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Muz said:
'Proselytising' relates only to religion but I assume you mean trying to convince people to become atheists.

I'm not telling anyone to become an atheist. That's a personal realisation you might come to yourself if you give your belief system any sort of critical evaluation.

And no, atheism is not a belief system as much religious people would like to frame it as such.
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I actually prefer agnostic. I don't believe mankind is smart enough to understand our universe. The more science, the more absolutes are overturned.

We have strong evidence for inflation and the hot Big Bang from Cosmic Microwave Background (CMB) observations, but the absolute origin — if the question even makes sense without time — is still frontier territory. No theory requires a supernatural "creator" for matter, but none fully rules anything out either. It's one of the few places where science says: "We don't know yet, but we're working on it."

I think that is my point. when you are pushing your opinion you are proselytising.

Proselytising is not a religious only term - it can be applied to Amway, politics and other causes.

Proselytising atheism (e.g., "New Atheists" aggressively promoting non-belief), veganism (vegans sometimes described as proselytizing their ethical stance), or even scientific hypotheses.
 
patjennings said:
I actually prefer agnostic. I don't believe mankind is smart enough to understand our universe. The more science, the more absolutes are overturned.

We have strong evidence for inflation and the hot Big Bang from Cosmic Microwave Background (CMB) observations, but the absolute origin — if the question even makes sense without time — is still frontier territory. No theory requires a supernatural "creator" for matter, but none fully rules anything out either. It's one of the few places where science says: "We don't know yet, but we're working on it."

I think that is my point. when you are pushing your opinion you are proselytising.

Proselytising is not a religious only term - it can be applied to Amway, politics and other causes.

Proselytising atheism (e.g., "New Atheists" aggressively promoting non-belief), veganism (vegans sometimes described as proselytizing their ethical stance), or even scientific hypotheses.
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Wasn't the definition I read but ok.

en.wikipedia.org

Proselytism - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org

But again I'm not telling anyone to be an atheist.

You are correct. You cannot be 100% sure there's no god but you also can't be 100% sure there aren't fairies at the bottom of your garden either. Evidence is equally lacking for both.
 
Beretta said:
www.theguardian.com

Man jailed for a year after endorsing neo-Nazi views and making antisemitic speech at Sydney rally on Australia Day

Brandan Koschel sentenced to 12 months behind bars for intentionally inciting hatred at March for Australia protest
www.theguardian.com www.theguardian.com

1 year jail time over words lol

But a pedo in Australia got less
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I said exactly this would happen when all the conservatives and media were jumping up and down after bondi demanding laws on speech

They thought it would nail the lefties but was clear it would be guys like him.

For the record its a ridiculous sentence
 
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Muz said:
Wasn't the definition I read but ok.

en.wikipedia.org

Proselytism - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org

But again I'm not telling anyone to be an atheist.

You are correct. You cannot be 100% sure but you also can't be 100% sure there aren't fairies at the bottom of your garden.
Click to expand...
Again - my point - you're 99.9999% the religion of their parents is coerced or indoctrination onto their children. Doesn't the same coercion or indoctrination apply to atheists.
 
Beretta said:
www.theguardian.com

Man jailed for a year after endorsing neo-Nazi views and making antisemitic speech at Sydney rally on Australia Day

Brandan Koschel sentenced to 12 months behind bars for intentionally inciting hatred at March for Australia protest
www.theguardian.com www.theguardian.com

1 year jail time over words lol

But a pedo in Australia got less
Click to expand...
Yep and the analysis of the words used by clerics and Grace Tame is the same if not worse and not a flinch by authorities. I mean, if they're going to clamp down on it all...
 
The offensive, abhorrent language was then followed up by neo-Nazi symbolism, the magistrate said.

The 34-year-old finished his speech by “heiling” white Australia and Thomas Sewell, the leader of Australia’s most prominent neo-Nazi group, the now-disbanded National Socialist Network.

Yet what type of reprimand is appropriate for this behaviour. This isn't some harmless sharing of opinion. Do it in Germany and you'll also be in a lot of trouble.
 
patjennings said:
Again - my point - you're 99.9999% the religion of their parents is coerced or indoctrination onto their children. Doesn't the same coercion or indoctrination apply to atheists.
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Well it depends. Were both parents atheists or religious? Given the ubiquitousness of religion one would hazard to guess most atheists had religious parents. I have no stats to back that up though but there'd be some truth in it.

Personally my mum is devout, my dad less so. I'm grateful for that because it gave me room to question my beliefs. And they were fully instilled beliefs. I was a full on 7th dan catholic as a kid. Baptism, confession, communion, church every week, prayed at night before bed, the whole shebang. (Hail Mary's scared me because of the 'if I die before I wake' line.)

I never indoctrinated our kids though, just kept asking them what do they think when they asked questions around god and religion. Probing them and letting them work it out themselves is something to see.

It's amazing how smart and perceptive kids can be if you let them be. I know you want to frame atheism as a belief system, it's not.

Atheism is a lack of belief in a god(s), not a set of doctrines, scriptures, or shared practices.

You don't, well nobody here does as well, believe in Thor, Woden, Venus, Gnesaha. You reject all those gods.

As Ricky Gervais said, everyone is an atheist to all the other gods except theirs. I've just gone one god further.
 
Fuck me. These people are running the show.

Wish I could tell the wife I saved $400 dollars and reprioritised that money, bought a $400 fishing reel and still saved money.

 
Muz said:
Well it depends. Were both parents atheists or religious? Given the ubiquitousness of religion one would hazard to guess most atheists had religious parents. I have no stats to back that up though but there'd be some truth in it.

Personally my mum is devout, my dad less so. I'm grateful for that because it gave me room to question my beliefs. And they were fully instilled beliefs. I was a full on 7th dan catholic as a kid. Baptism, confession, communion, church every week, prayed at night before bed, the whole shebang. (Hail Mary's scared me because of the 'if I die before I wake' line.)

I never indoctrinated our kids though, just kept asking them what do they think when they asked questions around god and religion. Probing them and letting them work it out themselves is something to see.

It's amazing how smart and perceptive kids can be if you let them be. I know you want to frame atheism as a belief system, it's not.

Atheism is a lack of belief in a god(s), not a set of doctrines, scriptures, or shared practices.

You don't, well nobody here does as well, believe in Thor, Woden, Venus, Gnesaha. You reject all those gods.

As Ricky Gervais said, everyone is an atheist to all the other gods except theirs. I've just gone one god further.
Click to expand...

I don't want to frame it like that at all. It seems like you have given your kids the right to think for themselves. But that is not the way you are being perceived by me and I suspect others on this forum.
 
patjennings said:
I don't want to frame it like that at all. It seems like you have given your kids the right to think for themselves. But that is not the way you are being perceived by me and I suspect others on this forum.
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I'm not here to change religious peoples minds. I just said it meets the literal definition of indoctrination.

People take umbrage because deep down they know its true. They might have all the best intentions in the world and historical, family and cultural reasons for instilling a religion on their blank canvas but that doesn't change the facts.

We ended up in this discussion because someone suggest Scientology was a cult and I said well they all are and if Scientology is a cult what about Mormonism or is there a cut off date for religions.

Crickets.
 
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JS96 said:
The offensive, abhorrent language was then followed up by neo-Nazi symbolism, the magistrate said.

The 34-year-old finished his speech by “heiling” white Australia and Thomas Sewell, the leader of Australia’s most prominent neo-Nazi group, the now-disbanded National Socialist Network.

Yet what type of reprimand is appropriate for this behaviour. This isn't some harmless sharing of opinion. Do it in Germany and you'll also be in a lot of trouble.
Click to expand...

Corporations funding anti climate change bullshit and the subsequent lies sprouted by politicians will have more negative impact than anything a clown like this says. Thats the real hate speech.

IMO unless this guy is calling for violence, organising it I don’t think he should cop anything.

Personally I don’t think it should be illegal to think like a nazi, as much as I clearly I don’t like or agree with them.

How are we policing people’s thoughts? Or opinions?

Lots of dumb cunts in Australia that could get locked up then 😂
 
Beretta said:
www.theguardian.com

Man jailed for a year after endorsing neo-Nazi views and making antisemitic speech at Sydney rally on Australia Day

Brandan Koschel sentenced to 12 months behind bars for intentionally inciting hatred at March for Australia protest
www.theguardian.com www.theguardian.com

1 year jail time over words lol

But a pedo in Australia got less
Click to expand...
Saying a group of Australians is our biggest enemy isnt just words mate... What would you say if a Serb stood on the steps of Parliament and said Australia's biggest enemy are Croatians? Thats a call to action, you dont call someone your enemy if you dont expect the people listening to do something about it.....
 
Muz said:
I'm not here to change religious peoples minds. I just said it meets the literal definition of indoctrination.

People take umbrage because deep down they know its true. They might have all the best intentions in the world and historical, family and cultural reasons for instilling a religion on their blank canvas but that doesn't change the facts.

We ended up in this discussion because someone suggest Scientology was a cult and I said well they all are and if Scientology is a cult what about Mormonism or is there a cut off date for religions.

Crickets.
Click to expand...
So you don't understand the difference between a religion and a cult? Really?
 
Monoethnic Social Club said:
Saying a group of Australians is our biggest enemy isnt just words mate... What would you say if a Serb stood on the steps of Parliament and said Australia's biggest enemy are Croatians? Thats a call to action, you dont call someone your enemy if you dont expect the people listening to do something about it.....
Click to expand...

Hanson saying there is no such thing as a good Muslim is basically just the same thing or as bad. Nada for her though.
 
Muz said:
Wrong.

'Pretending' to be good person or being good person because your god told you to be for goodies in the afterlife is just transactional isn't it? And, in no small part, rather disingenuous.

I don't need promised goodies and a pretend afterlife to try and be a decent person.

Why do you need someone to tell you to try and be a decent person? Can't you just do that yourself?
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Nope, I definitely DO NOT need the bribe of eternal Paradise to want to try and be a better person, your insinuation that I would or that I or others have NOT given our belief any sort of critical evaluation is the very definition of "Atheism and the Church of Later Day Pretentiousness"


Muz said:
'Proselytising' relates only to religion but I assume you mean trying to convince people to become atheists.

I'm not telling anyone to become an atheist. That's a personal realisation you might come to yourself if you give your belief system any sort of critical evaluation.

And no, atheism is not a belief system as much religious people would like to frame it as such.
Click to expand...
The personal realisation that I have come to is that I am not always the smartest person in the room and therefore I can find the humour in those who earnestly believe they are.
 
Monoethnic Social Club said:
Saying a group of Australians is our biggest enemy isnt just words mate... What would you say if a Serb stood on the steps of Parliament and said Australia's biggest enemy are Croatians? Thats a call to action, you dont call someone your enemy if you dont expect the people listening to do something about it.....
Click to expand...

couldn't give a fuck what they say, it's only words.

1 year jail lol.

get your hand off it mono.
 
tsf said:
Hanson saying there is no such thing as a good Muslim is basically just the same thing or as bad. Nada for her though.
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Oh 100% she should be locked up forever too..... Can;'t stand the bogan racist. Im all for freedom of speech and agree, if you wanna belevie in nazism or fascims you have the right too, but its a slippery slope calling for violence or preaching fundamentalist ideas... ANY fundamentalist ideas.
 
Beretta said:
couldn't give a fuck what they say, it's only words.

1 year jail lol.

get your hand off it mono.
Click to expand...
Fair enough man, I couldn't care less either to be honest, agree its just words... But these arsehats have a lot of young followers that have NOTHING else in their lives and look up to them...You or I are mature enough to listen to the speech and take away the message and can agree or disagree with whatever the fuck the turbo is saying but there are blokes who listen, swollow the message and come back with bags of shotties and go on hunting trips in Bondi.... its NOT a future I want for my kids.
 
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