Aus U23s, or in Scotland, he has looked nothing special.

Robertson looked classy in his Socceroo cameo.

To suggest that they will exceed all of the current and emerging mids we have, is a big call. They might yet play key roles for a Big Five club, or one of the Big 30 clubs dispersed in UEFA. Bos, Balard, Circati and Chapman are achieving this. I think Toure's club is a big Danish club too?

From the last games in the Asian qualifiers, Okon Jr looked great, but just in this game against Italy, he appeared to have a poor game, comparatively.

I think it is a big call to claim at a young age, that Triantis and Robertson will exceed current Socceroos or Socceroo hopefuls from all of Valadon, McGree, Nieuw, Bozinovski, Chapman, Teague, Balard, O'Neill, Yazbek, Youlley, Segecic, Deli, Nisbet, Thurgate, Jake Hollman, et al. It is highly unlikely.

Some are currently paying at a higher level in better leagues - but in just a few months things can change fast. Some like Nisbet and Jake H are playing in poor club scenarios ATM though.

Having said this though, now after having a much better look at Bos, Circati, Mo Toure, Chapman, Balard and Iran, playing against a quality senior Kiwi team, all have risen in my ratings after close scrutinisation. Of course it coul dhappen woth Traantis and Robbo too - bu they pdnt wan to pull the short on.

Triantis may well get a run with Greece, but Robbo may not play any more international football at all.

With a foul that Esposito conceded close to the Aus goal, he tackled with the wrong foot. He tackled with his left when it should have been his right. Far more experienced players do this as well though. Having said this, I think Esposito has improved.
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ceiling isn't really a prediction though - its more an assessment of their potential without predicting whether they will reach it

I think if a player reaches a similar level at club level at a younger age they have a higher ceiling

Toure's club is ok, usually finish around 4th in denmark. Will hopefully jump a league soon but needs to dominate the league first. Fingers crossed, we haven't had a striker at that level for a while

Who do you mean by Chapman in that list? Balard also is playing for a midtableside in the eredivisie, so wouldn't put him yet in the same group as bos and circati. If you haven't seen triantis play for years why comment on how he was many years ago? I disagree about Okon's performance on Monday but might change my mind on replay if I find the chance to watch
 
JS96 said:
Felt our fullbacks were dodgy. I guess Talladira is like Rowles who is a pure defender and can't do too much with the ball. I'd start even go as far as starting Bennie at RWB and have Overy on the left as he's got better movement and skill.
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Harsh on Rowles. Outside Circati, IMO Rowles is our best ball playing Socceroo CB.

Again live, I think Talladira has improved.

I thought the team ball movement/ball circulation against Italy was some of the fastest I've seen Aussie teams play.

In Asia I thought Bennie and Okon Jr were our best, but against Italy others seemed to have caught up.
 
grazorblade said:
ceiling isn't really a prediction though - its more an assessment of their potential without predicting whether they will reach it

I think if a player reaches a similar level at club level at a younger age they have a higher ceiling

Toure's club is ok, usually finish around 4th in denmark. Will hopefully jump a league soon but needs to dominate the league first. Fingers crossed, we haven't had a striker at that level for a while

Who do you mean by Chapman in that list? Balard also is playing for a midtableside in the eredivisie, so wouldn't put him yet in the same group as bos and circati. If you haven't seen triantis play for years why comment on how he was many years ago? I disagree about Okon's performance on Monday but might change my mind on replay if I find the chance to watch
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At any time in history, we could go back to senior Socceroos, Aus Under 23s, Aus U 20s, and players will have faded out who looked good at age 20-21. Then others kick on late!

Burgess has kicked on - late. Ditto Jedi and Milligan.

Chris Herd ( EPL player), Josh Brillante ( Serie A), Ursum Gulum (?), Stu Musalik, Kaz Patafta, Ben Kantarovski, Kristian Sarkies, all peaked early, or faded out inexplicably. Trent Sainsbury is arguably another.

I've seen Triantis play Scottish Cup games. One was against Celtic, where he barely touched the ball - like all the Hibs team.

Generically, the Big Five are ranked 1-5, Eredivisie is ranked 6th, Begium 7th and Portugal 8th in UEFA.

So Balard, Circati ( current low ranked Serie A club), Chapman, Bos, Hrustic, are ostensibly playing at higher standard of club football than most other Aussie outfielders. O'Neill was last season.
 
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Decentric said:
Harsh on Rowles. Outside Circati, IMO Rowles is our best ball playing Socceroo CB.

Again live, I think Talladira has improved.

I thought the team ball movement/ball circulation against Italy was some of the fastest I've seen Aussie teams play.

In Asia I thought Bennie and Okon Jr were our best, but against Italy others seemed to have caught up.
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I don't think Rowles has ever landed a long ball on a dime compared to Circati, Souttar and Burgess. He's fine at distributing quickly from the back but that's a rudimentary part of the game and almost passing the buck. Your analysis of his NZ performance was correct that he was defensively strong. Talladira looks so rigid and uncomfortable akin to a 49 rated youth player on a video game. He was definitely better defensively than Inserra.
 
Decentric said:
At any time in history, we could go back to senior Socceroos, Aus Under 23s, Aus U 20s, and players will have faded out who looked good at age 20-21. Then others kick on late!

Burgess has kicked on - late. Ditto Jedi and Milligan.

Chris Herd ( EPL player), Josh Brillante ( Serie A), Ursum Gulum (?), Stu Musalik, Kaz Patafta, Ben Kantarovski, Kristian Sarkies, all peaked early, or faded out inexplicably. Trent Sainsbury is arguably another.

I've seen Triantis play Scottish Cup games. One was against Celtic, where he barely touched the ball - like all the Hibs team.

Generically, the Big Five are ranked 1-5, Eredivisie is ranked 6th, Begium 7th and Portugal 8th in UEFA.

So Balard, Circati ( current low ranked Serie A club), Chapman, Bos, Hrustic, are ostensibly playing at higher standard of club football than most other Aussie outfielders. O'Neill was last season.
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Isn't that list the bench of that China dead rubber in 08? I remember a lot of those lad being elevated but they didn't kick on. Herd was a very odd case with some personal issues too.

Which Chapman are you referring to?
 
JS96 said:
I don't think Rowles has ever landed a long ball on a dime compared to Circati, Souttar and Burgess. He's fine at distributing quickly from the back but that's a rudimentary part of the game and almost passing the buck. Your analysis of his NZ performance was correct that he was defensively strong. Talladira looks so rigid and uncomfortable akin to a 49 rated youth player on a video game. He was definitely better defensively than Inserra.
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Good point!

Grazor raised it a while back - maybe a year ago?

Souttar, Burgess, and Circati in particular can play those long diagonal balls accurately.

Rowles has faster handling speed and a more assured first touch on both sides of the body in tight spaces than Souttar, Burgess, Deg, and maybe Geria?
 
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JS96 said:
Isn't that list the bench of that China dead rubber in 08? I remember a lot of those lad being elevated but they didn't kick on. Herd was a very odd case with some personal issues too.

Which Chapman are you referring to?
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Connor Metcalfe!

My bad! Will change!

Not one time in history. It is a repeating occurrence. Even some players who are currently on an upward trajectory will make a bad club move, get a new coach who doesn't recognise their qualities, they get injured, or just fade out.
 
Decentric said:
Connor Metcalfe!

My bad! Will change!

Not one time in history. It is a repeating occurrence. Even some players who are currently on an upward trajectory will make a bad club move, get a new coach who doesn't recognise their qualities, they get injured, or just fade out.
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We should Ask Charlie Austin what he thinks of Connor Chapman :D

I'm a bit concerned about Metcalfe's position at club level. He's been doing well for Australia but the coach has new players preferred. It makes me wonder how Irvine will fit in upon returning too.
 
Decentric said:
At any time in history, we could go back to senior Socceroos, Aus Under 23s, Aus U 20s, and players will have faded out who looked good at age 20-21. Then others kick on late!

Burgess has kicked on - late. Ditto Jedi and Milligan.

Chris Herd ( EPL player), Josh Brillante ( Serie A), Ursum Gulum (?), Stu Musalik, Kaz Patafta, Ben Kantarovski, Kristian Sarkies, all peaked early, or faded out inexplicably. Trent Sainsbury is arguably another.

I've seen Triantis play Scottish Cup games. One was against Celtic, where he barely touched the ball - like all the Hibs team.

Generically, the Big Five are ranked 1-5, Eredivisie is ranked 6th, Begium 7th and Portugal 8th in UEFA.

So Balard, Circati ( current low ranked Serie A club), Chapman, Bos, Hrustic, are ostensibly playing at higher standard of club football than most other Aussie outfielders. O'Neill was last season.
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I dont think the fact some people don't reach their potential contradicts anything I said about ceiling being a statement about potential rather than ceiling. At the moment Triantis and robertson are roughly as good as balard and O'Niell but younger so I would say that they would usually develop into stronger players. I don't think a single scottish cup game is much to go on

Having said that, I disagree with the list of players you gave

Chris herd - probably the best example from that list had his best season as a u23 where he managed 20 games in all competitions, including games where he came on as a sub. I wouldn't yet call them an epl player, but clearly playing often enough to be optimistic about his future
Brilliante played 2 seri a games 1 season and 1 the following. I wouldn't count him as a seri a player.
Ursum Gulum ended up a good player but played for turkey rather than us. Managed to make the national team and wouldve been a good player. I think he met expectations
Stu Musalik - not sure why he is on that list
Kaz Patafta - ditto
Ben Kanta - ditto
Kristian Sarkies - ditto
Trent Sainsbury - Ok player, best season played 24 games in the eredivisie and that was his peak

I wouldn't pay as much attention to uefa rankings, which can be as flawed as fifa rankings, as elo. Clubelo.com has most teams and leagues
 
JS96 said:
We should Ask Charlie Austin what he thinks of Connor Chapman :D

I'm a bit concerned about Metcalfe's position at club level. He's been doing well for Australia but the coach has new players preferred. It makes me wonder how Irvine will fit in upon returning too.
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he is getting minutes every week which is a good sign. Are there cup games to come? As long as those minutes are around 1000 and he plays 25+ games (including NT) in a season he shouldn't go backwards
 
will have to rewatch in chunks, but rewatched the first 20 minutes

Youlley better on rewatch
Okon has made one mistake in possession so far but has been our 2nd best player, fantastic with and without the ball
Esposito even better on rewatch. Some key tackles, good long pass, difficult intercepts
kikianis messed up for the goal but we knew that
Inserra better on rewatch
Toure not combining well. Will try and figure out why
Bennie incredible too
 
It is interesting how opinions to converge after watching replays

a couple of exceptions - @JS96 and @Decentric still disagree about how positive Behich's passing is after watching a replay. I also disagreed with him once on a club game where I thought Geria struggled to get into positions quickly enough to win aerial duals which I put down to jetlag slowing his reactions down and still agree with myself :D

will be curious if people change their mind about okon! He looks great apart from 1 mistake so far
 
Ok finished the first half. Rest will have to wait

main player I changed my mind on was inserra who I thought looked goodish on replay
 
NZ up 2-1
definitely jealous of this group
looks way easier
 
Decentric said:
I think it is a big call to claim at a young age, that Triantis and Robertson will exceed current Socceroos or Socceroo hopefuls from all of Valadon, McGree, Nieuw, Bozinovski, Chapman, Teague, Balard, O'Neill, Yazbek, Youlley, Segecic, Deli, Nisbet, Thurgate, Jake Hollman, et al. It is highly unlikely.
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This a pretty wild assessment. Having read quite a few of your posts I feel you heavily weight in favour of players you've seen play well in youth tournaments for Australia or in the AL. You heavily weight against players who play poorly in youth tournaments, who play in Scotland or have questioned their national allegiance. You don't weight heavily enough a players senior club form and club level. That's just an observation.

The careers that Robertson and Triantis are having outstrips contemporaries like Teague, Hollman, Nisbet, Thurgate et al. It's too early to predict with Valadon, Bozinovski, Deli et al. Segecic is the guy in the coversation based on playing qualities and club career.
 
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