World news and politics.

[Muz]

I think the listed examples are extremes and very few would condone such actions. The campaigners have gone after the wrong people. The gradual creep into organisations and daily society has become exhausting for the general citizen. That's not an invitation to reply with 'sorry for asking people to be treated humanely'

Eventually what happened was it became so intense or common that people turned on it and stop caring. This isn't just LGBT but other things like Australia Day and all the other topics in between. The average person wanted to share their thoughts only to be shouted down and ridiculed. No wonder they got offside.

As I said, you've got liberal types who are more left and then start questioning all of these and get stamped as a traitor. These are the right voices as they engage in much better dialogue and seek clarification from a range of sides.

They are extreme examples and 'very few' is not none. You know for a fact that in say, Afghanistan, they wouldn't bat an eyelid at taking either if these actions.

Do we respect these opinions? Wouldn't that be the 'woke' thing to do? Accept other's beliefs without challenging them?

 

[JS96]

His opponents are college kids because he can speak over the to of them with fallacious arguments because there's no moderator to drag him back to the point.

'if smarter more educated people outwit him that's hardly a criticism'.

Are you serious? So when he got his arse handed to him by someone who actualy knew what they were talking about and came armed with facts and receipts 'that's hardly a criticism'? Say what?

You're saying he gets a free pass to get to say the dumbest shit imaginable to naive idiots but when bested by someone loaded with something more than a dozen prepared responses, you say 'that's hardly a criticism'.

Yes it is. When you get done in a debate you have been PROVEN to be wrong. You don't get a free pass by saying, well he was smarter than me.

If I want to argue about general relativity and speak absolute garbage to morons who swallow it whole and then go up against Brian Cox who schools me completely and tears me a new one I would not expect an outside observer to say well a smarter more educated (person) people outwit(ed) him, that's hardly a criticism (against Muz)'.''

You can't be serious. The mental gymnastics is amazing.

The Kirk and Shapiro debating environment is one of hype and entertainment. You see the debating societies at the world's best colleges and institutions by what we may describe as mature adults and it's much better to listen to. This is what we should strive for. The tactics used by these debaters can be identified and commended. A bit like two boxers respecting each other and knowing their own weaknesses.

 

[zimbos05]

I think he meant more moderate views are shouted down and immediately labelled as being a Nazi. These examples above here are extreme.

Was Hanson wrong in her prediction? No. Nearly every country has a parliamentarian who has said another group is going to take over demographically. We can denounce and disagree with her but she said it based on the premise of the policies at the time and they've come to fruition.

Farage isn't alone in his sentiment that the EU benefits the big players and other countries have been messed up. Not exclusively by the EU of course but I hasn't helped.

Some of the others here are to be immediately condemned as they don't constitute civil debate. Some of the names listed here at at two ends of the right spectrum and some are even off it completely. Disgusting humans.

He clearly said,

The left is guilty of dehumanizing language

and then said,

You don't see anywhere near the volume of this language from right associated people.

So i provided a small snippet.

As per the latest census too, Asians make up 17% of the population. I would barely call that being swamped. What she said was purely racist, mostly because she said it at a time when asian migration was low. Asian migration has contributed significantly to this country in a beneficial way. Has every migration been perfect, no, but the rhetoric to blame others is exactly what Hitler did with jews. They create a fear of someone else, and put the blame on another race. As for the EU. I was in the UK when they voted to leave. Everything he said about benefits for leaving have been proven to be false. Farage is just one of those people who wants a piece of the pie for himself.

 

[Dan_The_Red]

So for context 'However, I can understand other people have different views to mine and that should be respected too.'

Like what?

Do you respect those beliefs that gays should be stoned to death or trans people are mentally ill and should be shot?

Do you think it's not OK to say to people that these people are nothing to be feared, that allowing gay people to marriage won't destroy society or do you want to turn the clock back hundreds of years?

This 'woke agenda' has personally affected you how? What do you not have now that you had 10 years ago? How are you materially of mentally affected by this woke agenda? Has your life gotten worse? Do you miss the days when you could use racist slurs or bash homosexuals?

I'm genuinely interested because you're the first bloke here to have a crack at a definition.

I respect peoples beliefs that marriage is between a man and woman as per historical religious teaching. I disagree with them, as heterosexual people have done a fine job of destroying any notions of 'sanctity' but I still respect their right to disagree and leave them in peace.

Trans is a far more complicated discussion, as I've seen plenty of videos featuring self-described transgenders admitting regret at their body altering decisions made during youth immaturity. Speaks to being not so cut and dry as "I'm born in the wrong body". How this is handled, medically, moving forward I have no idea. Practically solutions such as public toilets and changerooms featuring male/female/disabled/trans would probably be a reasonable start.

Why must a person need to be negatively impacted to have an opinion? The issue has always been that organizations like government and sports bodies don't get to be the moral compass of all human society. We need to be able to respectfully communicate without agenda's forcing division. Live, and let live essentially.

 

[Muz]

The Kirk and Shapiro debating environment is one of hype and entertainment. You see the debating societies at the world's best colleges and institutions by what we may describe as mature adults and it's much better to listen to. This is what we should strive for. The tactics used by these debaters can be identified and commended. A bit like two boxers respecting each other and knowing their own weaknesses.

Yes, yes yes but you're missing the main point. If Kirk is spewing misinformation and hatred about, to take one example, trans people with regards to gun deaths and it's eaten up by audiences WHO BELIEVE IT, and in the main are there to support him, can you not concede that those 'debates' can cause actual harm?

Do you think that's OK?

I am old enough to remember when 'poofta bashing' bashing was a thing. I lived in Sydney during the 80s. There are 70 something unsolved murders of gay men from that time period and I can tell you for a fact when people were saying gay people are nothing to be feared and just normal people wanting to go about their lives they were labelled as do-gooders (the antecedent of PC or woke as it's now become.)

That is not good. The same people who now say, who cares if a bloke put a dress on, are now labelled zealots trying to institute a 'woke ideology'.

 

[JS96]

They are extreme examples and 'very few' is not none. You know for a fact that in say, Afghanistan, they wouldn't bat an eyelid at taking either if these actions.

Do we respect these opinions? Wouldn't that be the 'woke' thing to do? Accept other's beliefs without challenging them?

Certainly correct that very few means it still exists. In turn, a common argument is something is so minuscule it needn't be addressed. Perhaps small in quantity but high in danger or risk so it needs to be dealt with accordingly.

 

[Muz]

I respect peoples beliefs that marriage is between a man and woman as per historical religious teaching. I disagree with them, as heterosexual people have done a fine job of destroying any notions of 'sanctity' but I still respect their right to disagree and leave them in peace.

Trans is a far more complicated discussion, as I've seen plenty of videos featuring self-described transgenders admitting regret at their body altering decisions made during youth immaturity. Speaks to being not so cut and dry as "I'm born in the wrong body". How this is handled, medically, moving forward I have no idea. Practically solutions such as public toilets and changerooms featuring male/female/disabled/trans would probably be a reasonable start.

Why must a person need to be negatively impacted to have an opinion? The issue has always been that organizations like government and sports bodies don't get to be the moral compass of all human society. We need to be able to respectfully communicate without agenda's forcing division. Live, and let live essentially.

You can have a negative opinion but I asked you how are you materially or mentally affected by the 'woke agenda'. How has your life changed at all for the worse or even at all.

 

[NoMates]

Woke = When CCM and Wellington forced there players to have pronouns in their bio but the players refused so it was dumped, Someone in the APL tried to push it all because of a player from Adelaide felt offended. Fk off!

 

[Muz]

Certainly correct that very few means it still exists. In turn, a common argument is something is so minuscule it needn't be addressed. Perhaps small in quantity but high in danger or risk so it needs to be dealt with accordingly.

But therein lies the problem. It's a spectrum from completely ignoring them to throwing them out a tower.

So it's not OK to kill them but bashing them is OK, harassing them on the street, discriminating against them, abusing them online?

And that's what happens.

How is it 'woke' to say leave these people alone? If someone has a giant beard and is wearing a pair of speedos and introduces himself as Michelle, who gives a flying fuck?

 

[JS96]

Yes, yes yes but you're missing the main point. If Kirk is spewing misinformation and hatred about, to take one example, trans people with regards to gun deaths and it's eaten up by audiences WHO BELIEVE IT, in the main that are there to support him, can you not concede that those 'debates' can cause actual harm?

Do you think that's OK?

I am old enough to remember when 'poofta bashing' bashing was a thing. I lived in Sydney during the 80s. There are 70 something unsolved murders of gay men from that time period and I can tell you for a fact when people were saying gay people are nothing to be feared and just normal people wanting to go about their lives they were labelled as do-gooders (the antecedent of PC or woke as it's now become.)

That is not good. The same people who now say, who cares if a bloke put a dress on, are now labelled zealots trying to institute a 'woke ideology'.

Yes I agree these debates can be harmful. The internet has made it worse that such views spread very easily and reach those who are adversely affected by hearing it.

The same has to be said for those who spew hate against a nation, culture or even professional choice. What I'm saying is the spread of hateful views that undermine someone's identity whether it be country, culture and profession at a stretch can also harm and piss people off. Yeah sure, people should just toughen up and ignore it but I see little difference in the category that is being hated and the harm, hate and anger it breeds against the other side.

 

[Dan_The_Red]

You can have a negative opinion but I asked you how are you materially or mentally affected by the 'woke agenda'. How has your life changed at all for the worse or even at all.

Why does a persons life need to materially or mentally alter to simply agree it isn't the place for government or sports bodies to force a belief system on anyone? Do you disagree with free will?

 

[JS96]

But therein lies the problem. It's a spectrum from completely ignoring them to throwing them out a tower.

So it's not OK to kill them but bashing them is OK, harassing them on the street, discriminating against them, abusing them online?

And that's what happens.

How is it 'woke' to say leave these people alone? If someone has a giant beard and is wearing a pair of speedos and introduces himself as Michelle, who gives a flying fuck?

I don't think I've suggested a certain attack against a group is still OK while others are not.

I'm referring to the fact that other matters, low in rate of incidence, get glossed over when it's probably the same rate of trans hate but the latter gets all the attention. Certainly hate and harm of all kinds need to be eradicated but there are some that get a much bigger spotlight and campaign when it may not be as big as it is presented. This is statement referring to a lot of matters of the past decades.

 

[melbcityguy]

All this is to complicated I'm gonna just be nice to everyone and watch my irrelevant football

 

[Dan_The_Red]

But therein lies the problem. It's a spectrum from completely ignoring them to throwing them out a tower.

So it's not OK to kill them but bashing them is OK, harassing them on the street, discriminating against them, abusing them online?

And that's what happens.

How is it 'woke' to say leave these people alone? If someone has a giant beard and is wearing a pair of speedos and introduces himself as Michelle, who gives a flying fuck?

No-one is condoning violence. You've clearly missed the point.

 

[JS96]

He clearly said,


and then said,



So i provided a small snippet.

As per the latest census too, Asians make up 17% of the population. I would barely call that being swamped. What she said was purely racist, mostly because she said it at a time when asian migration was low. Asian migration has contributed significantly to this country in a beneficial way. Has every migration been perfect, no, but the rhetoric to blame others is exactly what Hitler did with jews. They create a fear of someone else, and put the blame on another race. As for the EU. I was in the UK when they voted to leave. Everything he said about benefits for leaving have been proven to be false. Farage is just one of those people who wants a piece of the pie for himself.

You were very right to provide such examples. I don't think Dan would deny that exists. I think we need a real balance in schools for children to review and assess sources and come to a fair conclusion. Radical views from either end need to be denounced. The challenge is where to draw the line. I guess we'll still be considering that for years to come.

France and Germany are in the EU and are struggling immensely so what's their excuse?

 

[JS96]

All this is to complicated I'm gonna just be nice to everyone and watch my irrelevant football

This is sort of the position Melbourne City have. Just do your thing while everyone else squabbles around you.

 

[Dan_The_Red]

Donald Trump:

“They’re poisoning the blood of our country”. referring to immigration.
“These aren’t people. These are animals". referring to some undocumented immigrants.

Pauline Hanson:

“Most Australians want our immigration policy radically reviewed and that of multiculturalism abolished. I believe we are in danger of being swamped by Asians".
Anders Breivik:

"The aim of the killings was for racial purity and to change the direction of multi-cultural drift, to avoid greater confrontation and civil war. The only way I could protect the white native Norwegian was through violence".

Charlie Kirk:

"If I see a Black pilot, I would wonder if they were qualified".
"The main reason for a woman to go to college is to find a husband".

Steve Bannon:

"Darkness is good. Dick Cheney. Darth Vader. Satan. That's power".

Nigel Farage:

"The EU is a German racket designed to take over Europe".

Ann Coulter:

"We should invade their countries, kill their leaders, and convert them to Christianity".

Milo Yiannopoulos:

"I can't wait for vigilante squads to start gunning journalists down on sight".

Worthy examples ofcourse, but i was eluding more to masses of 'everyday lefty' spewing aweful online rhetoric like some sick pep rally

 

[melbcityguy]

This is sort of the position Melbourne City have. Just do your thing while everyone else squabbles around you.

That made me spit my soup out.

When I grew up I don't remember anyone talking politics obviously some things were brought up super, indigenous issues and homeless.

But now I need to care what the mailman thinks about trans rights. How about everyone keeps their opinions to themselves

 

[zimbos05]

You were very right to provide such examples. I don't think Dan would deny that exists. I think we need a real balance in schools for children to review and assess sources and come to a fair conclusion. Radical views from either end need to be denounced. The challenge is where to draw the line. I guess we'll still be considering that for years to come.

I work in education. There is nothing in curriculum that specifically aligns with one political side or the other. I definitely present both sides. I can't speak for every teacher. I know of a teacher who goes around advocating for Trump. The problem with education stems from the rhetoric currently going around that it supports the left only. This is not true. What's worse, is that people conflate American talking points with Australia. Their system is broken and nothing like ours.

Worthy examples ofcourse, but i was eluding more to masses of 'everyday lefty' spewing aweful online rhetoric like some sick pep rally

Are you saying every day right win people don't spew hate online?

Come on man, even you know this is farfetched. I admit that there are some extreme leftists, who at times make me go, "oof". I've been on the receiving end of some truly horrific comments and vitriol. Let's not pretend that this is a one sided thing.

 

[Pasquali]

In an interview with NBC News’s Meet the Press on Sunday, Utah Governor Spencer Cox said the arrested suspect, 22-year-old Tyler Robinson, had a “leftist ideology” despite growing up in a conservative family.

“We can confirm that, again, according to family and people that we’re interviewing, he does come from a conservative family. But his ideology was very different than his family, and so that’s part of it,” Cox said.

Cox, a Republican, did not elaborate on Robinson’s suspected motive, but said the suspect had spent time in “dark places” online.

Cox said the information about Robinson’s left-wing views had come from interviews with family members and friends.

“I really don’t have a dog in this fight. If this was MAGA, and a radicalised MAGA person, I would be saying that as well,” Cox said, referring to US President Donald Trump’s Make America Great Again movement.

“That’s not what they’re sharing.”

Cox also confirmed reports that Robinson had a romantic relationship with his transgender roommate, who was transitioning from male to female.

Suspect in Charlie Kirk’s murder has ‘leftist ideology’, Utah governor says

Governor Spencer Cox says the 22-year-old suspect spent time in 'dark places' online.

www.aljazeera.com