Welcome!

By registering with us, you'll be able to discuss, share and private message with other members of our community.

Sign Up Now!

Past Socceroos Chat

Kitwally said:
But he didn’t play for another country’s senior team. And as LFC said, in those days clubs played hardball with releasing players. And there are stories, not sure if true or not, that players sometimes paid for their own flights, that’s how broke and poorly run Soccer Australia was. Simunic and others actively turned the back on Aus and played for other national teams, completely different situation.
Click to expand...
Yep Thanks to support my pov - sorry NCB it just doesn't apply to CJ imo.
Viera ? where is the dual national - he's Italian clear as day.
Dorigo - well that one is more complicated But no one counts him in any discussions but that we lost him way back then And might I add as mentioned the hard heads Clubs were back in those days confirmed my other point to Grazor.
Check below from Dorigo's wiki page :

Adelaide City
Aston Villa
Team
Aston Villa
Chelsea
Leeds United
Torino
Derby County
Stoke City
England U21
England B
England
[th]Youth career[/th]
[th]


[/th]
[th]
1981–1984

[/th]
[th]Senior career*[/th]
[th]
Years

[/th]
[td]
Apps

[/td][td]
(Gls)

[/td]​
[th]
1984–1987

[/th]
[td]
111

[/td][td]
(2)

[/td]​
[th]
1987–1991

[/th]
[td]
146

[/td][td]
(11)

[/td]​
[th]
1991–1997

[/th]
[td]
171

[/td][td]
(6)

[/td]​
[th]
1997–1998

[/th]
[td]
30

[/td][td]
(2)

[/td]​
[th]
1998–2000

[/th]
[td]
41

[/td][td]
(1)

[/td]​
[th]
2000–2001

[/th]
[td]
36

[/td][td]
(0)

[/td]​
[th]
Total

[/th]
[td]
535

[/td][td]
(20)

[/td]​
[th]International career[/th]
[th]
1986–1988

[/th]
[td]
11

[/td][td]
(0)

[/td]​
[th]
1989–1992

[/th]
[td]
7

[/td][td]
(0)

[/td]​
[th]
1989–1993

[/th]
[td]
15

[/td][td]
(0

[/td]​


Dorigo was initially called up by Australia for the 1986 World Cup qualifying campaign. However Aston Villa manager Tony Barton refused Dorigo permission to travel.<a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tony_Dorigo#cite_note-fft-3"><span>[</span>3<span>]</span></a><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tony_Dorigo#cite_note-8"><span>[</span>8<span>]</span></a> Barton felt that playing for Australia would be a waste of time for Dorigo as their opponents were generally weaker opposition from Oceania.<a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tony_Dorigo#cite_note-fft-3"><span>[</span>3<span>]</span></a>

The Football Association approached Dorigo to represent England: "England came along and asked me to play for them if I hung around for another year and got my British citizenship," says Dorigo. "My father was Italian and my mother was Australian, so I have no English parentage at all. What I say to my English friends today is that 'you lot were so bad you needed an Aussie to come and play for you!' It was very different back then to what it is now – the players in the Premier League today fly all over the world to play for their countries. They just did not allow that to happen in my day."<a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tony_Dorigo#cite_note-fft-3"><span>[</span>3<span>]</span></a>

Dorigo later made seven appearances for the England B team and 11 for the England under-21s before going to earn 15 England caps. He made his debut in 1989 against Yugoslavia. A year earlier he was a surprise inclusion in the squad for the European Championships as cover for Kenny Sansom, after regular deputy Stuart Pearce withdrew through injury. Dorigo was also part of the 1990 World Cup squad. He played in the third place play-off defeat to hosts Italy, providing the cross for David Platt to score the equaliser; England eventually lost the match 2–1, however

++ So - 3Lions Snr games. no dual National - CJ wasn't a Dual National, Vieri is Italian NO dual National

Kitwally - yes SA was lacking funds and many paid their way at times - copped fines from the clubs from memory as well.
 
NicCarBel said:
I still stand by what I said. If we are counting him, then we should be counting other dual nationals that didn't play for Australia (Vieri, Simunic, Dorigo, etc)
It's not as if he wasn't selected. He actively chose not to play for Australia.
Click to expand...
This is why I can’t count him as an Aussie even though he was playing in an era when Aussies were forced not to play for the Roos. A great player from Australia/South Africa, absolutely, but not a great Australian/South Africa player.
 
Last edited:
HonestSpursFan said:
This is why I can’t count him as an Aussie even though he was playing in an era when Aussies were forced not to play for the Roos. A great player from Australia/South Africa, absolutely, but not a great Australian/South Africa player.
Click to expand...
Of course he is an Aussie. What nationality do you class him as?
 
LFC said:
Yep Thanks to support my pov - sorry NCB it just doesn't apply to CJ imo.
Viera ? where is the dual national - he's Italian clear as day.
Vieri is Italian NO dual National
Click to expand...
Vieri was very much eligible to play for Australia should he have chosen to - he held Australian citizenship and even cited Allan Border as his childhood hero during the 1998 World Cup (and of course, his brother ended up playing for Australia).

I personally wouldn't count him as Australian either, but - as I said, I wouldn't count Johnston either (and all the others - but to me, you count one, you count them all)
 
Ok I’ll agree to disagree.
Yes Veira luved cricket and I know AB was an idol - there is no where saying he had citizenship but that he lived here obviously.
Hey I would have luved play for us same re Johnston and his times abroad being the trail blazer was far diff than the latter and others.
 
HonestSpursFan said:
Per FIFA he was English in the same way that players like Martin Boyle, Fran Karačić and Ante Šuto are considered Aussie by FIFA.
Click to expand...
He was eligible to play for England in football, but that doesn't preclude him from being Australian in every other sense. I would be pretty certain that he still holds an Australian passport. Born to Australian parents (albeit in South Africa), lived in Australia from an early age and played all his junior football in Australia. I class him as an Australian player.
 
Keeper66 said:
He was eligible to play for England in football, but that doesn't preclude him from being Australian in every other sense. I would be pretty certain that he still holds an Australian passport. Born to Australian parents (albeit in South Africa), lived in Australia from an early age and played all his junior football in Australia. I class him as an Australian player.
Click to expand...
Like I said, guess that means Christian Vieri is too. He was eligible to play for Italy, probably held or holds an Australian passport/citizenship (based off this article back in 2002 suggesting there was talks of him playing Joeys - https://www.theage.com.au/sport/soc...-vieri-made-in-australia-20020608-gdua6d.html), lived in Australia at an early age, and played most of his junior football in Australia.
 
NicCarBel said:
Like I said, guess that means Christian Vieri is too. He was eligible to play for Italy, probably held or holds an Australian passport/citizenship (based off this article back in 2002 suggesting there was talks of him playing Joeys - https://www.theage.com.au/sport/soc...-vieri-made-in-australia-20020608-gdua6d.html), lived in Australia at an early age, and played most of his junior football in Australia.
Click to expand...
Some similarities with Johnston, although I consider Vieri to be an Italian born in Italy to an Italian father, lived in Australia after his father relocated to Australia for football (work purposes) but returned to Italy to progress his football. A little bit different to Johnston who wasn't born English and returning to England.
Ultimately, everyone can have their own opinion on it (an individual's nationality), and my opinion is obviously different to yours. However the most important opinion is probably that of the person themselves. I obviously can't speak for them, but I suspect if asked Vieri would say he is Italian and Johnston would say he is Australian.
 
Keeper66 said:
Some similarities with Johnston, although I consider Vieri to be an Italian born in Italy to an Italian father, lived in Australia after his father relocated to Australia for football (work purposes) but returned to Italy to progress his football. A little bit different to Johnston who wasn't born English and returning to England.
Ultimately, everyone can have their own opinion on it (an individual's nationality), and my opinion is obviously different to yours. However the most important opinion is probably that of the person themselves. I obviously can't speak for them, but I suspect if asked Vieri would say he is Italian and Johnston would say he is Australian.
Click to expand...
So is Josip Šimunić an Aussie or a Croat?
 
HonestSpursFan said:
So is Josip Šimunić an Aussie or a Croat?
Click to expand...
My opinion? Not an easy one, but based on the everything I know about him, on balance I consider him Croatian. Again, his opinion is the most important, and I don't know what he would say.

I don't think there is a set formula (e.g., where born, parentage, time spent in Australia, where living now, etc) to determine whether someone is Australian or another nationality. It is more nuanced than that. In any case, my opinion is not necessarily the same as yours and there is nothing wrong with that.
 
Keeper66 said:
My opinion? Not an easy one, but based on the everything I know about him, on balance I consider him Croatian. Again, his opinion is the most important, and I don't know what he would say.

I don't think there is a set formula (e.g., where born, parentage, time spent in Australia, where living now, etc) to determine whether someone is Australian or another nationality. It is more nuanced than that. In any case, my opinion is not necessarily the same as yours and there is nothing wrong with that.
Click to expand...
But Christian Karembeu is New Caledonian surely? A Kanak born in Lifou, he played for Les Bleus since New Cal weren’t a FIFA member till 2004.
 
NicCarBel said:
Vieri was very much eligible to play for Australia should he have chosen to - he held Australian citizenship and even cited Allan Border as his childhood hero during the 1998 World Cup (and of course, his brother ended up playing for Australia).

I personally wouldn't count him as Australian either, but - as I said, I wouldn't count Johnston either (and all the others - but to me, you count one, you count them all)
Click to expand...
When Vieri moved back to Italy as a teenager he setup cricket games with his mates at school and tried to teach the other kids how to play. These lists are fun but stupid. Because there is no criteria so everyone just interprets it however they feel then get into arguments about it talking about completely different contexts.

I actually think the Vieri case matches onto the Volpato case pretty nicely. We have progressed as a football nation since Vieri, but the Eurosnob, better than us attitude is still real. They are both Aussies, if they were in a backpackers hostel everyone would think they were Aussie. But they only ever want to be Italian in a football context.

I treat these lists as I do dual nationals. If you play for us you are Aussie, if you don't you're not. In a football context, because I don't care about any of these blokes outside of that.
 
Cunningstunt said:
When Vieri moved back to Italy as a teenager he setup cricket games with his mates at school and tried to teach the other kids how to play. These lists are fun but stupid. Because there is no criteria so everyone just interprets it however they feel then get into arguments about it talking about completely different contexts.

I actually think the Vieri case matches onto the Volpato case pretty nicely. We have progressed as a football nation since Vieri, but the Eurosnob, better than us attitude is still real. They are both Aussies, if they were in a backpackers hostel everyone would think they were Aussie. But they only ever want to be Italian in a football context.

I treat these lists as I do dual nationals. If you play for us you are Aussie, if you don't you're not. In a football context, because I don't care about any of these blokes outside of that.
Click to expand...

I think the football context and identity outside of football are getting conflated. I don't think for a second that Segecic or Triantis aren't actually Australian outside of football because they represent Croatia or Greece. They're both.

It's dangerous when this becomes the attitude. It just leads to othering and hate. They're kids ffs. They had to pick someone and they were damned if they do, damned if they don't.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top