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Ustaše in Australian soccer

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HonestSpursFan

HonestSpursFan

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There have been multiple posts on r/ALeague about Ustaše banners and slogans at Canberra Croatia games, so I decided to make my own little opinion piece, including some info about who the Ustaše actually were (basically they were Croatian fascists that were so brutal that even Nazis were sickened by them).



Like the others, it's now locked so no new comments can be added but in the post itself I call for something simple, yet somehow difficult: Croatian Australian footballers, male and female, must call out this behaviour. I have a lot of respect for greats like Mark Viduka and Tony Popović, but they need to call out this. Saying "za dom spremni" is just like saying "heil Hitler", and using Ustaše symbols is just like using Nazi symbols like the swastika.
 
im curious myself but not eager to accuse whole communities without water tight evidence

I know on soccertwitter that there was an accusation that there was an ustase poster and apparently it was some different croatian (then another said that different croatians committed war crimes. I heard someone say that they remember their heritage warts and all and this general was remembered for his role in croatian independence not for his war crimes. I note that there is a statue of james cook in cairns who i believe had some skeletons in his closet about his relationship with Aboriginals).

On a league reddit there is a post about "no left turn" being facist. That seems pretty implausible to me?

In any case it is pretty hard to fact check these things so plan a pod down the track on this subject with people i can learn from
 
HonestSpursFan said:
There have been multiple posts on r/ALeague about Ustaše banners and slogans at Canberra Croatia games, so I decided to make my own little opinion piece, including some info about who the Ustaše actually were (basically they were Croatian fascists that were so brutal that even Nazis were sickened by them).



Like the others, it's now locked so no new comments can be added but in the post itself I call for something simple, yet somehow difficult: Croatian Australian footballers, male and female, must call out this behaviour. I have a lot of respect for greats like Mark Viduka and Tony Popović, but they need to call out this. Saying "za dom spremni" is just like saying "heil Hitler", and using Ustaše symbols is just like using Nazi symbols like the swastika.
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triggered by a no left turn banner. :ROFLMAO:

dont you Yids have anything else better to do with your time?
 
HonestSpursFan said:
There have been multiple posts on r/ALeague about Ustaše banners and slogans at Canberra Croatia games, so I decided to make my own little opinion piece, including some info about who the Ustaše actually were (basically they were Croatian fascists that were so brutal that even Nazis were sickened by them).



Like the others, it's now locked so no new comments can be added but in the post itself I call for something simple, yet somehow difficult: Croatian Australian footballers, male and female, must call out this behaviour. I have a lot of respect for greats like Mark Viduka and Tony Popović, but they need to call out this. Saying "za dom spremni" is just like saying "heil Hitler", and using Ustaše symbols is just like using Nazi symbols like the swastika.
Click to expand...

WOW, are we doing posts about racism in Australian Football now?

Can you give us a history lesson on the NCIP next please?

Or is it oligarchical right wing extremism you abhor, in which case I would guess your not a fan of the city football group?
 
I
grazorblade said:
im curious myself but not eager to accuse whole communities without water tight evidence

I know on soccertwitter that there was an accusation that there was an ustase poster and apparently it was some different croatian (then another said that different croatians committed war crimes. I heard someone say that they remember their heritage warts and all and this general was remembered for his role in croatian independence not for his war crimes. I note that there is a statue of james cook in cairns who i believe had some skeletons in his closet about his relationship with Aboriginals).

On a league reddit there is a post about "no left turn" being facist. That seems pretty implausible to me?

In any case it is pretty hard to fact check these things so plan a pod down the track on this subject with people i can learn from
Click to expand...
I don't think the "No Left Turn" sign is fascist but ZDS is.
 
Monoethnic Social Club said:
WOW, are we doing posts about racism in Australian Football now?

Can you give us a history lesson on the NCIP next please?

Or is it oligarchical right wing extremism you abhor, in which case I would guess your not a fan of the city football group?
Click to expand...
I don’t like any discrimination, whether it’s left-wing (like the antisemitism that uni student was spouting in Sydney) or right-wing (like this).
 
BA81 said:
Seriousness of the topic aside, I’m lowkey dying@ this bit from one of the responses to a SMH/The Age article👇🏼😂

View attachment 3886
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I don’t know. A chubby little bloke who missed the memo
on ultras.com about wearing a Liverpool shirt while prancing around with a ‘no left turn’ banner at a football match in the boondocks of Australia is high educated behaviour
 
HonestSpursFan said:
I

I don't think the "No Left Turn" sign is fascist but ZDS is.
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On my to do list to learn...here is what ai claims

ZDS in Croatian ContextIn the Croatian context, ZDS is most commonly an abbreviation for Za Dom Spremni (translated as "For the Homeland – Ready!" or "For Home – Ready!"). This phrase originated as the official salute of the Ustaše movement during World War II, which governed the fascist puppet state known as the Independent State of Croatia (NDH, 1941–1945). It was mandatory in official and public use at the time, serving as the Ustaše equivalent to the Nazi "Sieg Heil" salute, and is tied to the regime's genocidal campaigns against Serbs, Jews, Roma, and others.Historical and Modern Significance
  • WWII Origins: Coined by the Ustaše leader Ante Pavelić, it symbolized radical Croatian nationalism and fascist loyalty. Its use was widespread in propaganda, military oaths, and everyday greetings within the NDH.
  • Post-WWII Revival: Banned under Yugoslav rule, it reemerged in the 1990s during Croatia's War of Independence (1991–1995). It was adopted by the Croatian Defence Forces (HOS), a paramilitary wing of the right-wing Croatian Party of Rights (HSP), who incorporated it into their logo and as an official greeting to evoke anti-fascist resistance against Serb forces. Some veterans and far-right groups view it as a symbol of Croatian defense and patriotism, detached from its Ustaše roots.
  • Contemporary Controversy: Today, ZDS remains highly divisive in Croatia and internationally:
    • Proponents (often far-right nationalists) argue it's a legitimate expression of Croatian sovereignty, especially linked to the Homeland War. It's chanted at events like concerts by singer Marko Perković Thompson, who incorporates it into his lyrics.
    • Critics (historians, anti-fascist groups, and minorities) see it as hate speech promoting racism, antisemitism, and ethnic intolerance, equivalent to Nazi symbolism. Public incidents, such as chants at soccer matches or parliamentary speeches, have sparked outrage and legal debates.
    • Legal Status: Croatian courts have inconsistently ruled on it—sometimes banning it under general hate speech laws, but not always prosecuting. A 2019 survey showed 45% of Croats opposed banning it outright. It's banned in some contexts (e.g., memorials) but permitted in others tied to HOS veterans.
 
grazorblade said:
On my to do list to learn...here is what ai claims

ZDS in Croatian ContextIn the Croatian context, ZDS is most commonly an abbreviation for Za Dom Spremni (translated as "For the Homeland – Ready!" or "For Home – Ready!"). This phrase originated as the official salute of the Ustaše movement during World War II, which governed the fascist puppet state known as the Independent State of Croatia (NDH, 1941–1945). It was mandatory in official and public use at the time, serving as the Ustaše equivalent to the Nazi "Sieg Heil" salute, and is tied to the regime's genocidal campaigns against Serbs, Jews, Roma, and others.Historical and Modern Significance
  • WWII Origins: Coined by the Ustaše leader Ante Pavelić, it symbolized radical Croatian nationalism and fascist loyalty. Its use was widespread in propaganda, military oaths, and everyday greetings within the NDH.
  • Post-WWII Revival: Banned under Yugoslav rule, it reemerged in the 1990s during Croatia's War of Independence (1991–1995). It was adopted by the Croatian Defence Forces (HOS), a paramilitary wing of the right-wing Croatian Party of Rights (HSP), who incorporated it into their logo and as an official greeting to evoke anti-fascist resistance against Serb forces. Some veterans and far-right groups view it as a symbol of Croatian defense and patriotism, detached from its Ustaše roots.
    • Proponents (often far-right nationalists) argue it's a legitimate expression of Croatian sovereignty, especially linked to the Homeland War. It's chanted at events like concerts by singer Marko Perković Thompson, who incorporates it into his lyrics.
    • Critics (historians, anti-fascist groups, and minorities) see it as hate speech promoting racism, antisemitism, and ethnic intolerance, equivalent to Nazi symbolism. Public incidents, such as chants at soccer matches or parliamentary speeches, have sparked outrage and legal debates.
    • Legal Status: Croatian courts have inconsistently ruled on it—sometimes banning it under general hate speech laws, but not always prosecuting. A 2019 survey showed 45% of Croats opposed banning it outright. It's banned in some contexts (e.g., memorials) but permitted in others tied to HOS veterans.
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ZDS is associated with Ustaše. Croatia just never truly denazified unlike Germany who took full responsibility.

Source: studied WWII
 
HonestSpursFan said:
ZDS is associated with Ustaše. Croatia just never truly denazified unlike Germany who took full responsibility.

Source: studied WWII
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I Wonder if there are studies on croatians as well as croatian australians whether there are genuine flashing redlights like elevated rates of hate crimes, or whether some horrific parts of their past has been mythologised into some patriotic mush where the sinister elements have faded (hey we have australia day, the yanks have columbus day)

Admittedly thats still not ideal, but if its not spilling over into genuine facist actions like hate crimes or support for extremist policies like eugenics or a military dictatorship that could be mitigating. Do u know if there is research on this?
 
grazorblade said:
I Wonder if there are studies on croatians as well as croatian australians whether there are genuine flashing redlights like elevated rates of hate crimes, or whether some horrific parts of their past has been mythologised into some patriotic mush where the sinister elements have faded (hey we have australia day, the yanks have columbus day)

Admittedly thats still not ideal, but if its not spilling over into genuine facist actions like hate crimes or support for extremist policies like eugenics or a military dictatorship that could be mitigating. Do u know if there is research on this?
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I don’t think so, but Yugoslavia being communist for so long and not properly addressing the issue of fascism (despite communism being fiercely anti-fascist) was a big problem and again unlike West Germany who went through a lot of denazification, Yugoslavia never did.

Even in East Germany today the former communist government didn’t denazify East Germany in the same way West Germany did and the economy in East Germany is worse than the West even today. The economic hardships in East Germany are pretty much the reason why the right-wing AfD (basically the German version of One Nation or Reform UK) is so popular there (at the last German federal election they won every single seat in former East Germany outside of East Berlin).

As for Australia Day I am pro-keeping the date and I think we have recently been good at celebrating all Australian history (not just British history) on Australia Day each year, but that’s a different story.
 
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