Interview with Les Scheinflug

[BA81]

I know it's hard to go back in time but what world if they kept the same structures in place instead of starting again with the old soccer/new football tag?

I feel the Crawford report as much was needed it the interpretation was probably wrong that we need new clubs to replace them when actually we need the foundation to evolve allowing the best of both worlds to happen without scarifying the youth development structures which underpin the national league and national teams? It was kind of crazy that it took 10 years for a-league teams to start having academy sides when they should have had it as part of entering into the a-league era after all that's how football leagues operate.

Lately I’ve gotten to wondering what if ‘reform’ had merely been (off-field)permanently blacklisting the individual bureaucrats who’d bled the game dry for their own kleptocratic ends ie. Tony Labbozzetta and (on-field)creating new expansion clubs for the NSL..but wait for it..

..instead of being ‘broadbased’ franchises cooked up to aesthetically appeal to ‘the mainstream’, they would’ve been *mono-ethnic* clubs created to represent (some of)the later migrant-communities that for w/ever reason had never been actively courted by the NSL or lower-tier domestic ️ in altogether

The closest there came to fruition was the ‘Melbourne Dragons’ bid back in late-‘02 which as the name implies would’ve primarily set out to appeal to East Asian communities, and IIRC was@ one point lobbying in conjunction w/an NBL expansion-side(which obv didn’t come to fruition either)

 

[BA81]

(Cont.) a Latin American-themed one would’ve obv stood to be a runaway success IMHO; something in the vein of this recreational rugby-league side from Sydney’s logo

 

[grazorblade]

I know it's hard to go back in time but what world if they kept the same structures in place instead of starting again with the old soccer/new football tag?

I feel the Crawford report as much was needed it the interpretation was probably wrong that we need new clubs to replace them when actually we need the foundation to evolve allowing the best of both worlds to happen without scarifying the youth development structures which underpin the national league and national teams? It was kind of crazy that it took 10 years for a-league teams to start having academy sides when they should have had it as part of entering into the a-league era after all that's how football leagues operate.

they brought in franchises in adelaide united, perth glory and newcastle jets before the a league era. I wonder if it would have been possible to bring in melbourne victory, sydney fc, ccm and wsw if the ffa never threw out the old nsl clubs?

perhaps the most important suggestion of the crawford report was a separation of the body that runs the league and the body that runs the sport as a whole. We only just have that and it seems a major catalyst in making a second division. It is probably delayed a bit due to the fact that a league clubs get enough voting rights to run interference but I doubt it is delayed forever

For me the big sliding doors moment is when we went to a conference in the 80s. What if we went to 2 tiers and kept p&r until today?

 

[Barca4life]

Better late than never Barca well brought up…..
It staggers me how they threw everything away for the AL.
Just as any business take over there is good and bad - positives negatives but the astute buyer would look at the good that helps you business model grow.
No not to Frank, surprisingly a successful businessman but htf did he fuck up our game a game he actually lived for his Hakoah fellow devotee’s let alone the Crawford Report being like it the friggin bible !
Look at us 20yrs down the path.
They say NSL was joke well with all the intel post AL start, report this report that look where we are !
The new dawners are ignoramaces’s.
I watch read their hope of this player that player and the next coming ?!
Yer like good luck - I see no core I see no players hitting heights, Irakunda, how before him is the next best thing.
Trouble is we need a dozen next best things of varied varieties.
Crawford saw something - fucked if I know.

Put it this way it’s has cost the progress of the last 10 to 15 years and we now are playing catch up, couldn’t believe how naive they were just to chase the corporate dollar and the sport is paying the price for it.

 

[Barca4life]

they brought in franchises in adelaide united, perth glory and newcastle jets before the a league era. I wonder if it would have been possible to bring in melbourne victory, sydney fc, ccm and wsw if the ffa never threw out the old nsl clubs?

perhaps the most important suggestion of the crawford report was a separation of the body that runs the league and the body that runs the sport as a whole. We only just have that and it seems a major catalyst in making a second division. It is probably delayed a bit due to the fact that a league clubs get enough voting rights to run interference but I doubt it is delayed forever

For me the big sliding doors moment is when we went to a conference in the 80s. What if we went to 2 tiers and kept p&r until today?

Yep so many sliding doors moments in the sport, I do agree adding new teams would have been better than starting again with a new league with no history behind it but unfortunately the Lowy’s along with the non-football excecs had different ideas…

You can also add the 1997 World Cup qualifier against Iran, if only we won that do we even had seen the aleague it’s so hard to predict but it may have been pivotal for the sport during that time if they had qualified.

 

[Barca4life]

Lately I’ve gotten to wondering what if ‘reform’ had merely been (off-field)permanently blacklisting the individual bureaucrats who’d bled the game dry for their own kleptocratic ends ie. Tony Labbozzetta and (on-field)creating new expansion clubs for the NSL..but wait for it..

..instead of being ‘broadbased’ franchises cooked up to aesthetically appeal to ‘the mainstream’, they would’ve been *mono-ethnic* clubs created to represent (some of)the later migrant-communities that for w/ever reason had never been actively courted by the NSL or lower-tier domestic ️ in altogether

The closest there came to fruition was the ‘Melbourne Dragons’ bid back in late-‘02 which as the name implies would’ve primarily set out to appeal to East Asian communities, and IIRC was@ one point lobbying in conjunction w/an NBL expansion-side(which obv didn’t come to fruition either)

That would have been interesting I why how the idea of the Victory got off the ground assuming when the aleague started?

 

[grazorblade]

Put it this way it’s has cost the progress of the last 10 to 15 years and we now are playing catch up, couldn’t believe how naive they were just to chase the corporate dollar and the sport is paying the price for it.

no academies and a short nyl was completely insane....at least give the old nsl clubs the option of making a second tier from day 1...

 

[Barca4life]

no academies and a short nyl was completely insane....at least give the old nsl clubs the option of making a second tier from day 1...

It looks shorted sighted and silly now, agree.

 

[Monoethnic Social Club]

That would have been interesting I why how the idea of the Victory got off the ground assuming when the aleague started?

I really thought that Carlton SC was going to be the "Victory" of the time.. in hindsight aligning to just one AFL club didnt work.... but if done better it could have.

 

[BA81]

That would have been interesting I why how the idea of the Victory got off the ground assuming when the aleague started?

MV had its roots in the final year or so of Carlton SC’s existence; as I recall the VFL personality Phil Cleary(one of the few people I know of who’s never harboured ill-will towards ️) as well as Tony Ising were lobbying to revamp Carlton into that. It didn’t happen but the Victory moniker nonetheless caught on w/those who wanted to see a ‘broadbased’ Melb side representing the whole city someday..and that’s why it was chosen for the city’s winning A-League bid.

(Plus Archie Thompson played for both sides too, go figure)

 

[BA81]

I really thought that Carlton SC was going to be the "Victory" of the time.. in hindsight aligning to just one AFL club didnt work.... but if done better it could have.

I still believe it’s the way of the future, no matter how much those stubborn Neanderthal AFL zealots deign to bury their heads in the sand about it. Besides, it’s literally the norm worldwide: you obv know that Panathinaikos, Olympiakos etc. all field , handball sides etc. in addition to their ️ ones - but sadly it’s in the Anglophone world where it’s largely seen as this unworkable/invalid anomaly.

That said, the NFL/baseball franchises of & don’t ever need to field ️ teams of their own bc they’re already among the most recognisable sporting-brands worldwide & have been so since the end of WWII..

Something that can’t & won’t ever be able to be said of the traditional AFL clubs, even though ABBA were once papped wearing Carlton guernseys back in the day..

 

[Monoethnic Social Club]

MV had its roots in the final year or so of Carlton SC’s existence; as I recall the VFL personality Phil Cleary(one of the few people I know of who’s never harboured ill-will towards ️) as well as Tony Ising were lobbying to revamp Carlton into that. It didn’t happen but the Victory moniker nonetheless caught on w/those who wanted to see a ‘broadbased’ Melb side representing the whole city someday..and that’s why it was chosen for the city’s winning A-League bid.

(Plus Archie Thompson played for both sides too, go figure)

its not the ONLY reason why....

 

[Quicky]

I really thought that Carlton SC was going to be the "Victory" of the time.. in hindsight aligning to just one AFL club didnt work.... but if done better it could have.

Aligning with AFL clubs will never work. Didn't work for football or netball. It's been tried and failed.

 

[Monoethnic Social Club]

Aligning with AFL clubs will never work. Didn't work for football or netball. It's been tried and failed.

I agree, for whatever reason we just dont have that connection to our clubs here.... in any sport, let alone the capacity to identify with the one club so much that it becomes a part of our identity.... regardless of what is on the pitch and what sport is being played....

 

[Barca4life]

Aligning with AFL clubs will never work. Didn't work for football or netball. It's been tried and failed.

It's a shame because it might help ease the hostility to each other as well share knowledge and resources.

 

[Quicky]

I agree, for whatever reason we just dont have that connection to our clubs here.... in any sport, let alone the capacity to identify with the one club so much that it becomes a part of our identity.... regardless of what is on the pitch and what sport is being played....

I think they do in AFL. But it's limited to the AFL teams. Collingwood recently dropped their netball team. There was a lot of resentment from many in the supporter base at the expense of running the team. That the resources should be put into the AFL program or otherwise invested in business or philanthropic interests. This caused issues at a board level. It's too myopic and insular.

 

[Quicky]

It's a shame because it might help ease the hostility to each other as well share knowledge and resources.

I don't think it would ever really be accepted. There's a lot to it, I described some above, but it's also an attitude by many AFL supporters towards football.

 

[Monoethnic Social Club]

I think they do in AFL. But it's limited to the AFL teams. Collingwood recently dropped their netball team. There was a lot of resentment from many in the supporter base at the expense of running the team. That the resources should be put into the AFL program or otherwise invested in business or philanthropic interests. This caused issues at a board level. It's too myopic and insular.

Your right regarding AFL, It is the closest to any form of "tribalism" we have here... not sure if NRL fans are the same btw.... but the AFL club down here is a cradle to the grave sort of thing.

 

[LFC]

Yep the dna here can’t accept the concept.
Each code is an enemy how it’s been forged.

 

[BA81]

I don't think it would ever really be accepted. There's a lot to it, I described some above, but it's also an attitude by many AFL supporters towards football.

That’s the result of the cultural-indoctrination they’re typically subjected to since birth, alas

You occasionally hear in certain circles about how this has been changing already(in no small part due to the Tillies) but I maintain it’s just not happening at an ideal rate and furthermore, let’s be frank: in any conflict between and ️, 9/10 these come-lately bandwagoners will side w/the former with very little hesitation..