Australian Dual Nationals 🇦🇺🏳️

[Cunningstunt]

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I think it’s safe to assume we don’t


The FA of my heritage-country El Salvador has recently started conducting triallist-camps for NT-eligible youth players in the US; mainly from the local diaspora but also from elsewhere. And given that historically the Salvadorean FA’s maladministration has almost put even ours to shame, this is a significant step-up for them in terms of initiative.

Hence the begging question: why isn’t the FFA doing something similar, let alone hasn’t done so in the past? In a parallel-universe we could’ve identified if not locked-in Boyle, Cummings and Souttar years before we eventually did - think of all the -eligible kids throughout and the wider that we’ve and continue to miss out on, never mind those on the continental mainland, because of all this..

I don't enjoy being the kill joy all the time. But the primary reason is always money. It's far easier to have vision and foresight if you can pay for it.

 

[HonestSpursFan]

I don't enjoy being the kill joy all the time. But the primary reason is always money. It's far easier to have vision and foresight if you can pay for it.

El Salvador doesn’t have much money though.

 

[riquelmes_laces]

I don't enjoy being the kill joy all the time. But the primary reason is always money. It's far easier to have vision and foresight if you can pay for it.

I think that's true to a degree but there are plenty of federations with similar levels of revenue that are able to organise themselves better. The question is really how efficient is the FA with its money.

 

[Somebloke]

I think it's a bit more nuanced than simply capping players earlier or clubs pressuring them not to play for Australia.

Clubs can certainly influence players, particularly younger ones who are still establishing themselves, but I don't think that fully explains what's happening. If it did, then why wasn't it a major issue for the Kewell/Viduka generation when Soccer Australia was a mess administratively?

Likewise, if the issue was simply the travel from Europe, we'd expect Japanese and South Korean players to face exactly the same resistance. They regularly fly similar distances for international windows, yet we rarely hear the same narrative. That suggests distance alone isn't the deciding factor.

Agree that there is a bunch of nuance here, although I wonder if the issue with many Japanese and South Korean players is that few in comparison to Oz have dual citizenships. So they can’t really argue for them to turn out for Italy or whoever rather than Japan/Korea.

I also wonder at the role that agents play. An international cap can increase a players value and we have seen how some of these international tugs of wars have sometimes been agent manufactured.ie Was China ever realistically looking at Teague?

 

[HonestSpursFan]

This. Heck, even capping 3-4 of them at once vs. Pakistan/Brunei/East Timor etc. in an Asian/World Cup-qualifier would be more prudent than our usual approach to these situations.

That Mahdi Nicoll-Jazuli kid at Chelsea’s youth-setup has to be a top priority, IMHO

Yeah we need to get in on it. Even if it’s just for the youth teams.

 

[riquelmes_laces]

Agree that there is a bunch of nuance here, although I wonder if the issue with many Japanese and South Korean players is that few in comparison to Oz have dual citizenships. So they can’t really argue for them to turn out for Italy or whoever rather than Japan/Korea.

I also wonder at the role that agents play. An international cap can increase a players value and we have seen how some of these international tugs of wars have sometimes been agent manufactured.ie Was China ever realistically looking at Teague?

Yeah I agree that there are far fewer dual nationals in those countries, I was more referring to the narrative of travel. Players from those countries seem to be (can't say I know first hand) less scruitised than Aussies when it comes to international travel.

 

[Somebloke]

From memory Craig Moore in the past was based in Europe doing this kind of work for the FA. And I remember at least one camp about ten years ago which called in a bunch of dual internationals such as Brad Inman.

 

[Cunningstunt]

El Salvador doesn’t have much money though.

I can't comment on that. But we know the FA ran a $15 million loss last year. Based on something like $120 million revenue. They aren't going to be putting on regular camps for kids, they aren't paying someone to do this as a job. It is a narrow focus with prioritising the major competitions.

I think that's true to a degree but there are plenty of federations with similar levels of revenue that are able to organise themselves better. The question is really how efficient is the FA with its money.

If the solution is to 'just do it better' or more efficiently etc it will almost always fail. No version of our FA has ever done this. A lot of the things we talk about require the game to grow, occupy a bigger place in Australian culture, and carry much more financial weight. The FA doesn't have much competence, but if we can see the benefit, it means it's something that wouldn't take much competence. The limiting factor is financial.

 

[Somebloke]

I can't comment on that. But we know the FA ran a $15 million loss last year. Based on something like $120 million revenue. They aren't going to be putting on regular camps for kids, they aren't paying someone to do this as a job. It is a narrow focus with prioritising the major competitions.


If the solution is to 'just do it better' or more efficiently etc it will almost always fail. No version of our FA has ever done this. A lot of the things we talk about require the game to grow, occupy a bigger place in Australian culture, and carry much more financial weight. The FA doesn't have much competence, but if we can see the benefit, it means it's something that wouldn't take much competence. The limiting factor is financial.

Your right. El Salvador is probably happy doing this kind of stuff affordably. Whereas the kind of Aussie corporate culture that is prevalent at FA, which bang on about ‘elite standards’ would make such an endeavour way too expensive. A kind of Baumol effect.

 

[Cunningstunt]

Your right. El Salvador is probably happy doing this kind of stuff affordably. Whereas the kind of Aussie corporate culture that is prevalent at FA, which bang on about ‘elite standards’ would make such an endeavour way too expensive. A kind of Baumol effect.

Maybe BA knows more detail about what/how they are doing it. But if we are looking internally, it is hard to expect new programs/ideas that cost when they are hemorrhaging dollars.

Even the WC, making it out of the groups stage means the FA might break even on the whole thing. There are probably corporate opportunities from this where they will claw more back. But it isn't a money spinner. The bigger goal of growing the game to the point where WC prize money is a small aspect of revenue needs to be the aim. Then they can fund all this stuff.

Sorry to derail. I like the ideas. I would love to see them being done.

 

[BA81]

El Salvador doesn’t have much money though.

Relatively-speaking no, but it’s definitely increasing

 

[BA81]

Maybe BA knows more detail about what/how they are doing it. But if we are looking internally, it is hard to expect new programs/ideas that cost when they are hemorrhaging dollars.

Foremostly it’s President Bukele’s administration in El Salvador that’s seemingly done a Frank Lowy c. 2003 of-sorts in getting FIFA to be okay w/what is essentially gov’t-interference in ️(for context the president’s brother is now head of the national FA, though he had to step down from his posts at the nation’s equivalent of the ASC/AIS and federation in order to take the job); no doubt like Lowy did in getting us to join the AFC, Bukele’s surely been pressing flesh w/CONCACAF bigwigs in order to sell them on to what a revitalised Salvadorean NT(which once upon a time was the confed’s next powerhouse behind Mexico, back when the US were also-rans) would mean for the confederation’s overall playing-standard.

Of course the key-driver aside from this is the mere fact ️ is the national religion alongside Catholicism there, no different whatsoever in that sense from the majority of the continent, so there is that institutional-will in place to see this through to a satisfactory end…whereas here we have to make do w/bandwagoning pollies giving to the already-loaded AFL and to an NRL expansion-side from Papua New Guinea

 

[BA81]

Your right. El Salvador is probably happy doing this kind of stuff affordably. Whereas the kind of Aussie corporate culture that is prevalent at FA, which bang on about ‘elite standards’ would make such an endeavour way too expensive. A kind of Baumol effect.

Of course the geographic-proximity between El Salvador and the US is a vital factor, not to mention the fact you don’t need to traverse a body of water to get from one to the other in that case whereas we have to.

 

[Barca4life]

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I think it’s safe to assume we don’t


The FA of my heritage-country El Salvador has recently started conducting triallist-camps for NT-eligible youth players in the US; mainly from the local diaspora but also from elsewhere. And given that historically the Salvadorean FA’s maladministration has almost put even ours to shame, this is a significant step-up for them in terms of initiative.

Hence the begging question: why isn’t the FFA doing something similar, let alone hasn’t done so in the past? In a parallel-universe we could’ve identified if not locked-in Boyle, Cummings and Souttar years before we eventually did - think of all the -eligible kids throughout and the wider that we’ve and continue to miss out on, never mind those on the continental mainland, because of all this..

It’s simple they probably don’t have the cash or infrastructure to make it work, instead we get we are not selling the shirt matra to appease mainstream viewers…

 

[BA81]

Your right. El Salvador is probably happy doing this kind of stuff affordably.

And despite the factors I’ve mentioned that make this easier for El Salvador to do than it would Australia, it is indeed relatively-informal: basically just a series of tryout-camps across the US overseen by ‘90s Salvadorean-NT&LA Galaxy player Mauricio Cienfuegos and the Salvadorean-born former USMNT player Hugo Perez.

Frankly there’s no force on Earth that’d convince me it’s impossible for us to do much the same in the UK and mainland Europe on the relative-cheap; there’s certainly no shortage of ex-Socceroos who’d jump at the chance to be involved in that, even if their focus’d probably be more on their own career-advancement than accomplishing their brief.

 

[grazorblade]

I don't enjoy being the kill joy all the time. But the primary reason is always money. It's far easier to have vision and foresight if you can pay for it.

Fa need to start making use of volunteers for some jobs

 

[Toebash]

He scored in Serie A. But fuck no, the Championship is better than Serie B let alone Serie C.

Unless I’m missing something, he hasn’t scored in the Serie A. His only goal for Roma came in the Coppa Italia.

 

[BA81]

Fa need to start making use of volunteers for some jobs

Wasn’t Adam Howard from SokkahTwitter involved in that capacity(if so, dunno if he still is)?

As a segue, a Salvadorean fan Hugo Alvarado began scouting for NT-eligible players in his spare time 15+ years ago and unearthed quite a few that went on to be of use; their national-FA eventually hired him

 

[BA81]

From memory Craig Moore in the past was based in Europe doing this kind of work for the FA.

First I hear of it. So what happened - scrapped as a BS ‘cost-cutting' exercise..?

And I remember at least one camp about ten years ago which called in a bunch of dual internationals such as Brad Inman.

There’s a blast from the past; he always ended up amounting to a decent-enough career in my Football Manager 2011 savegames once I’d locked him in for Australia(mind you, in those Leigh Broxham and Rhyan Grant almost always ended up playing in Liga MX..so it’s all relative)

 

[Monoethnic Social Club]

First I hear of it. So what happened - scrapped as a BS ‘cost-cutting' exercise..?

There’s a blast from the past; he always ended up amounting to a decent-enough career in my Football Manager 2011 savegames once I’d locked him in for Australia(mind you, in those Leigh Broxham and Rhyan Grant almost always ended up playing in Liga MX..so it’s all relative)

Bentleigh Greens sort of reminds me of Mexico I suppose... lol