Ustaše in Australian soccer

[LFC]

Am I out of line to ask the thread starters ww11 migrant background ? Besides the tertiary study, just curious

 

[Beretta]

On my to do list to learn...here is what ai claims

ZDS in Croatian ContextIn the Croatian context, ZDS is most commonly an abbreviation for Za Dom Spremni (translated as "For the Homeland – Ready!" or "For Home – Ready!"). This phrase originated as the official salute of the Ustaše movement during World War II, which governed the fascist puppet state known as the Independent State of Croatia (NDH, 1941–1945). It was mandatory in official and public use at the time, serving as the Ustaše equivalent to the Nazi "Sieg Heil" salute, and is tied to the regime's genocidal campaigns against Serbs, Jews, Roma, and others.Historical and Modern Significance

• WWII Origins: Coined by the Ustaše leader Ante Pavelić, it symbolized radical Croatian nationalism and fascist loyalty. Its use was widespread in propaganda, military oaths, and everyday greetings within the NDH.
• Post-WWII Revival: Banned under Yugoslav rule, it reemerged in the 1990s during Croatia's War of Independence (1991–1995). It was adopted by the Croatian Defence Forces (HOS), a paramilitary wing of the right-wing Croatian Party of Rights (HSP), who incorporated it into their logo and as an official greeting to evoke anti-fascist resistance against Serb forces. Some veterans and far-right groups view it as a symbol of Croatian defense and patriotism, detached from its Ustaše roots.
  • Proponents (often far-right nationalists) argue it's a legitimate expression of Croatian sovereignty, especially linked to the Homeland War. It's chanted at events like concerts by singer Marko Perković Thompson, who incorporates it into his lyrics.
  • Critics (historians, anti-fascist groups, and minorities) see it as hate speech promoting racism, antisemitism, and ethnic intolerance, equivalent to Nazi symbolism. Public incidents, such as chants at soccer matches or parliamentary speeches, have sparked outrage and legal debates.
  • Legal Status: Croatian courts have inconsistently ruled on it—sometimes banning it under general hate speech laws, but not always prosecuting. A 2019 survey showed 45% of Croats opposed banning it outright. It's banned in some contexts (e.g., memorials) but permitted in others tied to HOS veterans.

Nikola Šubić Zrinski used this salute in his glorious death in the march against the Ottoman Empire in the 16th Century where Suleiman I died https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Szigetvár

It was also used by our most known Ban Jelicic during the war against Hungary https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josip_Jelačić

The salute is used regulary for CENTURIES in the opera ‘Nikola Šubić Zrinski’ which is also performed at universities abroad, even in Japan



It was used in 1941-1945 by the Ustase

It was used in 1990 - 1995 - In defense against the Serbian invasion by the Croatian Defense Force paramilitary group which fought on the hardest of battlefields and marched to certain death in Vukovar.

The Croatian people that support the salute know its not fascist, as its an old croatian salute. But dont let your selective history get in the way of that.

 

[HonestSpursFan]

Am I out of line to ask the thread starters ww11 migrant background ? Besides the tertiary study, just curious

For me? French and Italian.

 

[Monoethnic Social Club]

ZDS is associated with Ustaše. Croatia just never truly denazified unlike Germany who took full responsibility.

Source: studied WWII

Germany took full responsibility? Hmmmmm do tell?

 

[oranges]

learn your history before WWII.

ZDS started way before WWII in 15th Century, yes Ustase used it in 1941, and we also used in the 90s in our civil war.

i still use it today.

so fuck off with your selective history bullshit.

ZDS

It's still a phrase associated with fascism and is far right (ignoring that its historical use is also very debated). Maybe there's an argument of reclamation on an absolute limb - but most people using ZDS are far-right at a minimum. To argue a phrase you can't use in Croatia as it is deemed to incite hatred isn't associated with fascism is very ungrounded

 

[Muz]

The Croatian people that support the salute know its not fascist, as its an old croatian salute. But dont let your selective history get in the way of that.

So explain why is it banned in Croatia?

The Nazi salute is banned in Germany and Germans know exactly why.

 

[Muz]

Germany took full responsibility? Hmmmmm do tell?

Come on, be fair. Germany has done way better at taking responsibility than Japan who still, to this day, claim to be the victim.

 

[Beretta]

So explain why is it banned in Croatia?

The Nazi salute is banned in Germany and Germans know exactly why.

Leftist Government.

Go to Croatia, look around and tell me if its banned. lol

 

[Beretta]

It's still a phrase associated with fascism and is far right (ignoring that its historical use is also very debated). Maybe there's an argument of reclamation on an absolute limb - but most people using ZDS are far-right at a minimum. To argue a phrase you can't use in Croatia as it is deemed to incite hatred isn't associated with fascism is very ungrounded

Am i meant to be offended by you calling it far-right? lol

I'm not ignoring it. i stated all the times when it was used, and we will continue to use it.

For the Homeland, Ready.

 

[Monoethnic Social Club]

Come on, be fair. Germany has done way better at taking responsibility than Japan who still, to this day, claim to be the victim.

No argument there... But I guess NASA, Raytheon and Northrup Grumman didnt want any Japanese scientists after the war

Germand school kids may be taught to be ashamed by their parents, but fat, sunburnt descendants of genocidal bastards still visit little "war memorials" all over the Balkans every summer and have their little chuckle at how they rise to economic splendour on the backs of the very people the tried to wipe off the face of the earth...

The Fallschirmjager memorial in Chania - Then and Now.

This is the large memorial to II. Battalion FJR Sturm Regiment just outside of Chania in Crete. It was erected in 1941 and to this day is still seen as...

ww2talk.com

 

[Muz]

Leftist Government.

Go to Croatia, look around and tell me if its banned. lol

People doing it and it being banned are 2 separate things.

It's banned and it's banned for a reason. You know exactly why. Your weasel words and 'historical' references mean fuck all.

 

[Muz]

No argument there... But I guess NASA, Raytheon and Northrup Grumman didnt want any Japanese scientists after the war

German school kids may be taught to be ashamed by their parents, but fat, sunburnt descendants of genocidal bastards still visit little "war memorials" all over the Balkans every summer and have their little chuckle at how they rise to economic splendour on the backs of the very people the tried to wipe off the face of the earth...

The Fallschirmjager memorial in Chania - Then and Now.

This is the large memorial to II. Battalion FJR Sturm Regiment just outside of Chania in Crete. It was erected in 1941 and to this day is still seen as...

ww2talk.com

The US rocket program owes plenty to the German scientists/kidnapped/coerced it accepted but Russia was also busily rounding up as many Germans as it could to work in their space program. (And I would argue most of the scientists weren't hard core Nazis anyway.) Side note: Only 10% of Germans were members of the Nazi party.

More of a disgrace was the Americans doing a deal with the Japanese for all of their data in exchange for letting the vast majority of the perpetrators go from Unit 731 in China.

The most disgusting, debased, filthy episode of WW2 and that's from a very large field of contenders.

Unit 731 - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Just pips Jasenovac concentration camps which even the most hard core Nazis thought was fucking mental.

Jasenovac concentration camp - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Beretta]

People doing it and it being banned are 2 separate things.

It's banned and it's banned for a reason. You know exactly why. Your weasel words and 'historical' references mean fuck all.

its not banned by law in Croatia.

Try again clown.

 

[Monoethnic Social Club]

The US rocket program owes plenty to the German scientists it accepted but Russia was also busily rounding up as many Germans as it could to work in their space program. (And I would argue most of the scientists weren't hard core Nazis anyway.) Side note: Only 10% of Germans were members of the Nazi party.

More of a disgrace was the Americans doing a deal with the Japanese for all of their data in exchange for letting the vast majority of the perpetrators go from Unit 731 in China.

The most disgusting, debased, filthy episode of WW2 and that's from a very large field of contenders.

Unit 731 - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Just pips Jasenovac concentration camps which even the most hard core Nazis thought was fucking mental.

Jasenovac concentration camp - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

There is indeed a massive field of contenders for the worst actions during WW2 ... Most perpetrated but that little fat alcoholic in Dowing St.

Athens 1944: Britain’s dirty secret

When 28 civilians were killed in Athens, it wasn’t the Nazis who were to blame, it was the British. Ed Vulliamy and Helena Smith reveal how Churchill’s shameful decision to turn on the partisans who had fought on our side in the war sowed the seeds for the rise of the far right in Greece today

www.theguardian.com

 

[GDEATHE]

it's 2003 again Ubi Chetnic everyone

 

[Muz]

its not banned by law in Croatia.

Try again clown.

As someone who has Croatian heritage you're an embarrassment.

Milanovic: The Ustasha Salute has no Place in Today's Croatia - Sarajevo Times

Ustasha greetings, symbols and songs that undoubtedly celebrate the regime of the so-called NDH, and what could be seen and heard last night in Imotski, before and during a concert – have no place and must not have a place in today’s democratic Republic of Croatia, President of the Republic of...

sarajevotimes.com

Ustasha greetings, symbols and songs that undoubtedly celebrate the regime of the so-called NDH, and what could be seen and heard last night in Imotski, before and during a concert – have no place and must not have a place in today’s democratic Republic of Croatia, President of the Republic of Croatia Zoran Milanović said on Wednesday.

 

[tsf]

People doing it and it being banned are 2 separate things.

It's banned and it's banned for a reason. You know exactly why. Your weasel words and 'historical' references mean fuck all.

Also go to croatia and ask them what they think of these clowns over here going on with this shit.

The vast majority of people (with an above primary school education) are embarrassed by these villagers in far off Oz

 

[tsf]

https://balkaninsight.com/2019/09/10/in-australia-some-croats-openly-celebrate-fascism/

old but interesting

 

[tsf]

Maybe we can explain the 'no left turn' lol

Australian Croats Haven’t Forgotten Their Demonization by the Left

The stigmatization of Australia Croatians in the 1960s and 1970s as ‘Fascists’ and as objects of suspicion is a reminder of just how dangerous and damaging politicising ethnic identities can be.

balkaninsight.com

 

[Muz]

Also go to croatia and ask them what they think of these clowns over here going on with this shit.

The vast majority of people (with an above primary school education) are embarrassed by these villagers in far off Oz

100%.