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Muz said:
I'm conflicted about this.

I'm an atheist BUT if we're all about freedom of religion, then, they're free to do what they want BUT I think there should be a specific carve out where you can't hide your face. It's more than a religious issue, the face is part of what makes us human.

But then again, freedom to practice whatever cult you belong to, including all their stupid rules. (Which of course includes circumcision. Just mental when you think about it.)

But then again religious people aren't known for thinking too hard about the 'whys' of why they do some things but not others. Better to roll with it lest you be branded a heretic and cast out like a girl I was seeing at uni was. Thought her 7 day adventist religion was a bit nuts, said as much and got told to leave and nobody from her family or congregation, and I mean nobody, spoke to her ever again. That's fucked up.
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If I see someone wearing a burqa or other religious regalia, Star of David, a Christian Cross, a Sikh Turban and so on I honestly never give it a second thought.

It's a free world and the person who is wearing it isn't hurting me....

Good luck to them. If they’re religious good on 'em. Again they’re not affecting me. I'm fairly liberal in terms of what people wear in public and religious items are no different to someone wearing a football club's shirt or a university hoody etc....
 
Football us life said:
If I see someone wearing a burqa or other religious regalia, Star of David, a Christian Cross, a Sikh Turban and so on I honestly never give it a second thought.

It's a free world and the person who is wearing it isn't hurting me....

Good luck to them. If they’re religious good on 'em. Again they’re not affecting me. I'm fairly liberal in terms of what people wear in public and religious items are no different to someone wearing a football club's shirt or a university hoody etc....
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If you do see (their face) that is.

To be honest I don't give a shit either but that doesn't mean I have to like it.

Like I said I'm not proposing a ban but I wouldn't be against it either.

France has dealt with it. I wouldn't mind betting a lot of 14 year old girls in France (or whatever age they move into them) are looking at their laws and going 'thank allah for that'.
 
Monoethnic Social Club said:
I agree, unless it is a safety requirement for identification or security purposes I think anyone can wear whatever the hell they want. Cant have mandatory masks covering the face then 2 years later tell people they cant cover their faces in public.. Pauline is a fuckin idiot.
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Exactly....

Just to be respectful to my hosts if I was a female and went to somewhere like the Middle East and it was a requirement or just culturally appropriate in that country to wear a burqa, niqab or hijab then I'd wear one. It's unlikely to happen in terms of the burqa of course because....

A) I'm not female, and

B) Foreigners are generally not required to wear a burqa anywhere in the world except maybe Iran and Taliban-controlled Afghanistan.
 
Muz said:
If you do see (their face) that is.

To be honest I don't give a shit either but that doesn't mean I have to like it.

Like I said I'm not proposing a ban but I wouldn't be against it either.

France has dealt with it. I wouldn't mind betting a lot of 14 year old girls in France (or whatever age they move into them) are looking at their laws and going 'thank allah for that'.
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I've been to France a lot and to be honest never seen many woman if any wearing an actual burqa....

Obviously loads wearing niqab or hijab, every second woman in Paris or Marseille....

As a sidebar...

There was a gang of young male criminals in London some years ago.who would wear a burqa's as disguises and browse through some of the high end jewellery stores and try and run off with the gear...

Probably thought theybwere cashed up Arab women!!

In one case they entered Selfridges department store and did a 'smash and grab' robbery in the luxury watches department.

Got away with about £200K worth of Rolex's etc out of the glass cabinets....

Didn't really do them any good mind, they were all caught!!
 
Muz said:
If you do see (their face) that is.

To be honest I don't give a shit either but that doesn't mean I have to like it.

Like I said I'm not proposing a ban but I wouldn't be against it either.

France has dealt with it. I wouldn't mind betting a lot of 14 year old girls in France (or whatever age they move into them) are looking at their laws and going 'thank allah for that'.
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You seem to be pretty sure of the concept of "Forced religion" and I guess part of it could be based on personal experiences.. Many people tie their faith into their identity and thus how they dress... I must admit I really couldn't care either way , I do find the full face covering a little much but I also hate those goth girls covered head to toe in tattoos and piercings... to each their own fashion, Ive worn enough dodgy looking shit over the years (in than name of fashion or rebelion) to not have an opinion on someone else wearing something because it makes them who they are, or want to be.

Im not even going to pretend to speak on a Muslim behalf, especially NOT of a 14 year old girl of course but speaking to Muslim friends they insist that most of they women in their lives chose to wear it of their own volition .. I have to believe them at face value. My daughters two friends that wear jhijab all do so, according to my daughter, because it makes them feel connected to their heritage... I see nothing wrong with that.
 
HonestSpursFan said:
As much as I’m for religious freedom I feel like specific practices should be banned. The burqa is one because it’s hiding your identity. Circumcision of minors is another because it’s not consensual (and unnecessary unlike vaccines which are incredibly useful). Forced conversion should also be banned. Conversion therapy should be banned too but I think it’s already illegal in most places.
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I think burqas are dumb but I wouldn't ban them. Counter productive.

Why stop there? Priests where some gay shit I donlt like either but they are free to look like wierdos

The hijab actually really like.....😋 Love an attractive sophisticated stylish woman in the head scarf...hawt

Burqa is just sad on many fronts
 
tsf said:
I think burqas are dumb but I wouldn't ban them. Counter productive.

Why stop there? Priests where some gay shit I donlt like either but they are free to look like wierdos

The hijab actually really like.....😋 Love an attractive sophisticated stylish woman in the head scarf...hawt

Burqa is just sad on many fronts
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Counter productive is a good way of illustrating the point.

If the authorites banned Muslim women from wearing the burqa in public, then some may feel compelled to stay home altogether.

The seclusion cutting them off from society, education, and work, deepening any isolation they may have rather than fostering integration.
 
When I fly to the middle east and all the women get up to put on their headscarf when we are about to land, my pulse raises a little...not the only thing that raises, amirite amirite ....I'll get my coat
 
Muz said:
He's got it. We applied pretty much immediately. We wouldn't have been able to leave Singapore without it if we hadn't applied because, as stated above, he wasn't a citizen of Singapore.

My question was, and still is, on what grounds could the Australian government refuse it seeing, at 5 days old, he's hardly going to be refused on a character assessment.

Just as an aside we had his passport in less than 8 days. I know that because we travelled to a wedding in Australia 10 days after he was born. (The government can move quickly when they need to.)
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On looking it up I saw there was a character test. On further investigation when looking for the form that test only applies for those over 18 applying. Glad you sorted it out quickly and the Public Service did their job promptly.
 
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Football us life said:
I'm not overstating anything....

"Under Australian law, a child born overseas to an Australian citizen parent does not automatically acquire citizenship at birth. Instead, they are eligible to apply for Australian citizenship by descent .

That's hardly overstating something....
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Sorry. I took an implication a lot further than you meant to take it. Yes, you do need to apply, and if you wait until you are over 18 you also need to pass a good character test as well as have the correct parentage. Everything you actually said was correct. I just added a bit in my mind that you didn't put there.
 
Monoethnic Social Club said:
You seem to be pretty sure of the concept of "Forced religion" and I guess part of it could be based on personal experiences.. Many people tie their faith into their identity and thus how they dress... I must admit I really couldn't care either way , I do find the full face covering a little much but I also hate those goth girls covered head to toe in tattoos and piercings... to each their own fashion, Ive worn enough dodgy looking shit over the years (in than name of fashion or rebelion) to not have an opinion on someone else wearing something because it makes them who they are, or want to be.

Im not even going to pretend to speak on a Muslim behalf, especially NOT of a 14 year old girl of course but speaking to Muslim friends they insist that most of they women in their lives chose to wear it of their own volition .. I have to believe them at face value. My daughters two friends that wear jhijab all do so, according to my daughter, because it makes them feel connected to their heritage... I see nothing wrong with that.
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Well without getting into an argument I think there's a whole bunch of cultural, religious and familial pressures to wear a hijab. Does a 14 year old girl really have a 'choice'.

Exactly what are her options if she decides not to?

Yes you believe them. What else can you do? I probably would too.

Yes I am confident religion is forced. Point me to a single child under 10 that has chosen a religion that's not his parents. There's no way children have a choice in the matter. They're 99.9999% the religion of their parents.

We've gone over this before. I believe it's indoctrination, it literally meets the very definition, you don't.
 
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Football us life said:
Counter productive is a good way of illustrating the point.

If the authorites banned Muslim women from wearing the burqa in public, then some may feel compelled to stay home altogether.

The seclusion cutting them off from society, education, and work, deepening any isolation they may have rather than fostering integration.
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Or, hear me, out, the requirement would die out.

I can't help feel that it's deeply misogynistic and misandrist at the same tim.

Firstly it dehumanises the women and secondly the requirement is in place because they need to be 'protected from men'.

It's flat out insulting to blokes and dehumanises the women.
 
Muz said:
Well without getting into an argument I think there's a whole bunch of cultural, religious and familial pressures to wear a hijab. Does a 14 year old girl really have a 'choice'.

Exactly what are her options if she decides not to?

Yes you believe them. What else can you do. I probably would too.
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All I can do is believe what I am told.
Muz said:
Yes I am confident religion is forced. Point me to a single child under 10 that has chosen a religion that's not his parents. There's no way children have a choice in the matter. They're 99.9999% the religion of their parents.

We've gone over this before. I believe it's indoctrination, it literally meets the very definition, you don't.
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But then by definition ALL cultural associations are indoctrination and whilst you may give them a negative connotation many others wouldn't. Maybe in some instances religion is forced, I wouldn't know, for me and my family it was always presented as a comfort and a guide in life, how much or how little of it you chose to accept was a personal choice.... from adulthood obviously, until 18 a child can't be emotionally responsible for any TRUE test of character whether that be religion, politics or sex.

Yes children are taught at an early age they are Australians and their culture stands for mate ship and a fair go and inclusion and compassion for their fellow man. That all those around them white, yellow, brown or asian are ALL Australians and many eat different food and pray to different gods than they do. I don't see that as indoctrination obviously, I see that as a belonging to the fabric of wonderful multicultural society.
 
Muz said:
Or, hear me, out, the requirement would die out.

I can't help feel that it's deeply misogynistic and misandrist at the same tim.

Firstly it dehumanises the women and secondly the requirement is in place because they need to be 'protected from men'.

It's flat out insulting to blokes and dehumanises the women.
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If that is the case then why NOT let it die out of its own accord - which I assume it will at least in western countries.

After the early Southern European migrants first arrived post WW2 and establioshed themselves bfore sending back hoime for thier faimilies to join them, manythat came with the widowed nonnas of Greek and Italian mountain villages, dressed in their black widow's weeds and black shawls looking like ninjas... The Anglo purple hair brigade must have been outraged at how 50-60 year old women looked like old cocrones.... 50 years later and you dont see this anymore...

1771391092774.png
 
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Muz said:
Forced conversion? You mean 'gay conversion therapy' I assume? Like when they try and brainwash somebody to be who they're not?

Does that apply to people indoctrinating their children with religion, non-consensual indoctrination I might add, because I'm in total agreement.
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Can the same be said about proselytising people to atheism?
 
So there's an inquiry into right wing extremism in NSW. Meanwhile Pauline Hanson is on TV saying there's no such thing as a good Muslim.

Checks notes. Nothing to see here.
 
patjennings said:
Can the same be said about proselytising people to atheism?
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'Proselytising' relates only to religion but I assume you mean trying to convince people to become atheists.

I'm not telling anyone to become an atheist. That's a personal realisation you might come to yourself if you give your belief system any sort of critical evaluation.

And no, atheism is not a belief system as much religious people would like to frame it as such.
 
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Monoethnic Social Club said:
Ah "Atheism and the Church of Later Day Pretentiousness"

Pretending you are a "good person" on earth ebcause you don't give a fuck what happens when you die is the biggest cult of all.
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Wrong.

'Pretending' to be good person or being good person because your god told you to be for goodies in the afterlife is just transactional isn't it? And, in no small part, rather disingenuous.

I don't need promised goodies and a pretend afterlife to try and be a decent person.

Why do you need someone to tell you to try and be a decent person? Can't you just do that yourself?
 
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