Promotion and Relegation is vital for Football in Australia

[grazorblade]

I’d like to think I would’ve still become an advocate for pro/rel in ️; probably further down the line than when I did, but as you said, it’s hypothetical. Besides, this A-League system was never designed to produce new Golden Generations, if we’re being blunt.

Yep the catostrophic youth production particularly early on was a disaster even though its partly fixed

Does anyone know if socceroos tv money was subsidizing the a league?

Real kill the golden goose strategy if so

 

[Monoethnic Social Club]

Cant speak for others but my opinion has evolved over the years mostly due to getting to know fans of nsl clubs, learning about the game and its history

A league struggles could be a factor, i suppose if we were producing heaps of harry kewell level players id count that as big evidence in favour of the status quo

So the only reason you want pro/rel and competition for true football clubs is to provide a "production line" of talented players for the national team? You would be happy with something to beat your jingoistic chest for every 4 years or at other (mainly forgettable) minor tournaments and begrudge generations of connections and community through football?

 

[grazorblade]

So the only reason you want pro/rel and competition for true football clubs is to provide a "production line" of talented players for the national team? You would be happy with something to beat your jingoistic chest for every 4 years or at other (mainly forgettable) minor tournaments and begrudge generations of connections and community through football?

I didn't say it was the only reason. But if it was the case that a closed shop did better than other formats that would be a big factor in its favour to be honest. There are other factors (moral factors) but player production is a big priority for me

It's not just the world cup either, I also am in the european timezone, so having aussies at big 5 clubs would give me a lot more players to follow on top of roos tournaments. If we did better in a closed shop in asian champions league that would matter too

 

[Monoethnic Social Club]

I didn't say it was the only reason. But if it was the case that a closed shop did better than other formats that would be a big factor in its favour to be honest. There are other factors (moral factors) but player production is a big priority for me

It's not just the world cup either, I also am in the european timezone, so having aussies at big 5 clubs would give me a lot more players to follow on top of roos tournaments. If we did better in a closed shop in asian champions league that would matter too

I suppose it all boils down to what we all want as football fans and what we perceive as a successful outcome Sadly, I don't think there IS an ecosystem that has both a robust football league system AND an measurably successful national side AT THE SAME TIME.. maybe Germany and France are outliers

 

[grazorblade]

I suppose it all boils down to what we all want as football fans and what we perceive as a successful outcome Sadly, I don't think there IS an ecosystem that has both a robust football league system AND an measurably successful national side AT THE SAME TIME.. maybe Germany and France are outliers

the two seem pretty correlated though?

If I looked at the top 50 leagues in the world and top 50 national teams, I suspect the overlap is pretty close?

 

[Monoethnic Social Club]

the two seem pretty correlated though?

If I looked at the top 50 leagues in the world and top 50 national teams, I suspect the overlap is pretty close?

Top league is the English and they haven't won anything in 60 years.... On the other side you have Argentina and Brazil with popular leagues but quality wise,,,, well like I said it seems to be wither one or the other wins out.

 

[grazorblade]

Top league is the English and they haven't won anything in 60 years.... On the other side you have Argentina and Brazil with popular leagues but quality wise,,,, well like I said it seems to be wither one or the other wins out.

yeah I heard the seri a history where their best NT performances was when they put limits on foreign players. I'd support such limits even in a pyramid system personally

 

[erogenouszone]

Yep the catostrophic youth production particularly early on was a disaster even though its partly fixed

Does anyone know if socceroos tv money was subsidizing the a league?

Real kill the golden goose strategy if so

I do know that the TV money was subsidising a good percentage of the individual A League clubs salary cap to a certain extent and now that the TV money distribution can be measured in gold coin donation that has obviously ended thus explaining the dire financial predicament the clubs and by default the league can be measured in, this of course a few years ago started off the business model of in house youth player production and on sell transfers as a revenue stream.

With my administrator's hat on when the FFA ran the show pulling Socceroos TV money, ticketing and merchandising and redistributing it to the A League is very poor practice and essentially robbing Peter to pay Paul and goes against sound budgeting and financial governance. You have a budget, you stick to it and at the time the A League didn't really need it. One thing has nothing to do with another.

When the APL got greedy and stupid they're the one who the rough end of the stick financially and the FA ironically is in a better position now than ever with the Socceroos, Matilda and now have a potential winner with the Championship whilst the APL has to scrap for every dollar.

Imagine as a thought bubble P & R happened next season, traditionally federations ( like the English FA for example ) give newly promoted teams a balloon payment to help with transfers and the extra expenses associated with an elevated level of professionalism or in our case full professionalism for newly promoted clubs NPL1 Australia wide. Would the FA be willing to provide that balloon payment to assist the NPL1 clubs? Would a fund/pool exist built over several seasons that the clubs/FA can dip into to assist in the transition? Who is paying for this ? Would the APL because they're greedy and stupid be willing to chip in to assist the promotion/relegation transition for the benefit of the A League or would they demand massive payments for their own A League fund/pool so that they existing A League clubs don't squeal about how they had to pay franchise payments and the new clubs don't etc ?

All of the above points are negotiable however the APL is the road block here. The FA seems to me is open to it, the NPL1 clubs wouldn't mind after a lot of give and take. Would the A League clubs be willing? Would the APL be willing? Are the A League terrified of relegation as they feel they would disappear off the face of the Earth if they were relegated?

I think we all know the answers to these questions.

 

[HappyGuus]

I do know that the TV money was subsidising a good percentage of the individual A League clubs salary cap to a certain extent and now that the TV money distribution can be measured in gold coin donation that has obviously ended thus explaining the dire financial predicament the clubs and by default the league can be measured in, this of course a few years ago started off the business model of in house youth player production and on sell transfers as a revenue stream.

With my administrator's hat on when the FFA ran the show pulling Socceroos TV money, ticketing and merchandising and redistributing it to the A League is very poor practice and essentially robbing Peter to pay Paul and goes against sound budgeting and financial governance. You have a budget, you stick to it and at the time the A League didn't really need it. One thing has nothing to do with another.

When the APL got greedy and stupid they're the one who the rough end of the stick financially and the FA ironically is in a better position now than ever with the Socceroos, Matilda and now have a potential winner with the Championship whilst the APL has to scrap for every dollar.

Imagine as a thought bubble P & R happened next season, traditionally federations ( like the English FA for example ) give newly promoted teams a balloon payment to help with transfers and the extra expenses associated with an elevated level of professionalism or in our case full professionalism for newly promoted clubs NPL1 Australia wide. Would the FA be willing to provide that balloon payment to assist the NPL1 clubs? Would a fund/pool exist built over several seasons that the clubs/FA can dip into to assist in the transition? Who is paying for this ? Would the APL because they're greedy and stupid be willing to chip in to assist the promotion/relegation transition for the benefit of the A League or would they demand massive payments for their own A League fund/pool so that they existing A League clubs don't squeal about how they had to pay franchise payments and the new clubs don't etc ?

All of the above points are negotiable however the APL is the road block here. The FA seems to me is open to it, the NPL1 clubs wouldn't mind after a lot of give and take. Would the A League clubs be willing? Would the APL be willing? Are the A League terrified of relegation as they feel they would disappear off the face of the Earth if they were relegated?

I think we all know the answers to these questions.

Where does the PFA stand in all this? If anything gets done about pro/rel, guaranteed the PFA will kick up a stink about something.

 

[NicCarBel]

yeah I heard the seri a history where their best NT performances was when they put limits on foreign players. I'd support such limits even in a pyramid system personally

These limits should realistically be the 'salary cap'.

Eg, scratch the salary cap, but these limits are forced. do AFC still have 5+1 limits for champions league or is it open slather? This is the limit I'd put on (even though, generally, our clubs don't go near that limit anyways)

 

[Monoethnic Social Club]

yeah I heard the seri a history where their best NT performances was when they put limits on foreign players. I'd support such limits even in a pyramid system personally

Agree, Italy in the 90s with a 3 foreigners cap did wonders for both their NT and the league.

 

[Monoethnic Social Club]

I do know that the TV money was subsidising a good percentage of the individual A League clubs salary cap to a certain extent and now that the TV money distribution can be measured in gold coin donation that has obviously ended thus explaining the dire financial predicament the clubs and by default the league can be measured in, this of course a few years ago started off the business model of in house youth player production and on sell transfers as a revenue stream.

With my administrator's hat on when the FFA ran the show pulling Socceroos TV money, ticketing and merchandising and redistributing it to the A League is very poor practice and essentially robbing Peter to pay Paul and goes against sound budgeting and financial governance. You have a budget, you stick to it and at the time the A League didn't really need it. One thing has nothing to do with another.

When the APL got greedy and stupid they're the one who the rough end of the stick financially and the FA ironically is in a better position now than ever with the Socceroos, Matilda and now have a potential winner with the Championship whilst the APL has to scrap for every dollar.

Imagine as a thought bubble P & R happened next season, traditionally federations ( like the English FA for example ) give newly promoted teams a balloon payment to help with transfers and the extra expenses associated with an elevated level of professionalism or in our case full professionalism for newly promoted clubs NPL1 Australia wide. Would the FA be willing to provide that balloon payment to assist the NPL1 clubs? Would a fund/pool exist built over several seasons that the clubs/FA can dip into to assist in the transition? Who is paying for this ? Would the APL because they're greedy and stupid be willing to chip in to assist the promotion/relegation transition for the benefit of the A League or would they demand massive payments for their own A League fund/pool so that they existing A League clubs don't squeal about how they had to pay franchise payments and the new clubs don't etc ?

All of the above points are negotiable however the APL is the road block here. The FA seems to me is open to it, the NPL1 clubs wouldn't mind after a lot of give and take. Would the A League clubs be willing? Would the APL be willing? Are the A League terrified of relegation as they feel they would disappear off the face of the Earth if they were relegated?

I think we all know the answers to these questions.

We DO indeed.... There will (I believe) come a time when the APL clubs don't have any other options left to them ... but by then will they be of any value to anyone and will the FA even want them back?

 

[HonestSpursFan]

Top league is the English and they haven't won anything in 60 years.... On the other side you have Argentina and Brazil with popular leagues but quality wise,,,, well like I said it seems to be wither one or the other wins out.

Except barely anyone in Argentina or Brazil's World Cup squads plays in Argentina or Brazil. At the 2022 World Cup only one Argentinian (Franco Armani) and three Brazilians (Éverton Ribeiro, Pedro and Weverton) played in Argentina or Brazil. Besides a 21-year-old Pedro from Flamengo the other three were all over 32.

 

[Monoethnic Social Club]

Except barely anyone in Argentina or Brazil's World Cup squads plays in Argentina or Brazil. At the 2022 World Cup only one Argentinian (Franco Armani) and three Brazilians (Éverton Ribeiro, Pedro and Weverton) played in Argentina or Brazil. Besides a 21-year-old Pedro from Flamengo the other three were all over 32.

Thats what Im saying though its almost impossible to have EVERYTHING...

 

[Sutherlandbear]

Thats what Im saying though its almost impossible to have EVERYTHING...

We have been saying that for years now

 

[grazorblade]

 

[NicCarBel]

Interesting.. I like the sounds of it. But I guess bringing a club to the Championship (via winning the NPL) is the best they can achieve with this.

 

[LFC]

Well you can’t get in the league mate unless you pay not by what if merit ?!
Good luck to him put your money and support behind your dream like all our clubs have - wish you the best joining us in the big flight of NPL and Championship one day - that’s our current eco system long live the banished leagues and clubs

 

[HonestSpursFan]

Just a random thought: since we know some people (*cough* Redditors *cough*) hate the Championship/NPL/old NSL clubs, what would they think of an expanded A-League with pro/rel and thus ex-NSL clubs (including ethnic clubs) came into the league?

Matter of fact is that partly why Championship/NPL haters don’t think pro/rel is possible or disagree with it entirely? Just a random thought.

 

[NicCarBel]

Just a random thought: since we know some people (*cough* Redditors *cough*) hate the Championship/NPL/old NSL clubs, what would they think of an expanded A-League with pro/rel and thus ex-NSL clubs (including ethnic clubs) came into the league?

Matter of fact is that partly why Championship/NPL haters don’t think pro/rel is possible or disagree with it entirely? Just a random thought.

They would think they aren't financially stable - is my understanding