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"Can you smell the fear?", do the other football codes in Australia (AFL,NRL), genuinely fear football?

BA81 said:
That said, thankfully the risk of ending up as a para/quadriplegic through severe injury in our game is virtually nonexistent compared to theirs.
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I'm not an expert but I would have thought that any injury that could be attributed to either heading the ball or head clashes could be significantly reduced with some sort of lightweight headgear? Ala Petr Cech?

Not sure the same could be said for the type of high-speed whiplash seen in other codes.
 
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TBH - heading a modern ball is nothing and should not be stopped in younger players. As a 10 year old we knew not to try a sodden leather ball back in the day. Modern day balls are lightweight and the best time to teach the technique properly is when they are young.

Football problems don't come from deliberately heading the ball, they come from someone kicking the ball from a metre away and copping it in the head or from head clashes. The poor Victorian boy playing in the AFL apparently had a head clash but then landed on a covered concrete cricket pitch, similar to one of the grounds my son used to play football on.
 
Punchanello said:
I'm not and expert but I would have thought that any injury that could be attributed to either heading the ball or head clashes could be significantly reduced with some sort of lightweight headgear? Ala Petr Cech?

Not sure the same could be said for the type of high-speed whiplash seen in other codes.
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Head wear does nothing to prevent CTE. It's the brain bouncing off the inside of the skull after heavy impacts. NFL players wear the best helmets there are and it does nothing for them.
 
Quicky said:
Head wear does nothing to prevent CTE. It's the brain bouncing off the inside of the skull after heavy impacts. NFL players wear the best helmets there are and it does nothing for them.
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A lot of work being done on sportsmen but I would suggest that anyone growing up during the 50's 60's, 70's or even 80's where playing outside for hours was the norm would have some form of CTE from either league, aussie rules, union or simple other games like British Bulldog (by whatever name it was called in you neck of the woods)
 
The gridiron helmets make me wonder if they're really helping much. They're adding an extra two inches or so to the area for your head to be hit. Add another two inches to your opponents head size as well, you're just going to get hit in the head more. Are constant hits better than fewer? How much damage does the hard plastic save? Worth more than the number of hits?

I would've thought a spongier material would be better at decelerating the Gs on the brain. Like strap a pool noodle to your head or something 😅
 
Patj
Correct
The comparison today of the modern ball is chalk and cheese to the early leather heavy balls.
Those wet days I swear that ball weighed 5+ kilos !
Is there any cases reported of players back in the day suffering CTE ?
I really don’t recall ???

Look how many of us played those days.

I think anything associated with the head today is subject to question but I think this is OTT from a heading perspective.
some person could have underlying issues that when playing sport may trigger these issues
 
The main symptoms of CTE can often all be commonly attributed to 'getting old' depending on the age of the person and can present in what we today would refer to as 'mental health'. This was rarely a spoken thing 'back in the day'.

I have no doubt that for the footballers of yesteryear heading waterlogged leather balls etc the symptoms they were feeling simply never would have been seen to ever having any connection to heading a football. So to say there was no impact can't be based in fact.
 
LFC said:
Patj
Correct
The comparison today of the modern ball is chalk and cheese to the early leather heavy balls.
Those wet days I swear that ball weighed 5+ kilos !
Is there any cases reported of players back in the day suffering CTE ?
I really don’t recall ???

Look how many of us played those days.

I think anything associated with the head today is subject to question but I think this is OTT from a heading perspective.
some person could have underlying issues that when playing sport may trigger these issues
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So how do you explain the large amount of CTE and dementia suffered by British footballers who played in the 60s and 70s?
Almost the entire England world cup team of 1966 (all dead now except Geoff Hurst) had these problems.

Jeff Astle would head the ball hundreds of times in training as well as in a match. The coroner attributed his death to heading footballs.
 
Oh that so……can I explain ? Nope.
I didn’t research anything and tbh can’t recall news on that or otherwise as mentioned.
Shoot me ffs politely.
Not surprising all dead might I add being in their 20’s etc mid 60’s.
Again overall i hardly recall been in football news barring the recent years.
 
Punchanello said:
I'm not an expert but I would have thought that any injury that could be attributed to either heading the ball or head clashes could be significantly reduced with some sort of lightweight headgear? Ala Petr Cech?

Not sure the same could be said for the type of high-speed whiplash seen in other codes.
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It's quite a long read but it emphasises that head protection equipment cannot replace the need for improved safety, proper technique, and strict enforcement of rules regarding aerial challenges...

 
LFC said:
Patj
Correct
The comparison today of the modern ball is chalk and cheese to the early leather heavy balls.
Those wet days I swear that ball weighed 5+ kilos !
Is there any cases reported of players back in the day suffering CTE ?
I really don’t recall ???

Look how many of us played those days.

I think anything associated with the head today is subject to question but I think this is OTT from a heading perspective.
some person could have underlying issues that when playing sport may trigger these issues
Click to expand...
The differences between the old and modern balls is not enough to conclude CTE will not be a problem with modern balls. It's known that repeated head impacts are a big factor and you can get a lot of that over a lifetime playing and heading the ball.

The truth is they still don't fully understand the risks so they are taking a precautionary approach which is sensible. Particularly with kids. It's hard to determine CTE because it can only be diagnosed after death with an autopsy and other head knocks over your life time will contribute.
 
Quicky said:
The differences between the old and modern balls is not enough to conclude CTE will not be a problem with modern balls. It's known that repeated head impacts are a big factor and you can get a lot of that over a lifetime playing and heading the ball.

The truth is they still don't fully understand the risks so they are taking a precautionary approach which is sensible. Particularly with kids. It's hard to determine CTE because it can only be diagnosed after death with an autopsy and other head knocks over your life time will contribute.
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You explained the outlook perfectly.
Last paragraph bang on.

Now I’d ask any of you with young budding passionate good playing football kids.
Say you end having a kid that has got to rep and moving up the ranks.

Are you gonna hold them back re heading ?
Would you from his YL days ?
Mine have contacted with thousands of headers.
I suppose only time will tell.
 
Quicky said:
The differences between the old and modern balls is not enough to conclude CTE will not be a problem with modern balls. It's known that repeated head impacts are a big factor and you can get a lot of that over a lifetime playing and heading the ball.

The truth is they still don't fully understand the risks so they are taking a precautionary approach which is sensible. Particularly with kids. It's hard to determine CTE because it can only be diagnosed after death with an autopsy and other head knocks over your life time will contribute.
Click to expand...

When you consider the weight then the likelihood is much greater. But our main problems with the modern ball is getting with it hit rather heading the ball. Players in the wall not watching the ball properly and getting hit unprepared, being hit by a ball from one or two meters and of course the head clashes that often occur in football.

TBH - I think if you looked at anyone that grew up playing sport in the 60's, 70's and early 80's that most have had enough plenty of head knocks even for a young age whether they are heading the ball or not to have some sort of problems - but the research is purely on elite sportsmen. Basically post mortems are not normally done with standard deaths but I expect the prevalence is much greater than known and maybe even less pronounced in elite sportsmen because precautions are being taken.
 
patjennings said:
When you consider the weight then the likelihood is much greater. But our main problems with the modern ball is getting with it hit rather heading the ball. Players in the wall not watching the ball properly and getting hit unprepared, being hit by a ball from one or two meters and of course the head clashes that often occur in football.

TBH - I think if you looked at anyone that grew up playing sport in the 60's, 70's and early 80's that most have had enough plenty of head knocks even for a young age whether they are heading the ball or not to have some sort of problems - but the research is purely on elite sportsmen. Basically post mortems are not normally done with standard deaths but I expect the prevalence is much greater than known and maybe even less pronounced in elite sportsmen because precautions are being taken.
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One wonders if doctors inspected the late Johnny Warren's brain after his death in 2004 as he was a very proficient header of the ball. He said in his famous book that his first ever goal came from a header.
 
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