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Football us life said:
These small boat crossings across the channel are averaging around 50,000 per year....

Sounds a lot but it's barely 10% of the overall number of economic migrant arrivals in the UK which is running at around +600,000 net annually.
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Fair enough. I stand corrected.
 
Can I say numbers are numbers - what of the accuracy ? then consider illegal numbers ?
Point is just as whats going on in Melb its that small % despite the small official numbers entering that are legit - correct TSF on the whole issue world over.
F us life - it may not be as high recently for the UK but the damage been done not that long ago that is difficult - or lets say will never get on top of imo.
UK Net migration reached a record high of 764,000 in 2022 and was 685,000 in 2023, with a total of 1.2 million migrants entering the UK in 2023.

Italy in '23 had 155k come through so called officially for eg.
It was that period when many EU countries suffered huge numbers coming through.
I feel for those poor people but no country can get a grip or adjust to service these influxs that is understandable.

One trip to EU not long ago walking around Paris actually near the Eiffel tower.
You see heaps of the illegal migrants (africans ?) selling their toursita garb layed out on their blankets - as soon as they are tipped off the cops are coming they pull up the garb in one full swoop like a parachute scarppering for their lives haha
Well set up but why they running ? whatever they are doing is illegal obviously.
 
LFC said:
Can I say numbers are numbers - what of the accuracy ? then consider illegal numbers ?
Point is just as whats going on in Melb its that small % despite the small official numbers entering that are legit - correct TSF on the whole issue world over.
F us life - it may not be as high recently for the UK but the damage been done not that long ago that is difficult - or lets say will never get on top of imo.
UK Net migration reached a record high of 764,000 in 2022 and was 685,000 in 2023, with a total of 1.2 million migrants entering the UK in 2023.

Italy in '23 had 155k come through so called officially for eg.
It was that period when many EU countries suffered huge numbers coming through.
I feel for those poor people but no country can get a grip or adjust to service these influxs that is understandable.

One trip to EU not long ago walking around Paris actually near the Eiffel tower.
You see heaps of the illegal migrants (africans ?) selling their toursita garb layed out on their blankets - as soon as they are tipped off the cops are coming they pull up the garb in one full swoop like a parachute scarppering for their lives haha
Well set up but why they running ? whatever they are doing is illegal obviously.
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I sometimes think the biggest dividing line in world politics right now is arguably no longer right or left but to do with trust.

When it comes to things like economic mass migration as one example, do we trust politicians to act on our best interest? Or not??

I use migration as an example because it seems to be front and centre of every poltical discussion the world over right now.

There are those like me who do broadly trust our politicians, our institutions and our experts, and increasingly others who don’t trust any of these things....

I see this new political dynamic occurring all over the West and it tends to worry me more than anything else right now. Luckily for Australia, the political establishment are reasonably sensible, reasonably in-tune with the electorate and the country hasn't been caught up in the anti-elitist, anti-institutionalist populism merry-go-round yet.

But....?
 
Football us life said:
I sometimes think the biggest dividing line in world politics right now is arguably no longer right or left but to do with trust.
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I like the middle for going too far either side isn't balanced obviously and somethign is always to give sooner not later.
Football us life said:
When it comes to things like economic mass migration as one example, do we trust politicians to act on our best interest? Or not??
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I'd wish/like to trust and be optimistic but even the best of them politically (no that I consider many are today) are driven by what keeps their party IN and are too afraid to go outside/against the party and popular lines.
Football us life said:
I use migration as an example because it seems to be front and centre of every poltical discussion the world over right now.
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Well the bubble is bursting my friend with no end in sight for no one agrees to make a decision and wait for support.
Football us life said:
There are those like me who do broadly trust our politicians, our institutions and our experts, and increasingly others who don’t trust any of these things....
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No I don't have much faith in most of them today world over. World is run by the billionaires/corporates and tech lords and the pollies are as weak as piss for they can't beat those almighty $$ ogarlords.
Football us life said:
I see this new political dynamic occurring all over the West and it tends to worry me more than anything else right now. Luckily for Australia, the political establishment are reasonably sensible, reasonably in-tune with the electorate and the country hasn't been caught up in the anti-elitist, anti-institutionalist populism merry-go-round yet.

But....?
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I'll just answer what I see and go through generally , small business is being trampled over, run out, we have duopoly's amongst many many industries now for sometime.
The place is in a muck in red tape maybe near the worst in the world.
We're lucky we're still far away - damn clean and still relatively safe but no Gov for the last 30/40yrs is hitting many goals compared to those growing heydays hence matured - they are just managing the current status quo avoiding the sink.
Too much going and forth, talk talk talk not much action, the world is at high speed none have a idea how to change or keep up.
People complain complain, there's unrest galore, people are angry - the ol chillout relaxed laconic aussie of the past is just that, the past.

I prob will get some flak on the above but I'm just your avg family hard working mug, not really into politics/green stuff etc just plain and simple the wife is the Boss and knows everything I agree so as I get lucky regularly :)
 
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tsf said:
Look at Victoria.

How unpopular are the labor leaders. Yet they will shit it in again.
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yep the classic example.
Like we know in our football and whatever tbh, without good opposition we the average sheep end up in the poop even more.
Not good all over, its fucked.
 
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tsf said:
Good on Ley for doing it.

But the lunatic right will be writing her obituary
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Australia has moved on from arguments around culture wars, net zero and renewables and yet the LNP just can't move past it.

There's a cohort in the LNP, namely Angus Taylor, just itching to restart them.

They need to turn off Sky News and start fighting for the middle ground.
 
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Football us life said:
Is Australia is on the cusp of becoming a one party state?

The LNP are an absolute nonsense, a complete shambles. And there's not one person there who could realistically be a bona fide leader.
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Democracy without an effective opposition is not ideal. Liberals did it all to themselves, gobbling Murdoch & mining non taxpaying cock and pretending to care about regular people is a feeble trick that everyone has seen through.
 
erogenouszone said:
Democracy without an effective opposition is not ideal. Liberals did it all to themselves, gobbling Murdoch & mining non taxpaying cock and pretending to care about regular people is a feeble trick that everyone has seen through.
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The problem is they will not learn. While the ALP has 94 seats and the Coalition has only 43 that could disappear quickly - but not with the move to the right.

The ALP may be doing some things right - but they are doing a lot wrong as well and the only real opposition calling them to account are the cross bench.

If the coalition moved back towards the voters then the 10 or 11 of lower house independents would find there way back to Liberals which is their natural position either rejoining or supporting.

So if that was the case you would be looking at 83-54. Then there are 16 ALP seats under 5% margins.

I can't see that happening - but the current coalition would have Menzies spinning in his grave. The more likely scenario will be the ALP will loose a few and there will be more crossbenchers.
 
patjennings said:
The problem is they will not learn. While the ALP has 94 seats and the Coalition has only 43 that could disappear quickly - but not with the move to the right.

The ALP may be doing some things right - but they are doing a lot wrong as well and the only real opposition calling them to account are the cross bench.

If the coalition moved back towards the voters then the 10 or 11 of lower house independents would find there way back to Liberals which is their natural position either rejoining or supporting.

So if that was the case you would be looking at 83-54. Then there are 16 ALP seats under 5% margins.

I can't see that happening - but the current coalition would have Menzies spinning in his grave. The more likely scenario will be the ALP will loose a few and there will be more crossbenchers.
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The LNP need to purge the hard right and then, and only then will they have a chance.

The problem is, just like what happened to Turnbull, Ley didn't win the leadership position convincingly. Angus and his mates only need to turn 4 or 5 of them and there'll be a spill.

As such, just like Turnbull, she's stuck making sure she doesn't piss off the hard right and cause her own demise all whilst trying to drag the rest of them towards the centre.
 
I am not even sure that for these ultra right factions they even need or realistically think they will be in power. Just having a seat, or a platform to spew their rubbish on behalf of gina, petrol companies, murdoch or whoever is greasing their wheels is enough
 
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