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Socceroos vs Canada/USA Oct 25

verrelli said:
Yeah, i agree. I'm not sure we've yet seen a Socceroos gun who's father was also a Socceroos gun. That day will come. I know we've seen plenty of Julian Schwarzer's and Kyah Cahill's. And plenty more who've had sons that haven't even reached those heights or simply don't play at all.

I guess the key point i was making is that Robertson's lineage is the other end of the spectrum from the GG. Decidedly average careers. So I wouldn't reference pedigree in his case as though he comes from a stable of the legends of the game.

No doubt Robertson is good. Remains to be seen if he'll be much more than that.
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Both him and okon look better than their dads. Early days though and you never know which kids kick on and fulfil their potential
 
Cunningstunt said:
Mate, Paul Okon played Serie, epl and won the Belgium golden shoe for player of the season. This in a career pretty disrupted with injury.
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Devil is in the details there.....strictly speaking he played epl and seri a but how many seasons did he manage 25+games in either?
0 by my count
www.transfermarkt.co.uk

Paul Okon - Detailed stats

These are the detailed performance data of Karriereende player Paul Okon. The website contains a statistic about the performance data of the player.
www.transfermarkt.co.uk www.transfermarkt.co.uk
1 year if you count all competitions.
His profile also gives more info on his injury history
 
grazorblade said:
Did they sit as deep as poppa has them tho?
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6 and 8 territory. I was surprised myself as I thought we'd be towered but they had quick distribution and pressing from many areas meant high balls were less common from opponents. Top defence that season also.
 
grazorblade said:
Some context of where he is at

the narrator comments are fluff and more negative than the coaches quotes

www.portsmouth.co.uk

Cardiff boss' brutal message to former Pompey loanee as surprise absence explained

Former Pompey loanee Alex Robertson has failed to appear for Cardiff City in League One this season.
www.portsmouth.co.uk www.portsmouth.co.uk

I suspect pompey are a bit filthy robbo turned his back on them!

But the main context is that he has only just returned to full intensity and will have to earn his way back into the squad
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Reads like Robertson's lacking fitness or effort or both.
 
Quicky said:
Reads like Robertson's lacking fitness or effort or both.
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thought it read more innocent with the coach saying he is just returning to fitness and generic comments about wanting him to compete for starts rather than being gauranteed. But the narrator makes fairly vanilla comments sounds more critical than they were imo
 
grazorblade said:
Devil is in the details there.....strictly speaking he played epl and seri a but how many seasons did he manage 25+games in either?
0 by my count
www.transfermarkt.co.uk

Paul Okon - Detailed stats

These are the detailed performance data of Karriereende player Paul Okon. The website contains a statistic about the performance data of the player.
www.transfermarkt.co.uk www.transfermarkt.co.uk
1 year if you count all competitions.
His profile also gives more info on his injury history
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here we go again - its all in the details but this isn't always the clear picture.
Granted his game stats arn't high but when fit its about his presence and productivity no ?
One could play countless games but one can also be no where as effective let alone be as good on the ball.
I rate Paul highly regards to ability yep Injuries pretty much stifled a good long career but he sure done well the little time he played compared to usual long term players.
 
LFC said:
here we go again - its all in the details but this isn't always the clear picture.
Granted his game stats arn't high but when fit its about his presence and productivity no ?
One could play countless games but one can also be no where as effective let alone be as good on the ball.
I rate Paul highly regards to ability yep Injuries pretty much stifled a good long career but he sure done well the little time he played compared to usual long term players.
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oh there are plenty of players who I rate who don't cut it for regular minutes in the big 5. The level is very high and there is no shame not making it

I am not dumping on his legacy, just pointing out that its not a crazy level for his son to achieve especially given what I've seen of both players. I've only seen Okon in the roos and youth teams (every game I could find). He is a good player, but his club career of being a fringe big 5 player looks about right to me to be honest. Okon Jr looks slightly more technical and slightly better physically being quite tall and having more defensive grit. Of course, potential means nothing if he doesn't achieve it
 
grazorblade said:
oh there are plenty of players who I rate who don't cut it for regular minutes in the big 5. The level is very high and there is no shame not making it

I am not dumping on his legacy, just pointing out that its not a crazy level for his son to achieve especially given what I've seen of both players. I've only seen Okon in the roos and youth teams (every game I could find). He is a good player, but his club career of being a fringe big 5 player looks about right to me to be honest. Okon Jr looks slightly more technical and slightly better physically being quite tall and having more defensive grit. Of course, potential means nothing if he doesn't achieve it
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yes mate agree with your comments and know not dumping on his legacy.
You said the magic word re most/majority of our players since the early days - so much potential means nothing if you don't make it !
Hard to compare even father son players for they both end up having their own styles that shows one is better as you say Jnr defensively.
Snr was a good attacker/vision - maybe lacked the modern day technical skill of Jnr for it wasn't "trained" as modern times.
Look at another classic diff of Father and son the Lampards.
Everyone will say just as you quote re Jnr Okon having better skill, well Frank had that in spades compared to his Dad Frank Snr who was a traditional LB doing raids down the flank.
Chalk and cheese I hope Okon Jnr does develop in spades I know we both will re visit our discussion hopefully.
 
verrelli said:
I'm not sure "his pedigree alone is worth his selection". His dad Mark had a journeyman career and ended up with 1 single Socceroos cap. I feel fairly qualified to comment because I saw him plenty of times as a Marconi supporter back in my teens when he played there and he was nowhere near the best players in the team at that time.

Regarding his grandfather Alex, per Wikipedia, "Alex, had emigrated from Scotland to play for Sydney City in the National Soccer League and eventually represented Australia eight times in non-official matches". Again, not exactly Lionel Messi.

Pedigree shouldn't be part of the discussion at all apart from an interesting piece of trivia. I suspect the family history means plenty to him which maybe is why he has eventually come around, but as far as pedigree in the sense of him having some sort of supreme footballing genetics... no, I think not. If anything, his genetics suggests he'll be a very run-of-the-mill footballer!
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I don't see how mentioning his family and there "shortcomings" means anything regarding Alex's pedigree which is the relevant point I was making.

This is a completely different team, missing a Alex Robertson type of player and I'm sure both of his Dad and Granddad were very different players. The important context of that quote is that it's within the realms of an experimental phase and team and Alex Robertson is an obvious choice. In the end, I'm arguing against the naysayers to his selection as I understand the logic and would do the same.

You knew what I meant when I used the word "pedigree" in football. It doesn't refer to their ancestry but to the individual players past achievements. I think you took the meaning too literally. It's individual pedigree.
 
Bbouy said:
I don't see how mentioning his family and there "shortcomings" means anything regarding Alex's pedigree which is the relevant point I was making.

This is a completely different team, missing a Alex Robertson type of player and I'm sure both of his Dad and Granddad were very different players. The important context of that quote is that it's within the realms of an experimental phase and team and Alex Robertson is an obvious choice. In the end, I'm arguing against the naysayers to his selection as I understand the logic and would do the same.

You knew what I meant when I used the word "pedigree" in football. It doesn't refer to their ancestry but to the individual players past achievements. I think you took the meaning too literally. It's individual pedigree.
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With all respect, I'm not sure you understand the word pedigree. I don't know what "individual pedigree" is supposed to mean if you're saying it has nothing to do with their lineage. Which of the two definitions of the word were you using?

pedigree
/ˈpɛdɪɡriː/

noun
noun: pedigree; plural noun: pedigrees
  1. 1.
    the record of descent of an animal, showing it to be pure-bred.
    "they are looking for animals with pedigrees"
    • a pure-bred animal.
  2. 2.
    the recorded ancestry or lineage of a person or family.
    "with a pedigree equal to many of the gentry"
 
To be fair to Bbouy, the usage of "pedigree" in football discussions has undergone a degree of polysemy over the last decade or so. In other words, its accepted meaning has changed due to the incorrect usage now being accepted by the majority.

So, when talking about a footballer's pedigree, a commentator is not talking about his lineage but rather the vague, amorphous totality of what he/she has done in football to this point.

It's similar to the way people use the word epicentre - ie, referring to some uber centrality meaning more than just centre. In fact, epicentre properly means the place on the Earth's crust above the focus of an earthquake. And that's all it meant until comparatively recently.
 
After watching Poppas press conference I’ve changed my tune on Robbos inclusion in the squad..

We do need to experiment with different players, with only a few windows left to do so… if he has made himself available for us, that’s all I want to hear, if he proves to be of quality in training, and somehow gets on the pitch whilst displaying abilities we currently don’t have, then great.
If not, doesn’t matter as it’s just a friendly, which we historically haven’t had the consistent luxury of in the last I’d say three qualifying campaigns.
 
The4MW said:
After watching Poppas press conference I’ve changed my tune on Robbos inclusion in the squad..

We do need to experiment with different players, with only a few windows left to do so… if he has made himself available for us, that’s all I want to hear, if he proves to be of quality in training, and somehow gets on the pitch whilst displaying abilities we currently don’t have, then great.
If not, doesn’t matter as it’s just a friendly, which we historically haven’t had the consistent luxury of in the last I’d say three qualifying campaigns.
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Pretty much my view. I'm delighted to see Popa experiment after such a rigid qualifying campaign.

Still want to see Nizz get a run.
 
I'm so confused, he hasn't been training at full intensity but decided to sort out his paperwork to make sure he could be picked for the Socceroos?

I don't really like it. Seems to have an inflated ego and believes he's better than L1, that rubs off in training and in the group. Did he forget he was relegated from the Championship last season?

I think Robbo's big issue is physicality, just doesn't have any for a midfielder. Look at Mo, Nestory, Jordy physicality is good asset they have that will allow them to progress through the leagues.

Someone also said - "having other clubs after him, unsure if he'll even stay in Cardiff after the transfer window."

The window has been shut for months, you think someone will go for him in January with no game time? Are you people insane?
 
jas88 said:
I'm so confused, he hasn't been training at full intensity but decided to sort out his paperwork to make sure he could be picked for the Socceroos?

I don't really like it. Seems to have an inflated ego and believes he's better than L1, that rubs off in training and in the group. Did he forget he was relegated from the Championship last season?

I think Robbo's big issue is physicality, just doesn't have any for a midfielder. Look at Mo, Nestory, Jordy physicality is good asset they have that will allow them to progress through the leagues.

Someone also said - "having other clubs after him, unsure if he'll even stay in Cardiff after the transfer window."

The window has been shut for months, you think someone will go for him in January with no game time? Are you people insane?
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Since he had not been locked in for anyone there was no paperwork to be done. That was just a fob off by Popovic.
 
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