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He did say what you are asking for though:


That last one is him literally saying, "is not on in Australia"
Today, yes. But he danced around it all week. That's my point.

Like I said earlier, if he's going to list things that are a threat to this nation in earlier addresses this week, he could have at least listed the thing that actually is behind this attack.
 
I don't trust any party -other than the Greens (oh no, I said the forbidden word)- to care about Islamaphobia. I've seen 2 decades of hate crimes against Muslims, yet it still continues. I also have a colleague who was pretty Islamaphobic towards students (with video and audio evidence), yet not only kept their job, but got a promotion. In fact, this year, a colleague was bigoted towards me in front of other staff ("why do you care about other cultures, fix your own first. We all know it's broken and a lie"), and they got given a position as a cultural support leader. The fact that Pauline Hanson, Malcolm Roberts, Peter Dutton, Dave Sharma, Andrew Hastie among others...have all at some point in their career stood up in Senate or Parliament and made an Islamaphobic comment and still get votes, elected, or support tells you everything you need to know about how widely accepted Islamaphobia is. I walked past a restaurant on my way home after ACDC this evening and someone has spray painted the word "Dog" on the window. The restaurant is owned by a Bangladeshi man. There is a bookstore in the suburb over from me that currently has a sign that says, "Re Bondi. I warned you not to vote for the Greens. You've brought war upon you", and has a big Israeli flag stuck outside.

You also are using that slogan which doesn't mean what you think it means. Not saying it should be allowed to be said, but that slogan did not come from Muslims as a means of war. It came about from PYM or WOL as a means of saying that people have a duty to stand up along side Palestinians and taking inspiration from their courage and resistance, by putting it into action through means such as boycotts, and political voting. Using it as a call to arms came from western media, who popularised it and created that meaning around it.

I'm not out here trying to say we have it worse. I honestly don't think one has it worse over the other. I think all minority groups face levels of racism and hatred, and we are pitted against each other in the never ending cycle of violence and hate, yet there are clear groups and classes that benefit from this vitriol and hate. They feed off ethnic groups constantly hating each other.

People keep saying lefties don't want to have the conversation about anti-semitism, but I think you will find that lefties are most concerned by anti-semitism. It's been yelled countless times that the anger is towards Zionism, not Judaism. It's also been very much brought to the attention that Semites include arabs and people of the middle east in countries such as Palestine, Jordan, Kuwait etc.


I would totally see where they are coming from, but am I'm not going to accept it. The crux is the conflation of anti-zionism with anti-semitism and the failure to accept the difference between the two. What is happening is that people take what happened at Bondi as justification to be bigoted against 2 billion people, and engage in acts that harm, terrorise, and vilify those people, and think they have justification to do so without recourse. Much like those who fail to separate anti-zionism with anti-semitism, they fail to separate radicalism with Islam.


Something awful has been happening to Aboriginal people for more than 200 years. We tried to change that with a referendum, and Australia overwhelmingly voted no. We can't even recognise our Indigenous people in the constitution and care for our own (regardless of race), yet we want to run so quickly to fight the war for a nation so far away from us, that doesn't actually care for the average Australia.

I've read the report on anti-semitism by Jillian Segel. I agree with a lot of what she recommends, but unsure on other things. I'm curious if you have read it and your thoughts.
Yeah so obviously my critique in these threads is broadly with the hard left making similar rhetorical statements to white conservatives did when I was in the usa talking about Black lives matter (zooming out to say all lives matter, changing the subject, justifying etc). It's definitely more complicated when talking to a Muslim since in the end while I can look at spread sheets on hate data and listen to people's experiences, in the end I don't know what it's like to walk in your shoes.

I of course do take Islamophobia seriously, and I don't know if you remember but you and I read the Quran together on the old 442 forum (and we got constantly trolled by atheists) because it is difficult to address anti-Muslim hate without being informed of the religion.

The data says that hate crimes towards Jews is far worse when adjusted per capita than anti-muslim hate crimes and I think there needs to be a special focus right now on addressing that. We can't all lives matter antisemitism. In the end though, if you are like "look things are too real and I just need to put out fires and defend myself against anti-Muslim hate" I get it and won't push that.

Having said that I'm a little concerned with the view that anti-zionism is easily separated from anti-semitism. Zionism is a polysemous term which captures a broad range of views, the Jewish virtual library gives several different types of zionism. The main thing that unites them being the view that the view that the majority Jewish nation, Israel, should continue to exist and have self determination. This is the definition every Jewish friend I have uses. For instance, the ADL defines it as "Zionism is the movement for the self-determination and statehood for the Jewish people in their ancestral homeland, the land of Israel". Any move to demonize Zionism or exclude Zionists from the public square will have disparate impact on Jewish people. Alternatively, I think defining zionism in an uncharitable way is also propagating anti-semitism. To give an analogy, demonising feminism or defining it as "man hating" or something uncharitable I would classify as mysogynist. Unfortunately the wiki page does just that (calling it an ethnonationalist movement) and has an epic talk page as a result!

I think lefties are pretty happy to have a conversation about anti-semitism as long as it is focused on right wing manifestations of antisemitism, lefties have a lot of trouble with the larger plank currently in the lefts eye. I say this as a lefty, who works with lefties who doesn't actually interact with anyone who isn't left wing in my day to day life (did I mention University is a monoculture!) So I'm point the finger at myself and my community not someone else and taking responsibility for our failure towards the Jewish people. Having said that, I do think the Labour governments antisemitism envoy is mostly excellent and I'm very pleased to hear the government announce that they are following it

It has just, thorough and proportionate treatment of my sector (university sector). I have one concern, if they are vetting refugees for antisemitic views, is there a risk of not pulling our weight on Palestinian refugees. It would be morally absurd to not take refugees from Palestine given our peripheral involvement in giving aid, but we cannot compromise Jewish security. So I hope the government has a careful solution that fulfills both those aims
 
I'll have to jump out of this thread since I am delaying work to do this and I have some deadlines before Christmas. But I'll try and jump back in soon (hopefully boxing day) since it is a tough but important topic
 
good thankyou for this had me wondering wtf - the shooters are religious right wing nutjobs.
Extremities on either end of the scale left or right, whether it be ideologies, race, colour, religion, gender, sexual preferences are nutjobs.

Not being a particularly religious person, but have the basic idea that most religious teachings is about love & yet so many kill in the name of religion, amazing.
Likewise with Patriotism for ones country, yes in sport I love the Socceroos & hope they smash other countries, loving the Ashes at present, (4 English brother in laws), but living & being an Australian, I do not think I'm better that some bloke in England, or some Portuguese kid, or some African women or some families in China.
 
I of course do take Islamophobia seriously, and I don't know if you remember but you and I read the Quran together on the old 442 forum (and we got constantly trolled by atheists) because it is difficult to address anti-Muslim hate without being informed of the religion.
This actually seems like an interesting concept to me
 
Today, yes. But he danced around it all week. That's my point.

Like I said earlier, if he's going to list things that are a threat to this nation in earlier addresses this week, he could have at least listed the thing that actually is behind this attack.

he is still dancing around the root cause and wont call it out for what it is.

he still believes the far right and gun laws are the biggest threat to come out of this attack. lol
 
he is still dancing around the root cause and wont call it out for what it is.

he still believes the far right and gun laws are the biggest threat to come out of this attack. lol
The problem is Albanese isn't fit to hold the office of Prime Minister.

It's been proven time and again that the bloke goes into hiding when the going gets tough.

Labor has been in hiding and skirting around the edges on this issue as they are petrified of losing their southwestern Sydney seats to the Greens.
 
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The problem is Albanese isn't fit to hold the office of Prime Minister.

It's been proven time and again that the bloke goes into hiding when the going gets tough.

Labor has been in hiding and skirting around the edges on this issue as they are petrified of losing their southwestern Sydney seats to the frankly evil Greens.
So who is your alternative for Prime minister in Australia?
 
What if you look outside of the Government, because the right seems to be heaping the blame on the government?
The election isn't due until 2028 so its a moot point.

Also the Jewish community are blaming the government for what happened on Sunday and only a batshit crazy member of the far left wouldn't think they don't have a valid point.

Albanese has sat back and done two parts of sweet fuck all to nip this bullshit in the bud since the disgraceful display on the Opera House last October.

The bloke is not a leader, never has been never will be and for the sake of the country he should do the noble thing and step aside.
 
The problem is Albanese isn't fit to hold the office of Prime Minister.

It's been proven time and again that the bloke goes into hiding when the going gets tough.

Labor has been in hiding and skirting around the edges on this issue as they are petrified of losing their southwestern Sydney seats to the frankly evil Greens.

Cry more fella.

 
The election isn't due until 2028 so its a moot point.

Also the Jewish community are blaming the government for what happened on Sunday and only a batshit crazy member of the far left wouldn't think they don't have a valid point.

Albanese has sat back and done two parts of sweet fuck all to nip this bullshit in the bud since the disgraceful display on the Opera House last October.

The bloke is not a leader, never has been never will be and for the sake of the country he should do the noble thing and step aside.
While I agree that he should've done more to punish the hate speeches & the hate flags & understand the Jewish community looking for blame.
However, it's not a moot point because his main protagonist have all come out after him & I do wonder which party or person would have done a better job, as far as I can all these past & present leaders (that has come after him) also come with their faults & sins, I don't which of these people would done a better job.
This is my point, there are always two sides to every issue, tell me who do you think is showing true leadership in all this?
 
While I agree that he should've done more to punish the hate speeches & the hate flags & understand the Jewish community looking for blame.
However, it's not a moot point because his main protagonist have all come out after him & I do wonder which party or person would have done a better job, as far as I can all these past & present leaders (that has come after him) also come with their faults & sins, I don't which of these people would done a better job.
This is my point, there are always two sides to every issue, tell me who do you think is showing true leadership in all this?
Of the current leaders none of them but that doesn't mean heads shouldn't roll over this.

It has exposed a glaring hole in the leadership of the government and of ASIO since this whole debacle began.

If Albanese had've stood up like a real leader and not being dragged kicking and screaming to tighten hate speech laws things wouldn't have festered to the point it has.
 
Of the current leaders none of them but that doesn't mean heads shouldn't roll over this.

It has exposed a glaring hole in the leadership of the government and of ASIO since this whole debacle began.

If Albanese had've stood up like a real leader and not being dragged kicking and screaming to tighten hate speech laws things wouldn't have festered to the point it has.
Fair enough I can accept you opinions on this.
It always easier as we all know to be the opposition & throw grenades & I see a lot on the right doing this & I don't see any of these that would show the leadership you are talking about.
There is definitely a lack of competent leaders in Australia, as a matter of around the world.
I just don't want the people to be unhappy & allow a craze mad(wo)man into power like they have in the US, these are dangerous times.
 
Fair enough I can accept you opinions on this.
It always easier as we all know to be the opposition & throw grenades & I see a lot on the right doing this & I don't see any of these that would show the leadership you are talking about.
There is definitely a lack of competent leaders in Australia, as a matter of around the world.
You can't convince me the Left wouldn't be doing the same thing if it was the Coalition were in charge and the events of Sunday happened under their watch.

The ABC & The Guardian would've been having kittens.
 
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