A-League Mens 25/26 - Round 16

[JS96]

MOTM.

Took his time.

 

[NoMates]

I forgot Shaw - I really like him. Unfortunately I have to say that in another team he would be fantastic .

We still have the players and team to be competitive for the 6. It is our mindset and organisation that is poor. We are not playing like a team at all and to me it feels like we have 6 specific coaches looking after parts of our game play and no-one looking at the whole.

All Roar did was play long ball and act like thugs, minimum efforts produce minimum results. You couldn't even put two passes together most of the match. This is not the Roar I seen at the start of the season, Another decent crowd turns up to witness woeful football.

 

[Muz]

Could or could not be due to his recent family matter but we all react differently too.

It's not like it's the first time it's happened. I like that refs are clamping down.

Sure, if a ref a blatantly poor then a word or two will be inevitable but the cisntant harassing of officials sours it for me.

Its the culture of the club. Just watch the bench during the game.

We've all had these coaches. Even before the game they're saying 'you know this ref hates us', 'we're not going to get any of the call today fellas' etc etc.

Then at half time rather than try and fix what's going wrong they piss and moan for 14 out of the 15 minutes about the ref.

 

[JS96]

Its the culture of the club. Just watch the bench during the game.

We've all had these coaches. Even before the game they're saying 'you know this ref hates us', 'we're not going to get any of the call today fellas' etc etc.

Then at half time rather than try and fix what's going wrong they piss and moan for 14 out of the 15 minutes about the ref.

Can't stand clubs like that. Bayern are just.... All jumping off near shoving the 4th official.

This is where stern warnings are needed. Look at all the other sports that don't permit any kind of stupid disrespect towards officials.

 

[RIMB]

All Roar did was play long ball and act like thugs, minimum efforts produce minimum results. You couldn't even put two passes together most of the match. This is not the Roar I seen at the start of the season, Another decent crowd turns up to witness woeful football.

I actually thought Mariners started the thuggery and professional fouling this game. The first couple of fouls were ignored or let go as a warning only - but the blatant cynical types of fouls should be stamped out as soon as they happen. Ridiculous to tell a player who just grabbed someone's shirt and pulled them off an early build up that they have had their one warning.

One of my big bugbears - you don't give a warning for a deliberate professional foul or you allow it for everyone and start creating the dangerous pressure cooker.

When the ref let it go (some as play on but others inexplicably as no foul) it got uglier the longer the game went on.

Blatant yellow card offences by both teams were waved away - shirt pulls, trips, grappling - Donachie right into D'Agostino's bum with his knee, Ruhs with a very obvious and deliberate trip on a Mariners player running in support of the ball carrier.

It is just that Mariners played decent football around the shit and we didn't.

 

[Muz]

I actually thought Mariners started the thuggery and professional fouling this game. The first couple of fouls were ignored or let go as a warning only - but the blatant cynical types of fouls should be stamped out as soon as they happen. Ridiculous to tell a player who just grabbed someone's shirt and pulled them off an early build up that they have had their one warning.

One of my big bugbears - you don't give a warning for a deliberate professional foul or you allow it for everyone and start creating the dangerous pressure cooker.

When the ref let it go (some as play on but others inexplicably as no foul) it got uglier the longer the game went on.

Blatant yellow card offences by both teams were waved away - shirt pulls, trips, grappling - Donachie right into D'Agostino's bum with his knee, Ruhs with a very obvious and deliberate trip on a Mariners player running in support of the ball carrier.

It is just that Mariners played decent football around the shit and we didn't.

Time to do that course brother.

Jokes aside Brisbane were rubbish.

Actually in all serious I'd love a bloke with strong opinions about refs to do the course, ref for a season, and then come back here and say whether they've changed their opinion or not on match decisions.

Do what I did RIMB. I used to watch my kids get reffed and I was a bit 'I could do better than that'. Hahaha.

Well that and I was always volunteering because they were always short. Said to myself 'may as well get paid for it seeing I'm doing it for free anyway'.

 

[patjennings]

I actually thought Mariners started the thuggery and professional fouling this game. The first couple of fouls were ignored or let go as a warning only - but the blatant cynical types of fouls should be stamped out as soon as they happen. Ridiculous to tell a player who just grabbed someone's shirt and pulled them off an early build up that they have had their one warning.

One of my big bugbears - you don't give a warning for a deliberate professional foul or you allow it for everyone and start creating the dangerous pressure cooker.

When the ref let it go (some as play on but others inexplicably as no foul) it got uglier the longer the game went on.

Blatant yellow card offences by both teams were waved away - shirt pulls, trips, grappling - Donachie right into D'Agostino's bum with his knee, Ruhs with a very obvious and deliberate trip on a Mariners player running in support of the ball carrier.

It is just that Mariners played decent football around the shit and we didn't.

No it started on what should have been a yellow for a foul - shoulder into the back of Ngor. Then Ngor tried a get square soon after and got a yellow. Then from that point until Maeroni got his yellow just before Roar goal all Roar where interested in was hacking the Mariners and stepping in front of Mariner players in back play to take them out in support. If it happens once you think it is bad luck or an accident, when it happens repeatedly it is a deliberate tactic.

 

[Muz]

Can't stand clubs like that. Bayern are just.... All jumping off near shoving the 4th official.

This is where stern warnings are needed. Look at all the other sports that don't permit any kind of stupid disrespect towards officials.

Man United back in the 90s were like that. 8 players surrounding the ref, Fergie going bananas.

Actually in the Auckland Sydney game Garuccio gave the lino the biggest spray in the first 5 minutes and King let him off with a warning. Pretty silly of the ref there to not card him. Sets the tone for what's allowable.

 

[Muz]

No it started on what should have been a yellow for a foul - shoulder into the back of Ngor. Then Ngor tried a get square soon after and got a yellow. Then from that point until Maeroni got his yellow just before Roar goal all Roar where interested in was hacking the Mariners and stepping in front of Mariner players in back play to take them out in support. If it happens once you think it is bad luck or an accident, when it happens repeatedly it is a deliberate tactic.

The first tussle down the line early when they were both pushing and shoving and the dark lad fell over near the 18 and the ref let it go set it up. (By the way the ref was right to let that go, both players giving as good as they got.)

Anyway the dark lad cracked it and then came and cynically upended the lad on the line 2 minutes later looking for a square up. Easy yellow.

Ref did everything correct there.

 

[patjennings]

The first tussle down the line early when they were both pushing and shoving and the dark lad fell over near the 18 and the ref let it go set it up. (By the way the ref was right to let that go both players giving as good as they got.)

Anyway the dark lad cracked it and then came and cynically upended the lad on the line 2 minutes later looking for a square up. Easy yellow.

Ref did everything correct there.

That was Ngor - the tussle happened seconds after the the shoulder in the back. Happy with the tussle - just not the shoulder in the back

 

[RIMB]

It is funny what you see or miss live.

I saw Bility (our guy) grab Ngor's shirt for a moment to get equal footing (foul not called) then the 50/50 with both players grappling and grabbing as they ran, then Bility got the better of Ngor in the legal physical challenge to win the ball.

To me it should have been a yellow for Bility for preventing a promising attack right at the start but the initial contact was ignored.

Salas (our short, fast right back) was the one who got squared up with Ngor driving him face first into the ground for the yellow card. If Bility put the shoulder into Ngor there was no evening the score when Ngor smashed Salas.

The first offence in the game I can recall was on the farside of the pitch from the team benches. Can't remember who or what exactly happened, but it was something like a shirt pull that stopped us attacking quickly. Can't even remember if it was called back for a free kick but I think not - just waved on as nothing to see.

To my orange eyes there were a couple of incidents like that to start, with Roar players being fouled before the retaliation kicked in. Maybe I missed others since I just can't see opposition players getting fouled the same as I see Roar players. Comes down to focussing on my player so I see when they get hit but miss when they might step on an opponents foot or hit them late when my attention goes to the next Roar player near the ball.

 

[dr. bellows]

Well, we suck.

The team is focussed more on complaining to the ref under the mentorship of coach Valkanis than doing what they are there for.

How can we expect better from a team when the entire coaching group abuses the officials all game?

At the ground there were a lot of decisions (both ways) that just made no sense. There were hacks and trips, shirt pulls and grapples that got waved away sometimes and called others. But that does not give an excuse to abuse the officials.

It makes for stupid players making stupid decisions - and that sums up a lot of our play now.

We had some really good players today - working hard to create and defend - and the only goals Mariners scored were well taken opportunities based on luck.

Strange, because their attacking play was cohesive and intelligent - trying so many different ways up the left wing particularly to get Ngor or Mauragis onto an attacking run. Really clever rotation and timed runs to create something.

The fact that none of the attacks really produced what they could have is beside the point.

We scored our goal - and no lie - I said to the people I was with "we are going to concede in the next 3 minutes". And we did. We are entirely dependable in that we are so vulnerable after we score.

Credit to Mariners for a deserved win. We kept out every thrust and failed to stop the two random flurries that counted.

On the positive side for us, D'Agostino worked and created well. Making good runs, challenging well for the ball and earning the chance to create. Salas and McGarry created for half a game but spent most of their time and energy passing backwards and defending. Unfortunately our attacks lacked cohesion and intensity and there were lengthy periods where we had the ball and had no idea what to do with it. Flat footed players and flat, reactive play.

As someone said earlier - we cannot string two passes together (unless you count passing to an opponent) and it is so frustrating to watch.

Valkanis, Ludwik and Bility all had moments of indecision, missed tackles or poor clearances. our defence is badly flawed and leaks. It looks to me like we are good at defending most clean crosses and the like - but as soon as there is a deflection or second/third phase of attack we fail to see the danger and concede. I think we think "system" and "who am I marking" rather than anyone actually paying attention to the game in general.

Klein is far better off playing the front half - having him as a DM shows up some suspect tackling techniques and limits our attacking options.

Vrakas is a crazed ball chaser with a bad case of tunnel vision.

Maieroni can do very good things, then follows it up with something stupid.

Bouzanis and long balls are getting tiresome.

Ruhs had a particularly ineffective game - mostly because almost every time we brought the ball up the wing we decided we did not have the pace to go further and passed backwards. The few times we tried it Ruhs got in behind using speed, strength and very clever (legal) body work.

In short - we have lost everything that was good about our play in pre-season and early season. Our defence is suspect without Herrington, our midfield is weak without Stajic at the base and O'Shea ahead of him, and our forwards do not have any idea about each others' play or how to combine to create shots.

Our mentality has moved from focussed intensity to a lack of accuracy and increased mistakes with poor decision making.

Not sure what we can do to turn this around and not sure if we can turn it around.

Valkanis is being tested and we are coming up short so far.

Well, we suck.

The team is focussed more on complaining to the ref under the mentorship of coach Valkanis than doing what they are there for.

How can we expect better from a team when the entire coaching group abuses the officials all game?

At the ground there were a lot of decisions (both ways) that just made no sense. There were hacks and trips, shirt pulls and grapples that got waved away sometimes and called others. But that does not give an excuse to abuse the officials.

It makes for stupid players making stupid decisions - and that sums up a lot of our play now.

We had some really good players today - working hard to create and defend - and the only goals Mariners scored were well taken opportunities based on luck.

Strange, because their attacking play was cohesive and intelligent - trying so many different ways up the left wing particularly to get Ngor or Mauragis onto an attacking run. Really clever rotation and timed runs to create something.

The fact that none of the attacks really produced what they could have is beside the point.

We scored our goal - and no lie - I said to the people I was with "we are going to concede in the next 3 minutes". And we did. We are entirely dependable in that we are so vulnerable after we score.

Credit to Mariners for a deserved win. We kept out every thrust and failed to stop the two random flurries that counted.

On the positive side for us, D'Agostino worked and created well. Making good runs, challenging well for the ball and earning the chance to create. Salas and McGarry created for half a game but spent most of their time and energy passing backwards and defending. Unfortunately our attacks lacked cohesion and intensity and there were lengthy periods where we had the ball and had no idea what to do with it. Flat footed players and flat, reactive play.

As someone said earlier - we cannot string two passes together (unless you count passing to an opponent) and it is so frustrating to watch.

Valkanis, Ludwik and Bility all had moments of indecision, missed tackles or poor clearances. our defence is badly flawed and leaks. It looks to me like we are good at defending most clean crosses and the like - but as soon as there is a deflection or second/third phase of attack we fail to see the danger and concede. I think we think "system" and "who am I marking" rather than anyone actually paying attention to the game in general.

Klein is far better off playing the front half - having him as a DM shows up some suspect tackling techniques and limits our attacking options.

Vrakas is a crazed ball chaser with a bad case of tunnel vision.

Maieroni can do very good things, then follows it up with something stupid.

Bouzanis and long balls are getting tiresome.

Ruhs had a particularly ineffective game - mostly because almost every time we brought the ball up the wing we decided we did not have the pace to go further and passed backwards. The few times we tried it Ruhs got in behind using speed, strength and very clever (legal) body work.

In short - we have lost everything that was good about our play in pre-season and early season. Our defence is suspect without Herrington, our midfield is weak without Stajic at the base and O'Shea ahead of him, and our forwards do not have any idea about each others' play or how to combine to create shots.

Our mentality has moved from focussed intensity to a lack of accuracy and increased mistakes with poor decision making.

Not sure what we can do to turn this around and not sure if we can turn it around.

Valkanis is being tested and we are coming up short so far.

What a difference a couple of weeks makes. First half against Adelaide to this display.

 

[dr. bellows]

Valkanis carrying on post match like an idiot.

Absolute tool.

Feel sorry for you @RIMB with that fool running the show.

Every person on the bench jumping up and down all game every single time there's contact.

Yeah, a coach under pressure not handling it well. But I also think probably some personal animosity from last time they met carrying over and adding fuel to the fire.

 

[dr. bellows]

With herrington and stajic gone all ability to build up play and keep clean sheets is gone

klein and daggers are the only names I'm excited to see on the team sheet. We have become very meh

I think Klein is noticeably less influential than earlier in the season, perhaps pushed into more defensive role. Daggers showed his quality from limited opportunities. Hope the injury isn't serious.

 

[RIMB]

Time to do that course brother.

Jokes aside Brisbane were rubbish.

Actually in all serious I'd love a bloke with strong opinions about refs to do the course, ref for a season, and then come back here on whether they've changed their opinion or not on match decisions.

Do what I did RIMB. I used to watch my kids get reffed and I was a bit 'I could do better than that'. Hahaha.

Well that and I was always volunteering because they were always short. Said to myself 'may as well get paid for it seeing I'm doing it for free anyway'.

As I have said many times, I do not agree with the vision or judgement of the ref at times but I do not question his right to make the calls he sees or his responsibility to not call what he doesn't see. There were a lot of incidents tonight that looked like blatant fouls from where I was sitting and it just seemed more inconsistent than happens in most games.

Neither side gained an advantage over the other by that but it brought the game down to a level it should not get to. And tonight that was on the ref not stamping it out early enough. It happens.

I cannot stand the way my team, lead by the coach, thinks it is OK to abuse the ref or other officials. It is not the face of my club - just the face of the current coaching staff. It is not pride in the club or grit to be aggressive or abusive.

I watch the game for fun and the desire for my team to do well. No interest in becoming a ref - I have done it many times when we were the duty team at touch footy and hated it.

I cannot be impartial in a football match - I always pick a side even if it is picking the one I like least and hope they lose.

No course for me. I am a fan who judges based on what I see not an unbiased ref who has to try and see it all at once. I am happy with my seat at the game.

Regardless though - bring back shirt pull equals automatic yellow please FIFA. We can all see a shirt pull and we all know it is a professional foul - done deliberately and no 'warning' required.

I agree with you entirely that we were rubbish tonight. Most disappointing is knowing we shouldn't be with the players we have.

We have lost the identity we were building and exaggerated the weaknesses and frustrating behaviours. We might as well be a sequel.

 

[RIMB]

I think Klein is noticeably less influential than earlier in the season, perhaps pushed into more defensive role. Daggers showed his quality from limited opportunities. Hope the injury isn't serious.

Klein has to play in the front half for me. He can fill in as a DM but he is not a DM. His strengths without the ball upfield, and with the ball in the front third, give us a much greater advantage than anything he brings to the DM role.

That loss of his impact is heightened so much when we also have O'Shea out injured. Not the same quality of player, but Klein is a good replacement for O'Shea in a central to attacking midfield role.

Daggers showed what a hunting forward should be like. Worked the whole time he was on - even when we had him isolated up front and trying to put pressure on 5 Mariners.

 

[dr. bellows]

Klein has to play in the front half for me. He can fill in as a DM but he is not a DM. His strengths without the ball upfield, and with the ball in the front third, give us a much greater advantage than anything he brings to the DM role.

That loss of his impact is heightened so much when we also have O'Shea out injured. Not the same quality of player, but Klein is a good replacement for O'Shea in a central to attacking midfield role.

Daggers showed what a hunting forward should be like. Worked the whole time he was on - even when we had him isolated up front and trying to put pressure on 5 Mariners.

Agree about Klein. Also, I'm pretty meh about Vrakas.

 

[Muz]

As I have said many times, I do not agree with the vision or judgement of the ref at times but I do not question his right to make the calls he sees or his responsibility to not call what he doesn't see. There were a lot of incidents tonight that looked like blatant fouls from where I was sitting and it just seemed more inconsistent than happens in most games.

Neither side gained an advantage over the other by that but it brought the game down to a level it should not get to. And tonight that was on the ref not stamping it out early enough. It happens.

I cannot stand the way my team, lead by the coach, thinks it is OK to abuse the ref or other officials. It is not the face of my club - just the face of the current coaching staff. It is not pride in the club or grit to be aggressive or abusive.

I watch the game for fun and the desire for my team to do well. No interest in becoming a ref - I have done it many times when we were the duty team at touch footy and hated it.

I cannot be impartial in a football match - I always pick a side even if it is picking the one I like least and hope they lose.

No course for me. I am a fan who judges based on what I see not an unbiased ref who has to try and see it all at once. I am happy with my seat at the game.

Regardless though - bring back shirt pull equals automatic yellow please FIFA. We can all see a shirt pull and we all know it is a professional foul - done deliberately and no 'warning' required.

I agree with you entirely that we were rubbish tonight. Most disappointing is knowing we shouldn't be with the players we have.

We have lost the identity we were building and exaggerated the weaknesses and frustrating behaviours. We might as well be a sequel.

I want to watch a match with you. Not to be a smart arse. I genuinely think it'd be interesting. See if I'm seeing what you're seeing.

 

[AUFC_Fan]

Did anyone see Valkanis’ post match presser? Two and a half minutes of ranting before a Brisbane staffer interrupted and shut it down hahaha

 

[RIMB]

What a difference a couple of weeks makes. First half against Adelaide to this display.

I think the first half against Adelaide was the aberation unfortunately.

6 losses and 1 win out of the last 7 games paints a very clear picture when the results genuinely reflect our consistent and persistent decline.

Injuries and the loss of Herrington have hurt us badly with the spine of the team gone (Herrington/Stajic/O'Shea) - but it does not explain how the rest of the team has lost the ability, and at times motivation, to play positive, team football.

Our individual parts are actually greater than our whole at the moment - which is failure in a team sport.