Australian Dual Nationals 🇦🇺🏳️

[grazorblade]

Okon and Triantis were never in the same senior squad. Triantis was picked but decided not to front. He then switched. Doesn't look or sound like a committed Aussie to me.

The okon in this anecdote appears to be the dad

 

[Dan_The_Red]

I know FIFA doesnt really give a shit, but at what point do we start questioning the integrity of international football with these eligibility rules. Segecic is a perfect example. Born in Aus, raised in Aus, football development in Aus, youth international at every level for Aus, called into Aus senior squad less than 6 months. All of that being secretly undermined by another federation. I know we've capped dual nationals too, but none of them we're part of their 'original' countries national program.

 

[Cunningstunt]

Okon and Triantis were never in the same senior squad. Triantis was picked but decided not to front. He then switched. Doesn't look or sound like a committed Aussie to me.

I assume he means Okon senior as assistant.

Major bust ups usually leak out. It seems unlikely this occurred.

This discussion has pretty much been done to death many times over. Popa outlined he reasoning explicitly yesterday and if you assume bruised egos being presented with alternate options it explains everything cleanly without the need for conspiracy.

More broadly, if you consider the cultural make up of Australia and do the numbers (I haven't, just estimating), I would expect upwards of 60-70% of potential socceroos to have dual nationality. It only requires one grandparent. We literally cannot cap them all, especially before the age of 21. I agree there are edge cases where it makes sense, Triantis being one of them, where he had earned his spot and the game scenario allowed for it.

Triantis and Segacic both went through the ideal pathway. One which we have often lamented talented kids being overlooked for. Underage teams from a young age through to earning a full call up. They got (to them) a better offer.

 

[grazorblade]

I know FIFA doesnt really give a shit, but at what point do we start questioning the integrity of international football with these eligibility rules. Segecic is a perfect example. Born in Aus, raised in Aus, football development in Aus, youth international at every level for Aus, called into Aus senior squad less than 6 months. All of that being secretly undermined by another federation. I know we've capped dual nationals too, but none of them we're part of their 'original' countries national program.

The players we are most likely to win under the current rules are also players who have more connection to other countries since the whole "one time switch" mechanic advantages the country they arent provisionally tied to

So yes i think the rules have a danger of making international football less authentic

 

[Cunningstunt]

I know FIFA doesnt really give a shit, but at what point do we start questioning the integrity of international football with these eligibility rules. Segecic is a perfect example. Born in Aus, raised in Aus, football development in Aus, youth international at every level for Aus, called into Aus senior squad less than 6 months. All of that being secretly undermined by another federation. I know we've capped dual nationals too, but none of them we're part of their 'original' countries national program.

I was thinking about this, if we would have been better of under the old system where a single appearance for an underage team and that is it. The issue for smaller nations is when kids, Like Volpato, leave at age 16/7 and go to a big euro nation. They get picked for an underage side, it is a big deal, progresses your career, all your mates are being picked.

Where is the line drawn? I think it will just go further and further down the recruitment path. Countries like Australia are always going to lose out because we are an immigrant country and many more people come here than the other way around. Euro countries will always have an advantage because football power centres around the big clubs and leagues in Europe. This is a 'pull' we don't have.

 

[Sharkman84]

 

[JS96]

I know FIFA doesnt really give a shit, but at what point do we start questioning the integrity of international football with these eligibility rules. Segecic is a perfect example. Born in Aus, raised in Aus, football development in Aus, youth international at every level for Aus, called into Aus senior squad less than 6 months. All of that being secretly undermined by another federation. I know we've capped dual nationals too, but none of them we're part of their 'original' countries national program.

To be fair our acquisition is Souttar and others is similar. Segecic ticked every Australia box though so the links were much stronger.

 

[JS96]

It's a good answer but Segecic warranted selection ahead of others. Popovic also talks about loving the environment. Whether Segecic loved it should have been asked. That was the moment to ask about whether there had been a fallout and how selections of many other young players evidently not ready or lagging veterans still got ahead of Segecic.

Okon, Teague, Boyle, Hrustic, Milanovic, A Toure, Silvera, Botic, Borrello, Duke, D'Agostino.

The fact that all of these players say a minute of action is Segecic got none is a rort.

 

[Sharkman84]

It's a good answer but Segecic warranted selection ahead of others. Popovic also talks about loving the environment. Whether Segecic loved it should have been asked. That was the moment to ask about whether there had been a fallout and how selections of many other young players evidently not ready or lagging veterans still got ahead of Segecic.

Okon, Teague, Boyle, Hrustic, Milanovic, A Toure, Silvera, Botic, Borrello, Duke, D'Agostino.

The fact that all of these players say a minute of action is Segecic got none is a rort.

I agreed with Alex on the pod that Popa's own ego was the factor here.

The bloke has terrible man management skills and it's blatantly obvious Popa is a very good club manager but is totally unsuitable to be a national team coach.

When Arnie left we should've gone for an overseas coach.

 

[Monoethnic Social Club]

Hmmm, the statement "It's probably better for Adrian now that he's gone because I won't hold him back from where he really wants to be" sound a touch bitchy to me. Sound like there might have been a bit of tension between Popovic and Segacic.

Also a touch hypocritical... Somebody should ask Popa what HE would have done if he was ever a good enough player to get a call up from Croatia....

 

[Monoethnic Social Club]

Good point about those three.
Interesting quote from Didulica in the Guardian article about Segacic.

View attachment 5937
I think it is a pretty common occurrence where second and third gen migrants don't feel and are often told you aren't Aussie, then at the same time when they return 'home' they are told and don't feel like they are from there either.

When I was chatting to one of my football mates, who is third gen Italian, he just can't believe these guys. To the point where he actually gets upset haha. I suspect they may end up regretting the decision later in life. Triantis maybe less so as he will probably have an international career, but Segacic and Volpato if they don't make it internationally will probably wonder what the point was.

Its a valid statement, the constant migrant "curse" of never quite fitting in...

 

[JS96]

Also a touch hypocritical... Somebody should ask Popa what HE would have done if he was ever a good enough player to get a call up from Croatia....

As much as the truth doesn't always come out and some things shouldn't be said, these stories can get a lot going in the football media and community. At the same time it can create a bitter environment for a longer time.

England has had plenty of feuds and some are actually detrimental and not happy tales.

 

[Monoethnic Social Club]

Those are nuffies and their opinions are so low they shouldn't be heard

But still a point of view that is often repeated both inside and outside football mate... My kids (because of their names and appearance) will NEVER be as dinky di as yours to the general public thats just a fact of life... it not fair but it IS life.

 

[Monoethnic Social Club]

It's interesting the migrant experience. There are many stories of young people who reject their parents' culture because they feel Aussie and want to be accepted as Aussie, and many the opposite, like Didiluca above. To throw in my own personal experience, born in Birmingham (less than a mile from Villa Park!) to Scottish parents. Largely due to being mocked as a Pommie at school, I supported England passionately at a time when they lost everything (except the WC in 1966). Wasn't until my late 20s that I felt totally Aussie, though still fond of ENG and SCO. I have a lot of experience going to Socceroos friendlies against teams like Turkey where there was more support in the stands for the visitors from their migrant communities here. I remember being at a WCQ at the Sydney Football Stadium v Israel in 1989. Half the stadium were waving Israeli flags. I don't like it but I understand it.

was that the match where a certain segemnt of the Socceroos support formed a certain crooked cross chroeography?

 

[Sharkman84]

Popovic going on about not promising young players games yet he gives Okon immunity.

Probably because Okon Snr is on the coaching staff.

All this mess has done is expose why Popovic should never have been given the Socceroos job in the first place.

The bloke would be far better off going back into club management where he can get away with his man management style.

 

[Monoethnic Social Club]

Okon and Triantis were never in the same senior squad. Triantis was picked but decided not to front. He then switched. Doesn't look or sound like a committed Aussie to me.

What does a committed Aussie look like to you? Someone WITHOUT dual nationality... is THAT the main problem here?

These kids are probably a little immature and sure their families are probably dragging them in a few different directions but don't for a minute, think that other players wouldnt "jump ship" if thy had a choice of representing another nation at senior level... The fact that they don;t have any other options doesnt make them any more loyal in my eyes.

 

[Sharkman84]

What does a committed Aussie look like to you? Someone WITHOUT dual nationality... is THAT the main problem here?

These kids are probably a little immature and sure their families are probably dragging them in a few different directions but don't for a minute, think that other players wouldnt "jump ship" if thy had a choice of representing another nation at senior level... The fact that they don;t have any other options doesnt make them any more loyal in my eyes.

It probably has a lot to do with how one is brought up.

My heritage is British obviously (maternal grandfather came to Oz from England over a 100 years ago as a kid) but had I been a player would I have wanted to represent England? Fuck no, I am Australian and my late grandfather considered himself as an Australian as well despite both his parents being British migrants.

 

[Monoethnic Social Club]

It probably has a lot to do with how one is brought up.

My heritage is British obviously (maternal grandfather came to Oz from England over a 100 years ago as a kid) but had I been a player would I have wanted to represent England? Fuck no, I am Australian and my late grandfather considered himself as an Australian as well despite both his parents being British migrants.

Its ALOT easier to say fuck no to ethnicity when your Australian-ess isn't questioned, EVER.

 

[erogenouszone]

I like anzac biscuits

Pair it with vanilla ice cream and a cup of tea and you're cooking with gas.

 

[Sharkman84]

Its ALOT easier to say fuck no to ethnicity when your Australian-ess isn't questioned, EVER.

The other factor in play for me is I'm a lifelong cricket fan and all my sporting dreams were of wearing the baggy green (although Glenn McGrath would look like Bradman with the bat than me, I could bowl a bit though) and England was the Old Enemy in my mind, I got into football in my late preteens in the mid 90's because of the Premier League.