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A-League Men's 25/26 - Grand Final

Who wins?

  • Total voters
    20
  • Poll closed .
Football us life said:
Exactly....

As much as we'd love to see differently the A-League sits as a second tier sporting competition in Australia and having a fairly decent average attendance in that respect is not as bad as some people make out!

When you compare it to the absolute giants of the Australian sporting landscape—the AFL and NRL—the A-League Men is fighting a completely different battle for eyeballs and corporate dollars. Looking at it through that lens, pulling in respectable, loyal crowds week-in and week-out is a testament to the core football community in this country, rather than a failure to match the metrics of century-old, deeply entrenched rival codes.

And of course everyone wants to see better attendance figures and a better financial situation for the A-League but that doesn't mean that everyone who is part of the game’s discourse needs to be continually guessing how many people are going to turn up every single time a game is played.

There is a massive difference between having realistic, constructive conversations about growth and falling into the exhausting trap of "crowd-watching" as a full-time hobby.

This obsession with predicting and then immediately dissecting attendance figures after every single weekend can feel incredibly draining. It often derails what should be the actual focus: the quality of the football, the stories on the pitch, and the genuine passion of the fans who did show up.

Constant doom-mongering and guessing games don't magically put bums on seats; they just create a negative feedback loop around the league's public perception.
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A deeply sane post.

However...

The problem, as I see it, is that there appears to be no conversation at all about strategies for growth at admin level with the APL. If there is a conversation, it is well hidden. The appearance is of a complete vacuum.

I also differ in my perception of what a "respectable" crowd is - a purely subjective measure, of course, but I don't see the current attendances, outside of the finals, as "respectable". I agree with SB - we need to get that average over 10k.

Of more concern – given that this is the financial bedrock of the competition's finances – is the lost TV viewers - and here attendances do very much count, because the images of empty stadiums kill the game on television. TV is, self evidently, all about the image, and the images from Roar and Wanderer's home games, for example, are deeply negative for the viewer. The game day attendance/tv audience feedback loop should not be underestimated.

I am mystified that the clubs and the APL appear to have no vision and no plan for the competition to not only grow, but to recover the very considerable number of lost supporters that have deserted the competition over the past decade.
 
I'm less stressed about crowd figures than I used to be, so long as we have a decent player production pipeline. As I understand it, gate takings isn't really that big a part of club income; when Adelaide sold Irankunda for AUD5.5M as was reported, that's roughly equivalent to gate takings for an entire season.
 
Toebash said:
I'm less stressed about crowd figures than I used to be, so long as we have a decent player production pipeline. As I understand it, gate takings isn't really that big a part of club income; when Adelaide sold Irankunda for AUD5.5M as was reported, that's roughly equivalent to gate takings for an entire season.
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You'll quite often see me compare the A-League to Ligue 2 in France.

Why?

Both the A-League and Ligue 2 share a similar grassroots, community-driven football culture — one rooted in local pride, passionate (if not always massive) supporter bases, and a genuine connection between clubs and their towns/cities, rather than the superstar glamour of top-flight leagues....

While Ligue 2 is a more established, slightly higher-standard professional league with better talent pathways and European context, the two competitions have very similar average attendance figures of around 8,500ish and similar stadium infrastructure. TV rights deals are similar in terms of values per club and while I don't have any examples of sponsorship figures I'd assume they'll be quite similar too.

But Ligue 2 offers an excellent model for the A-League to emulate in player development. France’s second tier has built a reputation as one of Europe’s most effective talent factories, producing high-quality players who progress to top leagues while generating significant transfer income for clubs. The A-League could benefit enormously by adopting similar principles.....

So as you've quite rightly mentioned it's not always about having big attendances in order to drive revenues.

Development of players to sell to bigger wealthier leagues is something only football can really do in Australia. Other codes don't have that same well developed luquid-transfer market to sell into.

This creates a genuine revenue stream and long-term business model that the domestic-only codes simply don’t have.

And this is soccer’s unique “export advantage” in the Australian sporting landscape which if they got it right could could genuinely transform the A-League into a self-sustaining talent factory — one that punches well above its weight on the global stage, much like Ligue 2 has done for French football....
 
Toebash said:
I'm less stressed about crowd figures than I used to be, so long as we have a decent player production pipeline. As I understand it, gate takings isn't really that big a part of club income; when Adelaide sold Irankunda for AUD5.5M as was reported, that's roughly equivalent to gate takings for an entire season.
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The clubs only revenue is from gate keeping or the selling of players, every club except a few are running at a loss because of low crowds. Do you really think stadium rent is cheap? The money from TV/Paramount only goes to players payment the clubs don't get a cent. So your wrong, dead wrong. Fact is clubs need around 10k of crowds to break even each week, Finals dont count as the APL Keep all the gate money and the clubs get fk all.
 
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Football us life said:
You'll quite often see me compare the A-League to Ligue 2 in France.

Why?

Both the A-League and Ligue 2 share a similar grassroots, community-driven football culture — one rooted in local pride, passionate (if not always massive) supporter bases, and a genuine connection between clubs and their towns/cities, rather than the superstar glamour of top-flight leagues....

While Ligue 2 is a more established, slightly higher-standard professional league with better talent pathways and European context, the two competitions have very similar average attendance figures of around 8,500ish and similar stadium infrastructure. TV rights deals are similar in terms of values per club and while I don't have any examples of sponsorship figures I'd assume they'll be quite similar too.

But Ligue 2 offers an excellent model for the A-League to emulate in player development. France’s second tier has built a reputation as one of Europe’s most effective talent factories, producing high-quality players who progress to top leagues while generating significant transfer income for clubs. The A-League could benefit enormously by adopting similar principles.....

So as you've quite rightly mentioned it's not always about having big attendances in order to drive revenues.

Development of players to sell to bigger wealthier leagues is something only football can really do in Australia. Other codes don't have that same well developed luquid-transfer market to sell into.

This creates a genuine revenue stream and long-term business model that the domestic-only codes simply don’t have.

And this is soccer’s unique “export advantage” in the Australian sporting landscape which if they got it right could could genuinely transform the A-League into a self-sustaining talent factory — one that punches well above its weight on the global stage, much like Ligue 2 has done for French football....
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I suggest that you should not make assumptions about sponsorship. Football is the primary code in France.

I also suggest that to align Ligue 2 with the A League on the basis of "grassroots" connections is a strange suggestion given the oft discussed limitations of A League franchise model in precisely that regard.

And there is a vast difference in access to player pathways. Ligue 2 clubs have an elevator direct to the top floor. Our clubs, by comparison, have to use a postal service that may or may not deliver the parcel.

Has anyone at any point suggested the imperative of 'big :attendances' to drive revenues? TV audiences are the primary driver of revenues in football here and elsewhere.

An interesting comparison, but of limited relevance to our isolated football dystopia.
 
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Frankly Speaking said:
I suggest that you should not make assumptions about sponsorship. Football is the primary code in France.

I also suggest that to align Ligue 2 with the A League on the basis of "grassroots" connections is a strange suggestion given the oft discussed limitations of A League franchise model in precisely that regard.

And there is a vast difference in access to player pathways. Ligue 2 clubs have an elevator direct to the top floor. Our clubs, by comparison, have to use a postal service that may or may not deliver the parcel.

Has anyone at any point suggested the imperative of 'big :attendances' to drive revenues? TV audiences are the primary driver of revenues in football here and elsewhere.

An interesting comparison, but of limited relevance to our isolated football dystopia.
Click to expand...

Fair points Frank...

Good luck with it all!
 
Frankly Speaking said:
A deeply sane post.

However...

The problem, as I see it, is that there appears to be no conversation at all about strategies for growth at admin level with the APL. If there is a conversation, it is well hidden. The appearance is of a complete vacuum.

I also differ in my perception of what a "respectable" crowd is - a purely subjective measure, of course, but I don't see the current attendances, outside of the finals, as "respectable". I agree with SB - we need to get that average over 10k.

Of more concern – given that this is the financial bedrock of the competition's finances – is the lost TV viewers - and here attendances do very much count, because the images of empty stadiums kill the game on television. TV is, self evidently, all about the image, and the images from Roar and Wanderer's home games, for example, are deeply negative for the viewer. The game day attendance/tv audience feedback loop should not be underestimated.

I am mystified that the clubs and the APL appear to have no vision and no plan for the competition to not only grow, but to recover the very considerable number of lost supporters that have deserted the competition over the past decade.
Click to expand...
Your last sentence is up to the clubs themselves, nothing to do with the APL.
 
Sutherlandbear said:
Your last sentence is up to the clubs themselves, nothing to do with the APL.
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I have never come across a Franchise system (I deal with many) that the Franchisor (when their product needs more support) leaves it all up to their Franchisee.......a decent operation does not wish to lose their footprint - it has alot to do with them.
Its in their best interests to work with their customer/Clubs 110% not just leave them to their own device's.
Yep the Franchisee/Club needs to put in their hardwork at the sametime their HQ holds their hand.
 
LFC said:
I have never come across a Franchise system (I deal with many) that the Franchisor (when their product needs more support) leaves it all up to their Franchisee.......a decent operation does not wish to lose their footprint - it has alot to do with them.
Its in their best interests to work with their customer/Clubs 110% not just leave them to their own device's.
Yep the Franchisee/Club needs to put in their hardwork at the sametime their HQ holds their hand.
Click to expand...
It is still league football, franchise or not, it is the same. How many football leagues around the world have to do the promotions or enticing fans to go and watch? If your answer is very few if any, then you are right.
 
Sutherlandbear said:
It is still league football, franchise or not, it is the same. How many football leagues around the world have to do the promotions or enticing fans to go and watch? If your answer is very few if any, then you are right.
Click to expand...
sorry mate it ain't that plain and simple hence the issues/set backs.

I know I am right :)
How many leagues around the world are Franchise ? cut the chase feck all.
Not the same - it is still league football ?, same is, still league football P/R.
How many leagues around the world like ours are ranked say 4/5 down the pecking order of opposing codes - put aside 3rd world countries.
How many leagues play in grounds 2/3 times bigger they can sustain ? cost wise ?
Its League football not as many know it and X % (good % imo) see it as such otherwise we wouldn't be having this convo but about league games and not fapping over crowd Finals increase's.
Countless League bodies promote their League, pre season/next season commencing/in season/media.
The fixation of go and watch here is "reaching" - it could be so much more, this is my pov whereas I know yours that isn't to the levels and runnings I aspire for having bottom clubs punished, growing ambitious clubs rewarded.
Your into the closed league because pre AL it was the messy ethnic comp that didn't agree with you in the end has similar failings currently incl Division go figure.
Above all all is good Sutho - enjoy your GF all the best.
 
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Sutherlandbear said:
It is still league football, franchise or not, it is the same. How many football leagues around the world have to do the promotions or enticing fans to go and watch? If your answer is very few if any, then you are right.
Click to expand...
Well, I can't comment because I don't know and I'm not sure how you can know either, on a global level.

I'm with LFC on this one. There is a responsibility for the owner of the franchise to promote the service or product, and every market is different. Ours has, as we all know, unique problems.
 
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Frankly Speaking said:
Well, I can't comment because I don't know and I'm not sure how you can know either, on a global level.

I'm with LFC on this one. There is a responsibility for the owner of the franchise to promote the service or product, and every market is different. Ours has, as we all know, unique problems.
Click to expand...
That was my point, the club is the owner, the APL are no different to the SPFL, EFL or any other league.
 
LFC said:
sorry mate it ain't that plain and simple hence the issues/set backs.

I know I am right :)
How many leagues around the world are Franchise ? cut the chase feck all.
Not the same - it is still league football ?, same is, still league football P/R.
How many leagues around the world like ours are ranked say 4/5 down the pecking order of opposing codes - put aside 3rd world countries.
How many leagues play in grounds 2/3 times bigger they can sustain ? cost wise ?
Its League football not as many know it and X % (good % imo) see it as such otherwise we wouldn't be having this convo but about league games and not fapping over crowd Finals increase's.
Countless League bodies promote their League, pre season/next season commencing/in season/media.
The fixation of go and watch here is "reaching" - it could be so much more, this is my pov whereas I know yours that isn't to the levels and runnings I aspire for having bottom clubs punished, growing ambitious clubs rewarded.
Your into the closed league because pre AL it was the messy ethnic comp that didn't agree with you in the end has similar failings currently incl Division go figure.
Above all all is good Sutho - enjoy your GF all the best.
Click to expand...
I agree with hardly any of that. TV companies may advertise the league, but that is only to get their money back. Enough of the P/R nonsense, it has not been a part of the national leagues apart from a few botched years of it since 1977.

Sorry, off to lunch i go !
 
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