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Breaking Barriers - web series 📺

An irony in our culture is the people most panicked about relegation are the very people whose passion would make it work. People like u would keep the club alive and equally important, ensure relegation was short lived and make sure the club learns its lessons and reforms in any way needed. The board would be forced to talk to people like u to figure out how to bounce back and diagnose what went wrong
The problem here lies with the huge area - but low density - around 200 per square kilometre. I have a 8 min or 14 minute drive. South Melbourne is 25 to 50 times more dense.

A high profile team may get a lot of people from an hour away. An NPL team maybe 20-30 minutes drive.
 
I agree with what you say but AGAIN why are we protecting Aleague franchises, even after 20 years? Why is THAT the consideration in anything?
My intent was more about wanting a long-term vision and transparent criteria that about protecting the A-League franchises. In my haste to post I didn't do a good job of making that clear.

My intent was to say that there is some protection for the A-League clubs due to the fact we won't get to two full divisions for some time. It is purely coincidental and not a deliberate mechanism to protect them. If they can't have methods for surviving potential a drop out of the second division in even 10-15 years time, then they really do deserve to be relegated and if that means no longer existing... I'm not sure they were ever a viable proposition.

I think most of us agree two of the top things our football eco-system needs (or to at least try) is a national second division, and a connected pyramid with promotion and relegation. The moment the Championship becomes a home and away league I'd say we've achieved the first.

I don't think P&R is possible with a singular national league above the NPL's. The talent and exposure is spread too thinly over too many leagues to create the proper breeding ground for ambitious clubs. The question becomes how many clubs is 'enough' for the top two divisions? Is it 32 (16/16), 28 (14/14), 24 (12/12)?

Until you get to whatever that number is, you have no need to relegate anyone. If you think 28 is the right number, and you get there but have 8 more clubs ready and able to play on the national level, do six of them miss out and two from the NSD get sent down to NPL? Or do you find a way to add them into the national structure? What happens when the 8 clubs becomes 10 clubs, 12, 14 - do we stay at 28 over two divisions forever?

I understand there's a sweet spot where you need to start relegating teams from the national leagues back to the NPL to incentivize against mediocrity. Getting the balance right would be a critical part in the whole structure - too many clubs/divisions and it dilutes the whole purpose of P&R, but too few and you create a bottleneck at the NPL level that stifles ambition.

As another poster mentioned, the chances of getting clear objective criteria that don't suddenly shift to suit the APL and FA's agenda does seem unlikely at this current point in time. But if we had it, as @grazorblade mentioned, we'd start to see money flowing into clubs and football infrastructure. It already is... just look at the improvement in the quality on the pitch and the off-field work NPL clubs are doing. Imagine that, but with clear goals and ambitions to aim for!

It's all just hopes and dreams until we get some sort of clear strategy and vision...
 
The problem here lies with the huge area - but low density - around 200 per square kilometre. I have a 8 min or 14 minute drive. South Melbourne is 25 to 50 times more dense.

A high profile team may get a lot of people from an hour away. An NPL team maybe 20-30 minutes drive.
Oh i have no doubt crowds would go down (though they decline much less if the pyramid is open. Global average in one paper i think is 25 percent per division dropped) so revenue goes down. But expenses go down even quicker in an open pyramid. Wage bills plummet, staff get cut, travel costs drop, marketing plummets

What makes a pyramid viable is it slows the rate revenue goes down when u get relegated (because hope keeps people stick around for longer) but doesnt slow the rate expenses go down as much (though it does slow this too because clubs overspend to try and get back up quickly)
 
It misses a lot of benefits but it has three benefits

1) p and r between a 1st and 2nd tier makes a second tier more viable
2) stakes in the top tier of getting relegated down to the 2nd
3) transparent criteria for getting promoted from below 3rd tier so clubs know what to aim for

It has negatives
1) slower growth of participation rate and national tier ready clubs due to difficult access to the top tier
2) potential atrophy at the bottom of the 2nd tier due to a lack of stakes leading to a steeper drop in quality
This is my main concern.
 
The problem here lies with the huge area - but low density - around 200 per square kilometre. I have a 8 min or 14 minute drive. South Melbourne is 25 to 50 times more dense.

A high profile team may get a lot of people from an hour away. An NPL team maybe 20-30 minutes drive.
The difference between a geographic community and a club community is that I happily drive 45 mins every second week to watch my lads run around... not to mention hours eiother way fro away days :)

Point being connection is connection .. I think the whole fish where the fish are argument was ridiculous...
 
The difference between a geographic community and a club community is that I happily drive 45 mins every second week to watch my lads run around... not to mention hours eiother way fro away days :)

Point being connection is connection .. I think the whole fish where the fish are argument was ridiculous...
So will I - but many won't- didn’t go last night as I was in Canberra.
 
Yeah but the NPL: clubs dont NEED protecting to survive
I don't know man, it's a lot more expensive up there than it used to be, I certainly worry that not all clubs could manage that drop from a professional environment.

But survival aside, the idea is to grow the leagues, dropping teams out just isn't necessary (they'll be booted out anyway if they really suck, like NZK, NQ, GC, WU). Even the Championship wasn't going to have relegation whilst it grows, at least, although AAFC wanted it.

The more important question is, why doesn't NSW League 2 have relegation? 😄 Actually, do they even have promotion?
 
I don't know man, it's a lot more expensive up there than it used to be, I certainly worry that not all clubs could manage that drop from a professional environment.

But survival aside, the idea is to grow the leagues, dropping teams out just isn't necessary (they'll be booted out anyway if they really suck, like NZK, NQ, GC, WU). Even the Championship wasn't going to have relegation whilst it grows, at least, although AAFC wanted it.

The more important question is, why doesn't NSW League 2 have relegation? 😄 Actually, do they even have promotion?
NZK, NQ, GC and WU folding financially are exactly WHY you should have relegation. Thats 4 sets of adminsitrators, coaches, physios etc that are lost from the game in some capactiy.. IF they could drop down a level they can better their operations on and off the pitch and come back stronger.

I dont care how many people watch it or buy the merchandise... I want the Australian national AND club teams to dream of wining international trophies , not just celebrating qualifying. I believe for that to happen clubs and players must learn to accept the carrot and the stick of merit based football.
 
NZK, NQ, GC and WU folding financially are exactly WHY you should have relegation. Thats 4 sets of adminsitrators, coaches, physios etc that are lost from the game in some capactiy.. IF they could drop down a level they can better their operations on and off the pitch and come back stronger.
Yeah I agree, I've said the exact same thing many times, most recently about Mariners. I think both of us are so invested in the game that we've ended up contradicting ourselves 😅. You did say that the APL clubs need protecting to survive, now it's they can survive via relegation. And I've done the same thing haha! I need a coffee.
 
Yeah I agree, I've said the exact same thing many times, most recently about Mariners. I think both of us are so invested in the game that we've ended up contradicting ourselves 😅. You did say that the APL clubs need protecting to survive, now it's they can survive via relegation. And I've done the same thing haha! I need a coffee.
My shout for that coffee :)
 
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