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Australian news and politics.

Under Australian law, a child born overseas to an Australian citizen parent does not automatically acquire citizenship at birth . Instead, they are eligible to apply for Australian citizenship by descent .

In these cases where radicalisation of the mother has obviously taken place in Australia in the first place, well I think that has to be taken into consideration.
 
Football us life said:
Under Australian law, a child born overseas to an Australian citizen parent does not automatically acquire citizenship at birth . Instead, they are eligible to apply for Australian citizenship by descent .
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Is that true? My kid was born in Singapore and they specifically say, in law, and, how's this, on the birth certificate, THIS CHILD IS NOT A SINGAPOREAN CITIZEN.

If Australia refused his citizenship by descent what would happen then?
 
Muz said:
Is that true? My kid was born in Singapore and they specifically say, in law, and, how's this, on the birth certificate, THIS CHILD IS NOT A SINGAPOREAN CITIZEN.

If Australia refused his citizenship by descent what would happen then?
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It is not discretionary in the same way a visa is in terms of the legal requirements being met, I would say it is normally granted.

However....

If a child is born in Singapore and either parent is Singaporean, and Australia refuses the child's citizenship and then no other country grants citizenship

Then the child could technically become stateless because Singaporean laws are actually tougher than Australia on this particular issue.

But I would guess in practice Australia would always grant citizenship and statelessness involving the children of Australian citizens is very, very rare.

It might be a good idea to run it past an immigration lawyer, just to dot the i's and cross the t's....

Refusals would probably only happen if there was serious character issues like the one we've been talking about this morning.

If your parents are originally from Croatia then the grandchildren can apply for residency leading to citizenship there and having spent a little time on the Dalmatian Coast I could think of worse places to go if Australia kicked me out....

There's a Croatian - EU passport up for grabs then and they can reside anywhere in the European Union.
 
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Football us life said:
It is not discretionary in the same way a visa is in terms of the legal requirements being met, I would say it is normally granted.

However....

If a child is born in Singapore and either parent is Singaporean, and Australia refuses the child's citizenship and then no other country grants citizenship

Then the child could technically become stateless because Singaporean laws are actually tougher than Australia on this particular issue.

But I would guess in practice Australia would always grant citizenship and statelessness involving the children of Australian citizens is very, very rare.

It might be a good idea to run it past an immigration lawyer, just to dot the i's and cross the t's....

Refusals would probably only happen if there was serious character issues like the one we've been talking about this morning.

If your parents are originally from Croatia then the grandchildren can apply for residency leading to citizenship there and having spent a little time on the Dalmatian Coast I could think of worse places to go if Australia kicked me out....

There's a Croatian - EU passport up for grabs then and they can reside anywhere in the European Union.
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My kids has citizenship of Australia by descent because we're both Australian. I was asking, in that example, could Australia say no?
 
tsf said:
She looks stunning! Phwoaaarr get her back and stop playing hardball albo! She's clearly left the extremism behind and is ready to integrate!

5e7e4b2bc237102749c2a86afe09b871
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LFC said:
so whats everyone's stand on this ?
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As much as I’m for religious freedom I feel like specific practices should be banned. The burqa is one because it’s hiding your identity. Circumcision of minors is another because it’s not consensual (and unnecessary unlike vaccines which are incredibly useful). Forced conversion should also be banned. Conversion therapy should be banned too but I think it’s already illegal in most places.
 
Muz said:
My kids has citizenship of Australia by descent because we're both Australian. I was asking, in that example, could Australia say no?
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Sorry I meant to say Australian not Singaporean in the second paragraph down.

It's probably just one of those anomalous laws that crop up in the legislation of the Department of Home Affairs but you'd obviously have to check with an immigration lawyer to be totally sure

But realistically there's no chance that Australia would refuse a child born overseas their citizenship, if both or even one parent is Australian unless in absolute severe circumstances....

Such as one of you being a national security risk, as the circumstances of so-called "ISIS" brides are being talked about in and even then it's likely impossible to implement under the human rights protection in the Constitution....
 
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HonestSpursFan said:
As much as I’m for religious freedom I feel like specific practices should be banned. The burqa is one because it’s hiding your identity. Circumcision of minors is another because it’s not consensual (and unnecessary unlike vaccines which are incredibly useful). Forced conversion should also be banned. Conversion therapy should be banned too but I think it’s already illegal in most places.
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Forced conversion? You mean 'gay conversion therapy' I assume? Like when they try and brainwash somebody to be who they're not?

Does that apply to people indoctrinating their children with religion, non-consensual indoctrination I might add, because I'm in total agreement.
 
HonestSpursFan said:
As much as I’m for religious freedom I feel like specific practices should be banned. The burqa is one because it’s hiding your identity. Circumcision of minors is another because it’s not consensual (and unnecessary unlike vaccines which are incredibly useful). Forced conversion should also be banned. Conversion therapy should be banned too but I think it’s already illegal in most places.
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And 100% agree on the burqua as long as Carmelite nuns are banned from all the ridiculous garb as well.

The whole thing is unedifying. Yes yes you can see a nun's face. Still stupid though.
 
Muz said:
And 100% agree on the burqua as long as Carmelite nuns are banned from all the ridiculous garb as well.

The whole thing is unedifying. Yes yes you can see a nun's face. Still stupid though.
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Stupid yeah but the face covering is kinda what counts. No problem with hijabs but fully covering your face shouldn’t be allowed. The Quran doesn’t even say that burqas are required.
 
Muz said:
Is that true? My kid was born in Singapore and they specifically say, in law, and, how's this, on the birth certificate, THIS CHILD IS NOT A SINGAPOREAN CITIZEN.

If Australia refused his citizenship by descent what would happen then?
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He is overstating it. Your child doesn't get automatic citizenship because the birth isn't registered in Australia. They are eligible for Australian Citizenship (assuming one or both parents are Australian Citizens) and you will need to apply for it to be recognised and registered. You can access the forms and info at the link below. There is a caveat about meeting good moral character requirements if the applicant is over 18. In theory they could say no, but unless your kid has a pretty bad criminal record I don't think there would be a problem.

www.immigrationdirect.com.au

Australian Citizenship for Children | Immigration Direct

Find out if you are eligible for Australian Citizenship through your parents. Download application for Citizenship by Descent, Form 118. Learn more about requirements.
www.immigrationdirect.com.au www.immigrationdirect.com.au

 
Muz said:
Forced conversion? You mean 'gay conversion therapy' I assume? Like when they try and brainwash somebody to be who they're not?

Does that apply to people indoctrinating their children with religion, non-consensual indoctrination I might add, because I'm in total agreement.
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By forced conversion was referring to religion, by conversion therapy I meant trying to forcefully change someone’s sexual orientation (overseas there are some pretty sickening examples of this going beyond religion into shock therapy, starvation, forced consumption of faeces and irreversible surgeries).

Anyone should be able to join or leave any religion at any time based on their wishes. Cults (e.g Scientology) are not religions.
 
I'm not at all for the banning of the burqa. It violates fundamental human rights, such as the freedom of thought, conscience, and religion. Unless for specific official identification reasons of course like the police or immigrationat an airport...

I would doubt that there's many young girls or women who are forced to wear a burqa against their wishes in Australia to be honest.

Maybe some may face intense family or community pressure to wear one but probably not many.

I'm pretty sure that when you hear talk of the coercion of girls and women in Muslim communities to wear the burqa it's all a bit over done.
 
Alex M said:
He is overstating it. Your child doesn't get automatic citizenship because the birth isn't registered in Australia. They are eligible for Australian Citizenship (assuming one or both parents are Australian Citizens) and you will need to apply for it to be recognised and registered. You can access the forms and info at the link below. There is a caveat about meeting good moral character requirements if the applicant is over 18. In theory they could say no, but unless your kid has a pretty bad criminal record I don't think there would be a problem.

www.immigrationdirect.com.au

Australian Citizenship for Children | Immigration Direct

Find out if you are eligible for Australian Citizenship through your parents. Download application for Citizenship by Descent, Form 118. Learn more about requirements.
www.immigrationdirect.com.au www.immigrationdirect.com.au

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I'm not overstating anything....

"Under Australian law, a child born overseas to an Australian citizen parent does not automatically acquire citizenship at birth. Instead, they are eligible to apply for Australian citizenship by descent .

That's hardly overstating something....
 
HonestSpursFan said:
Anyone should be able to join or leave any religion at any time based on their wishes. Cults (e.g Scientology) are not religions.
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There's zero difference between scientology and any other religion. Literally all made up.

Next you'll be dissing the Flying Spaghetti Monster, which, has been proved, by many courts to be 100% a religion.

Your line in the sand is somewhat arbitrary.

Is mormonism a religion? And if so why isn't scientology? Is there a cut-off date?

Far easier to not have to perform mental gymnastics if you're an atheist like me because they're all cults.
 
Alex M said:
He is overstating it. Your child doesn't get automatic citizenship because the birth isn't registered in Australia. They are eligible for Australian Citizenship (assuming one or both parents are Australian Citizens) and you will need to apply for it to be recognised and registered. You can access the forms and info at the link below. There is a caveat about meeting good moral character requirements if the applicant is over 18. In theory they could say no, but unless your kid has a pretty bad criminal record I don't think there would be a problem.

www.immigrationdirect.com.au

Australian Citizenship for Children | Immigration Direct

Find out if you are eligible for Australian Citizenship through your parents. Download application for Citizenship by Descent, Form 118. Learn more about requirements.
www.immigrationdirect.com.au www.immigrationdirect.com.au

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He's got it. We applied pretty much immediately. We wouldn't have been able to leave Singapore without it if we hadn't applied because, as stated above, he wasn't a citizen of Singapore.

My question was, and still is, on what grounds could the Australian government refuse it seeing, at 5 days old, he's hardly going to be refused on a character assessment.

Just as an aside we had his passport in less than 8 days. I know that because we travelled to a wedding in Australia 10 days after he was born. (The government can move quickly when they need to.)
 
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Football us life said:
I'm not at all for the banning of the burqa. It violates fundamental human rights, such as the freedom of thought, conscience, and religion. Unless for specific official identification reasons of course like the police or immigrationat an airport...

I would doubt that there's many young girls or women who are forced to wear a burqa against their wishes in Australia to be honest.

Maybe some may face intense family or community pressure to wear one but probably not many.

I'm pretty sure that when you hear talk of the coercion of girls and women in Muslim communities to wear the burqa it's all a bit over done.
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I'm conflicted about this.

I'm an atheist BUT if we're all about freedom of religion, then, they're free to do what they want BUT I think there should be a specific carve out where you can't hide your face. It's more than a religious issue, the face is part of what makes us human.

But then again, freedom to practice whatever cult you belong to, including all their stupid rules. (Which of course includes circumcision. Just mental when you think about it.)

But then again religious people aren't known for thinking too hard about the 'whys' of why they do some things but not others. Better to roll with it lest you be branded a heretic and cast out like a girl I was seeing at uni was. Thought her 7 day adventist religion was a bit nuts, said as much and got told to leave and nobody from her family or congregation, and I mean nobody, spoke to her ever again. That's fucked up.
 
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Football us life said:
I'm not at all for the banning of the burqa. It violates fundamental human rights, such as the freedom of thought, conscience, and religion. Unless for specific official identification reasons of course like the police or immigrationat an airport...

I would doubt that there's many young girls or women who are forced to wear a burqa against their wishes in Australia to be honest.

Maybe some may face intense family or community pressure to wear one but probably not many.

I'm pretty sure that when you hear talk of the coercion of girls and women in Muslim communities to wear the burqa it's all a bit over done.
Click to expand...
I agree, unless it is a safety requirement for identification or security purposes I think anyone can wear whatever the hell they want. Cant have mandatory masks covering the face then 2 years later tell people they cant cover their faces in public.. Pauline is a fuckin idiot.
 
Muz said:
There's zero difference between scientology and any other religion. Literally all made up.

Next you'll be dissing the Flying Spaghetti Monster, which, has been proved, by many courts to be 100% a religion.

Your line in the sand is somewhat arbitrary.

Is mormonism a religion? And if so why isn't scientology? Is there a cut-off date?

Far easier to not have to perform mental gymnastics if you're an atheist like me because they're all cults.
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Ah "Atheism and the Church of Later Day Pretentiousness"

Pretending you are a "good person" on earth ebcause you don't give a fuck what happens when you die is the biggest cult of all.
 
Muz said:
I'm conflicted about this.

I'm an atheist BUT if we're all about freedom of religion, then, they're free to do what they want BUT I think there should be a specific carve out where you can't hide your face. It's more than a religious issue, the face is part of what makes us human.

But then again, freedom to practice whatever cult you belong to, including all their stupid rules. (Which of course includes circumcision. Just mental when you think about it.)

But then again religious people aren't known for thinking too hard about the 'whys' of why they do some things but not others. Better to roll with it lest you be branded a heretic and cast out like a girl I was seeing at uni was. Thought her 7 day adventist religion was a bit nuts, said as much and got told to leave and nobody from her family or congregation, and I mean nobody, spoke to her ever again. That's fucked up.
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Are you sure it was because she criticised her religion and NOT because of her poor choice in boyfriends? :cool: :cool:
 
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