Straya Day

[Monoethnic Social Club]

Another example would be who's more patriotic? The person that wants the union jack off our flag or the blokes that think it's ok as it is.

The bloke who thinks we should go it alone or the bloke who thinks we need a foreign monarch as our head of state?

I think you will find that monarchists/royalists tend to be, in general, far more patriotic than republicans.

 

[BA81]

May 8th. M8 day.

Yeah nah.

 

[BA81]

I think you will find that monarchists/royalists tend to be, in general, far more patriotic than republicans.

Australian context or in general?

 

[Monoethnic Social Club]

How to miss the whole point!!!!!

Now if you had a holiday in Turkey celebrating the ANZACs attack. Or if England were forced to celebrate & have a national holiday on the 4th of July that would be more the point.
Or better still the Italians celebrating when the Germanic leader overthrew the last of the Roman emperors or the Greek celebrating the rise of the Macedonians & the rise of the Roman empire over Greek territories that finally saw the demise of the Greek empire.

And yet, every year, thousands of Australian and New Zealand tourists (regardless of colour or ethnic background) DO celebrate ANZAC day on the Gallipoli peninsular (a Greek name that the Turkish people have kindly named Anzac Cove in OUR honour.)... As for the "rise of the Macedonians?" hahahah what a moron you turned out to be... my condolences to your teachers in life.

 

[Monoethnic Social Club]

Australian context or in general?

both I guess.

 

[Muz]

Is it that hard to give them some respect for their culture & their history, give them some equality.
They don't want to take over, just a bit of equality.
I've travelled lots of Europe & just recently to Prague & London (been many times) & marvel at their great history.
I've travelled to northern Terrority & north West Western Australia & seen some great history there, but do we celebrate it?

Yeah it's amazing the lack of respect. I was in Sardinia looking at these 3000 year old ruins of a peoples that no longer exist and it was a UNESCO site and they made a huge deal about it and how proud they were of it.

Meanwhile we have petroglyphs in the Kimberly that are are 40 000 years old or more and no one gives a fuck. The cave paintings in Lascaux France are only 12 000 years old.

The pyramids are 5000 years old and are world renowned. In Brewarrina there are fish traps that are 40 thousands years old. Who cares amirite?

That's not to say these other sites aren't impressive or important but it's the complete lack of any sort of recognition about this stuff in Australia by Australians that's weird.

I have a theory that people don't want to admire them because to do so would put them on an equal footing to us fellas and that would mean they didn't deserve their mistreatment. (Mistreatment putting it mildly.)

Much easier to think of them as stone age savages that needed to be dragged into the 'civilised' world.

 

[RIMB]

Some rambling thoughts that do not deserve their own thread in a football forum, but do not warrant the railroading of the 'Happy Australia Day' premise either.
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I was born here, and this is my country.

It bothers me when people whose ancestors were born here long before me tell me that this is not my land because they were here first. That should not be how the world works.

If you are born in a country or are accepted by the country as a citizen, then you should be an equal within that country.

It is a basic principle but it is how I think it should be.

To me, loving my country and wanting the best for it is patriotism.
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If you asked the local residents back when Cook popped in if it was alright if we lived on the land too I am wondering if the humanity of people would have produced the answer - live and share in peace.

By peace, I mean the tribal opposition type of peace where stealing a wife from another tribe and getting her away meant she was now part of her new tribe and all parties agreed that was a good result (no doubt for genetic purposes). The women were treated with the same respect as the original tribe because they knew their own daughters would possibly end up the same in another tribe.

Hunting on another's lands without permission was a reason to fight, but otherwise groups could live and co-exist.

The way of life has been lost, as it has been in most 'civilised' countries when the preference for shop bought survival replaces natural survival. When that happens, to me the tribal hunting grounds cease to have their same purpose and the rights to the land become just financial and power focussed more than need.

I do not agree with gates on beach access in the Eastern coastal region of Australia. The need to exclude people to protect a limited food source required for survival is no longer a factor - so the gates are a tool of greed or malice - and it is just another wedge between peoples.

I agree that from the hearsay I accept as truth, most normal minded indigenous people just want equality, acceptance and recognition of culture rather than exclusive access and restriction in their favour. They do not want to be separated by anything - either positive or negative - just all to be part of the one.

Tribal history and violence aside, to live with the land and each other was a basic life principle with concepts like war being counterproductive and counter intuitive to life.
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The traditional ownership of places is a political game - to the extent that Canberra was 'awarded' to the loudest indigenous group rather than the actual traditional owners at the time.

Uluru was claimed to be sacred all over - but the local indigenous people told a member of my family years ago that the group claiming Uluru and its sacredness was from across the WA border and they had waited until the old Singer of Songs from the original tribe died before they moved in and made noises about ownership and exclusion.

The locals said that the top of the rock was never a sacred place. There was no food, water or shelter there - it was just the top of the rock. All the sacred places were around the base.

None of that is talking about someone actually 'owning' the land originally - just that political motivations have been involved in the granting of land and I think that will always be the case. Not necessarily actual fairness and traditional ownership being the factor.

For indigenous membership I have always struggled with the 1/32 being considered indigenous to receive benefits. In effect, 31 of your ancestors may have been the bastards doing bad things to indigneous people but the 1 grants you full rights to financial support despite 31 parts of you not deserving it.

I am not saying it is wrong - just I do not understand the 'fairness' of that.
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As an unsupported anecdote, I thought it hilarious to the point of crying that some politically driven social justice group decided to put the naysayers to the sword by conducting DNA testing to prove the local Tasmanian indigenous population was not such a minority (almost to the mythical extent). The results showed so many people claiming indigenous heritage and benefits who were of South East Asian extraction and other brown skinned cultures and not in any way indigenous to Australia that they shut up shop and scrapped their plans for a national program of testing.

I know it smacks of yellow stars, but to prove actual indigenous heritage to receive benefits is invasive but it would do something in my head to make it at least legitimate to receive benefits for people not actually living in an indigenous community. The abuse by so many to receive Government funded financial benefits justifies the testing for me where they are not living in an indigenous community. We have to prove our right to claim everything else - this should be no different especially with the amount of money spent and being spent that is not getting where it needs to be and doing what it really could do.
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My only solution is for the Government to buy the land that is not actually necessary for survival or traditional practices, taking into account some portion of money previously paid, and Australia becomes Australia in all eyes.

Grant every indigenous person a million dollars as of a specific date (or whatever amount works) and the land ownership is sorted. Continuing to pay year after year (renting the country) is not an option for resolution.

As a person born here (or a person accepted by Citizenship) this is my country - I am not a tenant.

 

[RIMB]

America will never make destruction of the American flag an offence because serial killers will get tattoos to avoid the death sentence.

 

[Robbos]

And yet, every year, thousands of Australian and New Zealand tourists (regardless of colour or ethnic background) DO celebrate ANZAC day on the Gallipoli peninsular (a Greek name that the Turkish people have kindly named Anzac Cove in OUR honour.)... As for the "rise of the Macedonians?" hahahah what a moron you turned out to be... my condolences to your teachers in life.

I've been to Gallipoli. Big difference to allow ANZ tourists to celebrate a great battle to having your national day being the day of invasion into your country.
Love I hit a nerve, didn't study Greek History at school, too busy studying Aboriginal history, it was my Macedonian friend who provided that information to me, so no need to blame my schoolteachers.

 

[BA81]

Yeah it's amazing the lack of respect. I was in Sardinia looking at these 3000 year old ruins of a peoples that no longer exist and it was a UNESCO site and they made a huge deal about it and how proud they were of it.

Meanwhile we have petroglyphs in the Kimberly that are are 40 000 years old or more and no one gives a fuck. The cave paintings in Lascaux France are only 12 000 years old.

The pyramids are 5000 years old and are world renowned. In Brewarrina there are fish traps that are 40 thousands years old. Who cares amirite?

That's not to say these other sites aren't impressive or important but it's the complete lack of any sort of recognition about this stuff in Australia by Australians that's weird.

I have a theory that people don't want to admire them because to do so would put them on an equal footing to us fellas and that would mean they didn't deserve their mistreatment. (Mistreatment putting it mildly.)

Much easier to think of them as stone age savages that needed to be dragged into the 'civilised' world.

Or a superior footing, in the eyes of some.

 

[BA81]

both I guess.

Both, really?

I ask bc in light of the defunct Greek monarchy, quite a few on SokkahTwitter were mocking King Constantine upon his death a couple of years ago calling him a cvnt among other things..

 

[Monoethnic Social Club]

I've been to Gallipoli. Big difference to allow ANZ tourists to celebrate a great battle to having your national day being the day of invasion into your country.
Love I hit a nerve, didn't study Greek History at school, too busy studying Aboriginal history, it was my Macedonian friend who provided that information to me, so no need to blame my schoolteachers.

No nerve, you just proved who you are... good day.

 

[Monoethnic Social Club]

Both, really?

Well, all I can speak of is from personal conversations and anecdotal. in most European countries, people I speak to with royalist leanings tend to be fiercely patriotic to their country.. I am lead to believe that is the same in many Asian countries like Malaysia and Thailand (please correct me if Im wrong).

As for Australia, most monarchists I have chatted top tend to be elder anglo Australians who are, in teh main, very patritotic about Australia and the Commonwealth.

 

[Monoethnic Social Club]

Both, really?

I ask bc in light of the defunct Greek monarchy, quite a few on SokkahTwitter were mocking King Constantine upon his death a couple of years ago calling him a cvnt among other things..

Those parasites were NEVER Greek good riddance to the whole lot of them..

BUT most royalist sympathisers in Greece (there is still a small vocal minority who pine for the days when a German family got to Cosplay as Byzantines) to this day are the fiercest of nationalists...

 

[RIMB]

Yeah it's amazing the lack of respect. I was in Sardinia looking at these 3000 year old ruins of a peoples that no longer exist and it was a UNESCO site and they made a huge deal about it and how proud they were of it.

Meanwhile we have petroglyphs in the Kimberly that are are 40 000 years old or more and no one gives a fuck. The cave paintings in Lascaux France are only 12 000 years old.

The pyramids are 5000 years old and are world renowned. In Brewarrina there are fish traps that are 40 thousands years old. Who cares amirite?

That's not to say these other sites aren't impressive or important but it's the complete lack of any sort of recognition about this stuff in Australia by Australians that's weird.

I have a theory that people don't want to admire them because to do so would put them on an equal footing to us fellas and that would mean they didn't deserve their mistreatment. (Mistreatment putting it mildly.)

Much easier to think of them as stone age savages that needed to be dragged into the 'civilised' world.

I think there is an element of ours (that's how I think of them) being sacred and also too bloody hard to visit on a commercial basis.

Nobody, outside those who make money from it, wants busloads of tourists with cameras tramping through traditional grounds to take photos, and the infrastructure probably isn't there to get to them anyway.

Makes a difference if you can't get there and can only see photos in our jet setting world.

Maybe I'm wrong, having never considered going to see them myself. But then, I don't have a desire to see the other countries' cave paintings either.

I agree we do not consider them with the same level of respect as other ancient sites.

Part of that is that the 'great' ancient sites involve man overcoming nature and physics to build magnificent edifices. It is the very nature of our indigenous culture NOT to make their mark on the land that prevents them being seen in any awe.

 

[Monoethnic Social Club]

I think there is an element of ours (that's how I think of them) being sacred and also too bloody hard to visit on a commercial basis.

Nobody, outside those who make money from it, wants busloads of tourists with cameras tramping through traditional grounds to take photos, and the infrastructure probably isn't there to get to them anyway.

Makes a difference if you can't get there and can only see photos in our jet setting world.

Maybe I'm wrong, having never considered going to see them myself. But then, I don't have a desire to see the other countries' cave paintings either.

I agree we do not consider them with the same level of respect as other ancient sites.

Part of that is that the 'great' ancient sites involve man overcoming nature and physics to build magnificent edifices. It is the very nature of our indigenous culture NOT to make their mark on the land that prevents them being seen in any awe.

Also doesnt help that they never wrote anything down.. Not saying cave paintings arent interesting but its hard to get enthused about something so lacking in ambition.

 

[Robbos]

I agree we do not consider them with the same level of respect as other ancient sites.

This is the main issue, it doesn't get the respect.

I like you was not into the cave paintings, until I was actually there & you listen to the stories of what it means & how old the paintings are & how they can tell how old they are, then you become totally in awe.

 

[Robbos]

Also doesnt help that they never wrote anything down.. Not saying cave paintings arent interesting but its hard to get enthused about something so lacking in ambition.

That explains you more than anything else.

 

[Monoethnic Social Club]

That explains you more than anything else.

I wish one day that I too can share your touching spiritual awaking in the caves of NT.. I can just picture you now, little cargo shorts, white socks and crocs, sitting cross-legged in the dirt, hammies screaming, with a few smudges of ochre on your cheeks and trying desperately to swallow the handful of berries and grubs you've been force fed.... totally in awe with stories of rainbow serpents ...

This is the main issue, it doesn't get the respect.

I like you was not into the cave paintings, until I was actually there & you listen to the stories of what it means & how old the paintings are & how they can tell how old they are, then you become totally in awe.

 

[Muz]

I think you may have unwittingly stumbled across a untapped ( pun ) love doll market. I had a Yank call me a kangaroo fucker once.

I wish one day that I too can share your touching spiritual awaking in the caves of NT.. I can just picture you now, little cargo shorts, white socks and crocs, sitting cross-legged in the dirt, hammies screaming, with a few smudges of ochre on your cheeks and trying desperately to swallow the handful of berries and grubs you've been force fed.... totally in awe with stories of rainbow serpents ...

You really are starting to show your complete disdain for aboriginal culture.

Why is a story about a mythical creature any less valid about anything from the old testament that's treated with reverence? Like Noah's ark for example?

Its not your go but why do you need to disparage it?

And BTW the fish traps predate the pyramids by 35000 years and are a feat of engineering way in excess of stacking blocks. But to accept this means having to accept they weren't stone age barbarians.