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Poppa Out

BA81 said:
Could you type out the rough prompt for it, so I can just ask about any coach?
Click to expand...
This what I used: What is Kevin Muscats current and historical preferred football formation.

That isn't the best prompt btw. It's good to specify Context, Role, Action, Format, and Target audience. You can actually ask AI to improve your prompts if you like.

You can include parameters like: only draw from reputable sources like x,y,z and provide references to support statements made. Keep to less than x,yz words. Make succinct/detailed. Use plain/technical language etc.

In my experience AI is tool that does some things well and other stuff really badly. But this is pretty harmless.
 
BA81 said:
Even as a Vuck, it’s a fuck-no from me.

We need a well-credentialed foreign coach who understands the assignment; may the FFA admin circa 9 years ago forever rot for having turned down Bielsa for the ‘Roos job👎🏼
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Have a look at bielsas wage for uruguay. I dont think we can afford that
 
LFC said:
The vision of wanting another local astounds me.
Click to expand...
You and me both. It’s of definite convenience to the suits in charge though, having a local coach who’ll invariably be a yes-man and not rock the boat much if at all. What they don’t want is an uppity-minded(no matter how well-credentialed) foreigner at the ‘Roos helm, lest it end up playing out like Kurz at Victory telling them their sh1t stank to high-heaven.
 
BA81 said:
You and me both. It’s of definite convenience to the suits in charge though, having a local coach who’ll invariably be a yes-man and not rock the boat much if at all. What they don’t want is an uppity-minded(no matter how well-credentialed) foreigner at the ‘Roos helm, lest it end up playing out like Kurz at Victory telling them their sh1t stank to high-heaven.
Click to expand...
The only long term foreigners in our price range were pim verbeek and osiek. I personally think our local coavhes were better?
 
Ah so that’s the reason doing the same same again eh.
That’s really optimistic.
Poppaball to Mugball Musky.
lol how promising.
Ok as you mentioned elsewhere.
Let’s spend the $ on the stifled system, well sure I would regardless but the suits are pathetic that isn’t going to go well.
So get a decent coach - that will entice attacking game and balance defensively.
Muscat ffs another flog.
 
The trouble with a foreign coach is they just don't understand the culture or get the style we play. On top it's often some hack we hire on a budget who has little idea about the Australian ecosystem and the arduous task of Asia.

While an outside perspective would be welcome, it's got to be done very well to avoid ruining the national team. Some would say Popovic has already done that.
 
LFC said:
Ah so that’s the reason doing the same same again eh.
That’s really optimistic.
Poppaball to Mugball Musky.
lol how promising.
Ok as you mentioned elsewhere.
Let’s spend the $ on the stifled system, well sure I would regardless but the suits are pathetic that isn’t going to go well.
So get a decent coach - that will entice attacking game and balance defensively.
Muscat ffs another flog.
Click to expand...
I guess the question is can we get 10million aud a year to afford a decent foreign coach rather than a holger or a pim

Its not really clear from their budget what the fa spend 140mil revenue on

I think 25million travel
2 million grassroots
20mill dodgy a league deals
A few mil in exec salaried
Then maybe 90million on email factories?
 
patjennings said:
Muscat tends to rely on older experienced players. Maybe not a great fit for all the up and comers.
Click to expand...
I asked AI

What is the age profile of Kevin Muscat coached teams? What is his record bringing in and playing players under 23 years old.

-------

Kevin Muscat’s reputation as a coach is interesting because it doesn’t fit the stereotype people often attach to him. He’s generally seen as a win-now, high-intensity coach, but his teams have usually sat in the mid-20s for average age rather than being old veteran sides. He has also repeatedly trusted U23 players when they fit the game model rather than selecting on age alone.

Overall age profile: younger than his reputation suggests

Across his senior coaching career, Muscat’s teams have generally been:
  • Young-to-prime age squads (roughly 24–27 average age)
  • Built around a core of experienced leaders
  • With young attacking players and fullbacks getting minutes
  • Less focused on academy quotas and more on merit + tactical suitability

His Melbourne Victory sides produced some of the youngest starting XIs in club history. Transfermarkt records Muscat-managed Victory line-ups with average ages as low as 22.8, and several other seasons in the 23–25 range.

Club by club: how he uses U23 players

Melbourne Victory FC (2013–2019)

This is where the strongest youth evidence sits.

Muscat inherited and then built squads that mixed experienced players with young Australians.

Notable U23 players he introduced or heavily trusted:
  • Daniel Arzani — breakout season under Muscat before moving overseas.
  • Marco Rojas (young key contributor early in his development arc).
  • Luca Teodoro (pathway minutes).
  • Sebastian Pasquali
  • Thomas Deng
  • Nishan Velupillay (debuted late in Muscat’s tenure).


Pattern:
  • Young players got opportunities if they could execute pressing and positional responsibilities.
  • Muscat often accelerated players into meaningful minutes rather than only using substitute cameos.

Yokohama F. Marinos (2021–2023)

This period reinforced the same trend.

Muscat inherited a strong development environment from Ange Postecoglou and continued using younger technical players.

Examples:
  • Riku Yamane
  • Kota Mizunuma remained important while younger players rotated in.
  • Younger attackers and fullbacks featured regularly in a very high-tempo system.

The key difference from Melbourne: youth integration happened inside a title-winning side, not a rebuild. Muscat won the J1 League while maintaining an aggressive, attack-first identity.

Shanghai Port F.C. (2024–present)

Shanghai Port has leaned older and more established because of squad construction rather than Muscat’s philosophy.

His approach there has looked more like:
  • experienced spine,
  • selective youth minutes,
  • maintaining technical standards.
Muscat has continued prioritising performance over age while delivering trophies.

So what’s his actual record with U23s?

If I had to summarise Muscat’s profile:

TraitRating

  • Will debut teenagersModerate
  • Gives U23 regular startsStrong
  • Builds entire squad around youthLow–Moderate
  • Develops players into saleable assetsStrong
  • Trusts youth in big matchesStrong
  • Uses age as selection criterionVery low


Short version:

Muscat is not a youth ideologue in the mould of a pure academy coach. But he has repeatedly shown he will play 18–22 year olds in meaningful minutes if they can press, run, and execute structure. His Melbourne Victory years especially produced evidence that his teams were often younger and more developmental than his reputation suggests.
 
LFC said:
Ah so that’s the reason doing the same same again eh.
That’s really optimistic.
Poppaball to Mugball Musky.
lol how promising.
Ok as you mentioned elsewhere.
Let’s spend the $ on the stifled system, well sure I would regardless but the suits are pathetic that isn’t going to go well.
So get a decent coach - that will entice attacking game and balance defensively.
Muscat ffs another flog.
Click to expand...
Whats mugball?
 
JS96 said:
The trouble with a foreign coach is they just don't understand the culture or get the style we play. On top it's often some hack we hire on a budget who has little idea about the Australian ecosystem and the arduous task of Asia.

While an outside perspective would be welcome, it's got to be done very well to avoid ruining the national team. Some would say Popovic has already done that.
Click to expand...
There may be a decent fit around. There are a few slavic coaches with Asian experience that probably come from football cultures with similar styles.

I think an Aussie is likely to be better. Especially Muscat who ticks all the boxes in terms of style, defence/offence balance, gets the culture, Asian experience, success, does play young guys on merit.
 
Quicky said:
I asked AI

What is the age profile of Kevin Muscat coached teams? What is his record bringing in and playing players under 23 years old.

-------

Kevin Muscat’s reputation as a coach is interesting because it doesn’t fit the stereotype people often attach to him. He’s generally seen as a win-now, high-intensity coach, but his teams have usually sat in the mid-20s for average age rather than being old veteran sides. He has also repeatedly trusted U23 players when they fit the game model rather than selecting on age alone.

Overall age profile: younger than his reputation suggests

Across his senior coaching career, Muscat’s teams have generally been:
  • Young-to-prime age squads (roughly 24–27 average age)
  • Built around a core of experienced leaders
  • With young attacking players and fullbacks getting minutes
  • Less focused on academy quotas and more on merit + tactical suitability

His Melbourne Victory sides produced some of the youngest starting XIs in club history. Transfermarkt records Muscat-managed Victory line-ups with average ages as low as 22.8, and several other seasons in the 23–25 range.

Club by club: how he uses U23 players

Melbourne Victory FC (2013–2019)

This is where the strongest youth evidence sits.

Muscat inherited and then built squads that mixed experienced players with young Australians.

Notable U23 players he introduced or heavily trusted:
  • Daniel Arzani — breakout season under Muscat before moving overseas.
  • Marco Rojas (young key contributor early in his development arc).
  • Luca Teodoro (pathway minutes).
  • Sebastian Pasquali
  • Thomas Deng
  • Nishan Velupillay (debuted late in Muscat’s tenure).


Pattern:
  • Young players got opportunities if they could execute pressing and positional responsibilities.
  • Muscat often accelerated players into meaningful minutes rather than only using substitute cameos.

Yokohama F. Marinos (2021–2023)

This period reinforced the same trend.

Muscat inherited a strong development environment from Ange Postecoglou and continued using younger technical players.

Examples:
  • Riku Yamane
  • Kota Mizunuma remained important while younger players rotated in.
  • Younger attackers and fullbacks featured regularly in a very high-tempo system.

The key difference from Melbourne: youth integration happened inside a title-winning side, not a rebuild. Muscat won the J1 League while maintaining an aggressive, attack-first identity.

Shanghai Port F.C. (2024–present)

Shanghai Port has leaned older and more established because of squad construction rather than Muscat’s philosophy.

His approach there has looked more like:
  • experienced spine,
  • selective youth minutes,
  • maintaining technical standards.
Muscat has continued prioritising performance over age while delivering trophies.

So what’s his actual record with U23s?

If I had to summarise Muscat’s profile:

TraitRating

  • Will debut teenagersModerate
  • Gives U23 regular startsStrong
  • Builds entire squad around youthLow–Moderate
  • Develops players into saleable assetsStrong
  • Trusts youth in big matchesStrong
  • Uses age as selection criterionVery low


Short version:

Muscat is not a youth ideologue in the mould of a pure academy coach. But he has repeatedly shown he will play 18–22 year olds in meaningful minutes if they can press, run, and execute structure. His Melbourne Victory years especially produced evidence that his teams were often younger and more developmental than his reputation suggests.
Click to expand...
Thanks - that surprised me - i had heard critiques of his overseas tenures that went the other way.
 
grazorblade said:
The only long-term foreigners in our price range were Pim Verbeek and Osieck.
Click to expand...
Do you know that for certain, bc it’s a big claim…

For the record, I was a fan of neither. Instead of Pim we should’ve gone w/Leo Beenhakker, Arie Haan or Jo Bonfrere if we absolutely had to persist w/the whole 🇳🇱 kick we were on at the time.
 
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