Socceroos vs Canada/USA Oct 25

[tsf]

You knew what I meant when I used the word "pedigree" in football. It doesn't refer to their ancestry but to the individual players past achievements. I think you took the meaning too literally. It's individual pedigree.

Can you explain what you mean by pedigree ,then to clear things up.

 

[tsf]

To be fair to Bbouy, the usage of "pedigree" in football discussions has undergone a degree of polysemy over the last decade or so. In other words, its accepted meaning has changed due to the incorrect usage now being accepted by the majority.

So, when talking about a footballer's pedigree, a commentator is not talking about his lineage but rather the vague, amorphous totality of what he/she has done in football to this point.

It's similar to the way people use the word epicentre - ie, referring to some uber centrality meaning more than just centre. In fact, epicentre properly means the place on the Earth's crust above the focus of an earthquake. And that's all it meant until comparatively recently.

Unclear cliches tbh

if you then took 'pedigree' as you explain it- he's done nothing, so doesnt deserve it. If pedigree was (an incorrect) term used for 'potential talent', then maybe you could justify his selection.

Anyway we going too deep here lol

 

[Kitwally]

In this case “pedigree” could mean that he was on the books at Man City, and played well in the Championship last season at a very young age?

 

[patjennings]

Oh ok all those Peru articles were BS? The world of football is crazy lol

If you are a football journo on Australia there are a limited amount of professional teams and a limited number of potential Socceroos. Nearly every second article you read is BS - a lot of it derived from overseas and reported by AI as truth and is then picked up by a journo here. Unfortunately journalism isn't what it was 30 years ago.

 

[Mr Cleansheets]

Unclear cliches tbh

if you then took 'pedigree' as you explain it- he's done nothing, so doesnt deserve it. If pedigree was (an incorrect) term used for 'potential talent', then maybe you could justify his selection.

Anyway we going too deep here lol

Definitely, but Kitwally at #323 nails it.

 

[verrelli]

To be fair to Bbouy, the usage of "pedigree" in football discussions has undergone a degree of polysemy over the last decade or so. In other words, its accepted meaning has changed due to the incorrect usage now being accepted by the majority.

So, when talking about a footballer's pedigree, a commentator is not talking about his lineage but rather the vague, amorphous totality of what he/she has done in football to this point.

It's similar to the way people use the word epicentre - ie, referring to some uber centrality meaning more than just centre. In fact, epicentre properly means the place on the Earth's crust above the focus of an earthquake. And that's all it meant until comparatively recently.

This is a pretty cogent explanation. Happy to accept that bbuoy and I were seemingly talking at cross purposes. His use of the word pedigree wasn't at all in keeping with my understanding or use of the word, but you've made a strong enough case on his behalf that I can appreciate he was coming at it from a different angle to me.

 

[Decentric]

oh there are plenty of players who I rate who don't cut it for regular minutes in the big 5. The level is very high and there is no shame not making it

I am not dumping on his legacy, just pointing out that its not a crazy level for his son to achieve especially given what I've seen of both players. I've only seen Okon in the roos and youth teams (every game I could find). He is a good player, but his club career of being a fringe big 5 player looks about right to me to be honest. Okon Jr looks slightly more technical and slightly better physically being quite tall and having more defensive grit. Of course, potential means nothing if he doesn't achieve it

Okon Jr looks to be better off the ball - tackling, heading, body on body duels, plus jockeying, showing, delaying.

Okon Sr had quite a few injury problems and played in Belgium, EPL and Serie A, but as you suggest he rarely had a 25 game season. He was a very good player on the ball.

 

[Decentric]

Big call. Paul Okon was a fantastic Socceroo.

In those days Euroroos who played in big leagues weren't critically evaluated down to minute detail, like they are now.

When one goes back and looks at those old games, boy oh boy, did they have some faults
and weaknesses.

Those leagues are almost like world 's best leagues now, with many players from all around the globe playing and competing for starting positions.

England only has about 30% domestic players in the EPL, France has about 60%, Spain might be about 50%, Germany 50%, Italy about 40%. It is harder for local players to get into their own top divisions.

Many of our Euroroos in the 90s and early 2000s, who played in top UEFA leagues, often in an out of teams, didn't have the same level of competition from around the globe as current times.

 

[grazorblade]

In those days Euroroos who played in big leagues weren't critically evaluated down to minute detail, like they are now.

When one goes back and looks at those old games, boy oh boy, did they have some faults
and weaknesses.

Those leagues are almost like world 's best leagues now, with many players from all around the globe playing and competing for starting positions.

England only has about 30% domestic players in the EPL, France has about 60%, Spain might be about 50%, Germany 50%, Italy about 40%. It is harder for local players to get into their own top divisions.

Many of our Euroroos in the 90s and early 2000s, who played in top UEFA leagues, often in an out of teams, didn't have the same level of competition from around the globe as current times.

by the time you get to the early to mid 00s it is pretty similar to today actually, so the gg had a similar competitive environment

its true that it was probably easier in the mid 90s

 

[Bbouy]

With all respect, I'm not sure you understand the word pedigree. I don't know what "individual pedigree" is supposed to mean if you're saying it has nothing to do with their lineage. Which of the two definitions of the word were you using?

pedigree
/ˈpɛdɪɡriː/

noun
noun: pedigree; plural noun: pedigrees

1. 1.
   the record of descent of an animal, showing it to be pure-bred.
   "they are looking for animals with pedigrees"
   • a pure-bred animal.
2. 2.
   the recorded ancestry or lineage of a person or family.
   "with a pedigree equal to many of the gentry"

I don't want to argue over semantics but the context was very obvious.

I’m using pedigree in its standard football sense: a player’s track record or credentials, not their family line. Modern dictionaries include that figurative sense (the background or history of a person or thing), and football coverage uses it constantly, think European pedigree, managerial pedigree, international pedigree. No one believes that’s about someone’s parents.

So when I said individual pedigree, I meant his own footballing record and the levels he’s played at, competitions, honours, consistency, performances. If you prefer, think of it as his track record. The usage is both idiomatic and widely understood in this context.

I just didn't quite understand why you would think pedigree would be referring so literally to his ancestry when everyone knows how it's used in sporting context.

 

[Bbouy]

I'm so confused, he hasn't been training at full intensity but decided to sort out his paperwork to make sure he could be picked for the Socceroos?

I don't really like it. Seems to have an inflated ego and believes he's better than L1, that rubs off in training and in the group. Did he forget he was relegated from the Championship last season?

I think Robbo's big issue is physicality, just doesn't have any for a midfielder. Look at Mo, Nestory, Jordy physicality is good asset they have that will allow them to progress through the leagues.

Someone also said - "having other clubs after him, unsure if he'll even stay in Cardiff after the transfer window."

The window has been shut for months, you think someone will go for him in January with no game time? Are you people insane?

Robbo is actually quite physical. His dimensions not really but when he was playing box-to-box for Portsmouth, he was very physical and not afraid of a challenge. His technical ability allows him to sway past defenders comfortably to avoid physicality but in defensive stance he is surprisingly solid.

Mo is physical but he is also just 10 challenges away from another injury at any given point. Then again so is Robertson.

 

[Bbouy]

Unclear cliches tbh

if you then took 'pedigree' as you explain it- he's done nothing, so doesnt deserve it. If pedigree was (an incorrect) term used for 'potential talent', then maybe you could justify his selection.

Anyway we going too deep here lol

You just haven't watched him.

Those who have watched him know what he has done. Your comment isn't even worth the reply.

 

[juneof86]

Canada will start Max Crépeau in goal tomorrow and Ismaël Koné is fit to start as well. Formation will be a 4-4-2/4-2-3-1 with Jonathan David geing pretty free in a No. 10/second striker role. I'm going to guess it's Crépeau; Sigur, de Fougerolles, Cornelius, Laryea; Buchanan, Koné, Eustaquio, Ahmed; J David; Oluwaseyi.

Pretty chilly in Montreal today. Should be a bit warmer tomorrow but still around 10 degrees during the match. The match is sold out (though Stade Saputo is quite small), but hopefully there's a good atmosphere and a good competitive match. I think both sides play with a lot of intensity and energy so I expect nothing less.

 

[JS96]

I'm actually a bit disappointed Canada aren't full strength. Davies against Miller would've been something. I want to win but it's also about get the issues ironed out.

 

[tsf]

You just haven't watched him.

Those who have watched him know what he has done. Your comment isn't even worth the reply.

Are you 12? Act like an adult

 

[Pasquali]

 

[NoMates]

5-1 Canada, They have been destroying teams lately and this game won’t stop that. We are just not on the same level as Concafa teams.

 

[Dan_The_Red]

5-1 Canada, They have been destroying teams lately and this game won’t stop that. We are just not on the same level as Concafa teams.

Come on, surely you can predict some double-digit scores against us.

 

[Bbouy]

Are you 12? Act like an adult

That's ironic. You have nothing constructive to say or offer any value to this conversation. Stop replying.

 

[Fanoffootball]

In those days Euroroos who played in big leagues weren't critically evaluated down to minute detail, like they are now.

When one goes back and looks at those old games, boy oh boy, did they have some faults
and weaknesses.

Those leagues are almost like world 's best leagues now, with many players from all around the globe playing and competing for starting positions.

England only has about 30% domestic players in the EPL, France has about 60%, Spain might be about 50%, Germany 50%, Italy about 40%. It is harder for local players to get into their own top divisions.

Many of our Euroroos in the 90s and early 2000s, who played in top UEFA leagues, often in an out of teams, didn't have the same level of competition from around the globe as current times.

100% this.