Welcome!

By registering with us, you'll be able to discuss, share and private message with other members of our community.

Sign Up Now!

Green & Gold FC podcast

You make some amazing leaps in logic at times. It now seems that you are saying that the Dutch second tier is a better league for Australian players than the Scottish Premiership, based purely on it being a professional league and presumably having Dutch coaches.

I don’t watch the Eerste Divisie, but nothing I’ve read suggests that it is a better standard than the Scottish Prem. In fact I’ve read a number of things suggesting the standard is quite poor. Even if the coaches in the Eerste Divisie are world beaters (and let’s face it, they aren’t or they wouldn’t be coaching there), the standard of play is much more important for the development of senior players (which Nisbet is, he is 26 years old) than the standard of coaching.

I might be wrong and the Eerste might be a great league, but you don’t know that any more than I do.
It is a question of the style of football, Keeper.

When Ad Derkson and Arie Schans were in Aus coaching AL youth coaches, and a limited intake of the great unwashed, they claimed the AL was about the same standard as the lowest Eredivisie teams and the best Eerste, despite some awful collective defending in the then AL.

They didn’t realise it was a huge compliment! They only really rated Ajax, PSV and Feyenoorde. Possibly FC Twente and AZ Alkmaar?

In the Eerste the coaching more greatly aligns with what we are trying to do in Aus, whereas Scotland has more play in the transitions - hence ball winning is paramount, over off the ball movement to support the player on it.

The Eerste also has greater promise of being elevated to the Eredivisie as a team unit, or, getting an individual transfer to it. Overall the Eredivisie is the 6th ranked league in UEFA.

Not sure where Scotland is ranked comparatively? Other than a transfer to Celtic or Rangers, there isn’t a higher level to aspire to in Scotland.

For some reason Aussies seem to do much better in Netherlands, than Portugal, which is usually similarly ranked to Netherlands.
 
I think we are a few years away from sexy football and I'm not sure we achieve it even then

there is clearly a jump in quality of player that we are producing compared to the rest of the a league era but still not a high enough jump for it to be a "golden generation"

to give an intuition, imagine we had a player born 2006 who this season was playing regularly for the top team in the epl, another born 2006 playing regularly for glasgow rangers, or two players born 2005 playing regularly for feyenoord and Zagreb

Career trajectories haven't changed much, the sort of player we are producing will probably have worse club careers than that generation born 1975-80
I’m up to the 35 min mark of the Colombia game - at this stage we are almost matching them. I know the wheels are going to fall off after the subs come on at the 75 min mark, but apart from Trewin and Toure, it is a very experienced Socceroos.

Anyway the class of Colombia, and recently Japan and USA, plus Mexico, is still a lot better than we are ATM. To get into the FIFA world teen rankings like these teams, means vast improvement from Aus.
 
Coaching isn't the be all and end all of football culture.

You don't seem to have much idea about what attracts people to follow football.

Coaching is just a very small strand in a vast kaleidoscope of cultural and personal connections that make up football.

"Go away and coach" seems to be your regular response to people who don't quite align to your way of thinking.
I attend all the games live ( not enough of them) in Southern Tas when local NPL teams play teams from interstate, plus attend quite a few NPL games in the season.

I’ve attended all Western United games played in Tas.

Maybe you can shed light on the ‘football culture’ I’m missing?

Overall I played for 12 years for underage teams and seniors, including rep and state squad level.

I’ve played for 2 NPL clubs and coached at one, plus I’ve coached at an outer suburban club too, plus junior clubs, run a soccer school for migrants, yet I’m missing some nebulous ‘football culture’.

Moreover, Mono’s beloved South Melb showed Tas football quite a lot of aspects of performance where it needed to improve. When I shed light on them some months ago from watching Hellas play live in Tas against South H, Mono was thrilled!
 
It is a question of the style of football, Keeper.

When Ad Derkson and Arie Schans were in Aus coaching AL youth coaches, and a limited intake of the great unwashed, they claimed the AL was about the same standard as the lowest Eredivisie teams and the best Eerste, despite some awful collective defending in the then AL.

They didn’t realise it was a huge compliment! They only really rated Ajax, PSV and Feyenoorde. Possibly FC Twente and AZ Alkmaar?

In the Eerste the coaching more greatly aligns with what we are trying to do in Aus, whereas Scotland has more play in the transitions - hence ball winning is paramount, over off the ball movement to support the player on it.

The Eerste also has greater promise of being elevated to the Eredivisie as a team unit, or, getting an individual transfer to it. Overall the Eredivisie is the 6th ranked league in UEFA.

Not sure where Scotland is ranked comparatively? Other than a transfer to Celtic or Rangers, there isn’t a higher level to aspire to in Scotland.

For some reason Aussies seem to do much better in Netherlands, than Portugal, which is usually similarly ranked to Netherlands.
No, it’s not just a question of the style of football, the standard is equally if not arguably more important. Playing in a low standard league even if the style fits some blinkered Dutch/KNVB/NC ideals is not going to further develop A league-type players, for example.

You seem to have this romanticised view that the NC and Dutch coaching practices are the be all and end all as far as how anyone should play football. Spoiler alert - it isn’t.

Keep in mind also the NC was developed nearly 15 years ago, in fact most of the data/examples/playing styles referenced in the NC (at least the latest one I have seen - FA have seemed to be making noises for a few years now about updating it but I haven’t seen anything come out yet) come from the 2010 World Cup. Is everything that was relevant from that World Cup, nearly 4 tournaments ago, of the same importance today?
 
  • Like
Reactions: LFC
No, it’s not just a question of the style of football, the standard is equally if not arguably more important. Playing in a low standard league even if the style fits some blinkered Dutch/KNVB/NC ideals is not going to further develop A league-type players, for example.

You seem to have this romanticised view that the NC and Dutch coaching practices are the be all and end all as far as how anyone should play football. Spoiler alert - it isn’t.

Keep in mind also the NC was developed nearly 15 years ago, in fact most of the data/examples/playing styles referenced in the NC (at least the latest one I have seen - FA have seemed to be making noises for a few years now about updating it but I haven’t seen anything come out yet) come from the 2010 World Cup. Is everything that was relevant from that World Cup, nearly 4 tournaments ago, of the same importance today?
Any curriculum needs to be constantly updated.

The key European stakeholders involved with Aus football have said it is paramount to keep updating and refining a nation's curriculum. That change often occurs fast. They aslo say that in Europe, being small geographically, that UEFA national football feds are always checking other national football feds to learn new methods.

I've assumed updating the curric is occurring in Aus? I'm out of the loop though ATM.

I don't have a view the KNVB is the be all and end all. When one reads the literature though, Cruyff and Van Gaal, moving to Barca, has had quite an impact on world football trends, given what they did at Barca. Also, after they failed to qualify for the WC in 2018, the KNVB got Ed Ten Kate to conduct an overhaul of their practices, immediately visiting France and Germany to see what they were doing differently - and better.

Both Cruyff and van Gaal were rivals though!

When I evaluate Scotland, it is different from what the better UEFA international teams play. Unless it has changed in the last year, it is a very physical league, with the ball in the transitions a lot more. Whether the Scottish teams outside the Old Firm would beat most Eerste teams, I don't know?
 
Last edited:
I attend all the games live ( not enough of them) in Southern Tas when local NPL teams play teams from interstate, plus attend quite a few NPL games in the season.

I’ve attended all Western United games played in Tas.

Maybe you can shed light on the ‘football culture’ I’m missing?

Overall I played for 12 years for underage teams and seniors, including rep and state squad level.

I’ve played for 2 NPL clubs and coached at one, plus I’ve coached at an outer suburban club too, plus junior clubs, run a soccer school for migrants, yet I’m missing some nebulous ‘football culture’.

Moreover, Mono’s beloved South Melb showed Tas football quite a lot of aspects of performance where it needed to improve. When I shed light on them some months ago from watching Hellas play live in Tas against South H, Mono was thrilled!
No I endulged your bullshit, neither "thrilled" nor agreed to your ramblings champ.
 
crikey that's harsh! I watch ereste divisie matches when available (rarely) and I couldn't tell you which teams are getting paid
I really couldn't either mate, but its not really the point. There are clubs in the second (and sometimes third) tiers of MANY leagues scattered around Europe that anyone with any tiny knowledge of global football would know.... let alone a master in the intricacies of the KNVB... Roda and Vitesse , after all, belong to the milieu :P
 
It is a reflection of the knowledge base/experience of the people - if they mock what I present. What are their football credentials regarding performance? What specific facets are flawed - and - what do they suggest instead?

One hears the same increasingly universal football jargon used all the time from TV pundits like Phil Moss, a former AL coach.

I'm going to keep presenting it - providing insights into contemporary coaching practices.

There are now a number of semi- pro and 1 pro-trained coaches on G and G. There are a few players who've played at a high level too. None of them have cast aspersions on my knowledge base acquired from others, or reputable sources. One is quite competitive - often being pedantic about any grammatical mistake, my sources, or any comment they hope to refute. Like a modern day 'gotchya reporter'.

Some coaches are inherently competitive. For mine, the more coaches who are better trained, the better for Aus football. On 442 Performance section, the state FFA TD said I could email posters training ground practices and exercises, that we had access to, others may not have. I sent it out to 30 odd posters, all coaches, most who wrote back and said how useful it was. The state TD said I couldn't post it for public consumption - which would have been ideal. FFA then were trying to make coaches pay for content/ coaching practices.

I'm no luminary, but I have worked under the jurisdiction of heaps who are - and I'm quite a good student. It has been their job to ensure people like me are as effective as possible as a coach in the system - whether rep coaching or NPL TD roles. Moreover, that I'm a teacher of vast experience helps considerably.

I have coached football for 14 years too - in a range of settings with a lot of other coaches, including globally renowned ones. A bad back curtailed coaching.

If you are as passionate as you say you are about football, Mono, how much coaching have you done to help the next gen? It might be time to get your tracksuit on, do some coaching courses, and get involved in coaching, mate. Banging the sheds shouting, 'Hellas, Hellas', at games is only one part of the football experience.

Your coaches at South Melb, would likely be adhering to similar practices I present. Otherwise they would be left behind.
Approach the SM Tech Dir and ask him/her how you can best serve the SM milieu as a prospective coach? Also, tell him/her you think the KNVB methodology and Dutch coaching is all rubbish - and see what the response is.
You have absolutely no idea who I am or what my knowledge or credentials are, nor do I believe anything remotely presented by you as fact. I dont want to embarrass you mate, but really sometimes you have to understand that you can read Grey's Anatomy over and over and over again in your bedroom but you really shouldn't then go out and try and perform surgery....
 
Bottom-line is, I just want to see us play sexy-football; IMHO we didn’t have the cattle for it 4 years ago..but now we do.
I'd still be cool with pragmatic if it balanced defence and attack. It is far too defensively focussed atm. I don't think that's all bad because defence is our strength.

But we could be a wicked counter attacking team too with our offensive players. All it would need is minor tweaks in personnel and directive that when we go, we fucking go quick and without hesitation. We hold on too rigidly to defence under Popovic for that.
 
How would I get in contact?

I suppose I could try tony.popovic@footballaustralia.com.au ? Any other ideas?
Who is the media manager for the Socceroos or FA? I'd start with them. Or start with the generic inbox at the FA and ask who the media manager is and/or how to go about requesting an interview with Popovic.

I actually got curious about this a couple of months back and found a list of all the contacts at the FA. Based on job titles there were a few options but it wasn't clear to me. I was hoping to find an org chart but didn't manage to.

I'll see if I can find the website with those contacts again if you like.
 
Who is the media manager for the Socceroos or FA? I'd start with them. Or start with the generic inbox at the FA and ask who the media manager is and/or how to go about requesting an interview with Popovic.

I actually got curious about this a couple of months back and found a list of all the contacts at the FA. Based on job titles there were a few options but it wasn't clear to me. I was hoping to find an org chart but didn't manage to.

I'll see if I can find the website with those contacts again if you like.
That'd be handy! It's certainly worth a try!
 
I'd still be cool with pragmatic if it balanced defence and attack. It is far too defensively focussed atm. I don't think that's all bad because defence is our strength.

But we could be a wicked counter attacking team too with our offensive players. All it would need is minor tweaks in personnel and directive that when we go, we fucking go quick and without hesitation. We hold on too rigidly to defence under Popovic for that.
Yes - with a couple of personnel changes and the right tactics we could cause some teams some almighty problems and rack up some decent scores. But we need to get the central midfield right and ready to counterattack not passing backwards all the time.

Against tougher teams I'd be inclined to start Farrell at LWB (if fit) and Bos at LW. If or when Farrell gets a yellow against some of the stronger RW like Salah, Yamal, Saka, Dembele or Olise (and others) then move Bos back and bring in another LW.

Racking up big scores against lesser teams and minimising losses against the big boys is how we will progress.
 
Back
Top