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Monoethnic Social Club said:
Thats just NOT true... "bricks and mortar" investment isnt something dreamt up in the 90s. My parents generation were competing against property developers buying inner suburbs blocks and tearing them down to built dog box flats as Im sure the generation before them was competing against the "aristocracy" of the time... way back to squatters days, it's always been a struggle, and the "competition" was never fair.

The fact that property has appreciated as an asset doesn't take away from the fact that it has ALWAYS been an asset.
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Correct. Also remember that negative gearing has been a thing for many, many years, and that capital gains were tax-free prior to 20 September 1985. So residential property investment has always been open to people, and in fact was even more attractive at one time from a CGT perspective.

What has changed in recent times has been the dwindling supply. And I agree that because of that dwindling supply, some regulatory changes may be needed to address the supply. But property investors per se aren't the baddies here.
 
Keeper66 said:
Correct. Also remember that negative gearing has been a thing for many, many years, and that capital gains were tax-free prior to 20 September 1985. So residential property investment has always been open to people, and in fact was even more attractive at one time from a CGT perspective.

What has changed in recent times has been the dwindling supply. And I agree that because of that dwindling supply, some regulatory changes may be needed to address the supply. But property investors per se aren't the baddies here.
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BINGO !
 
Jetsfan said:
Ban short term rentals, 35000 homes back on the market overnight, just in NSW
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They'd just tenant them out. They're not going to sell them.

Nobody anywhere in the world is seriously considering banning short term rentals anyway. The closest they've come is to limit them.
 
Muz said:
They'd just tenant them out. They're not going to sell them.

Nobody anywhere in the world is seriously considering banning short term rentals anyway. The closest they've come is to limit them.
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Thats still 35 thousand migrant families in NSW that all of a sudden have a place to rent until they can earn their share of the Australian dream. Rent will instantaneously HAVE to go down...

If you are looking at someone to hate my well meaning friend may I suggest target your wrath towards Air B n B, Uber and those inane delivery services like Door Dash and the like..... Not to mention Amazon and Temu and that new crap shoot Chinese thing that opeend in France thsi week... can't remember the name.
 
Monoethnic Social Club said:
Thats still 35 thousand migrant families in NSW that all of a sudden have a place to rent until they can earn their share of the Australian dream. Rent will instantaneously HAVE to go down...

If you are looking at someone to hate my well meaning friend may I suggest target your wrath towards Air B n B, Uber and those inane delivery services like Door Dash and the like..... Not to mention Amazon and Temu and that new crap shoot Chinese thing that opeend in France thsi week... can't remember the name.
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Another challenge is ownership of property and leaving it empty. It appears Victoria has provisions against domestic owners but it probably doesn't go far enough. People should retain the right to be free with their property but the shackles of the current system should be released. Remove all the cushy provisions for investing, ban short term rentals and have people actually commit to the same regulations that hotels must, find ways to eradicate properties sitting empty.

It depends on the stage of life and circumstances. Some people would like to rent. Imagine if all those apartments sitting empty in foreign portfolios were opened up for rental. This is a starting point for adding supply while building more in the meantime.

Yet there lies the biggest issue. Who has the capital and risk appetite to build more? Developers won't build unless they can have a tidy profit. The government certainly isn't going to foot the bill. Developers are greedy and want bigger margins. A steady income stream through sustainable rent isn't attractive.
 
I had an Indian taxi driver bring me home from the City the other night. He was telling me that his 2 bed townhouse rent in Wynum in Brisbane's Bayside had gone from $380 to 700 per week in 3 years....

He was hoping to buy a place but reckoned there's absolutely no chance on a taxi driver's wage. He has a young wife and a kid on the way!! It's certainly very hard for migrants coming to Australia these days to get ahead and buy property.

He was actually a very nice guy, very well spoken and very friendly....

I was in the way home from a jazz club in town. He said he was a jazz fan too and played the trumpet!!....we had a good chat about Miles Davis and James Morrison.
 
Football us life said:
I had an Indian taxi driver bring me home from the City the other night. He was telling me that his 2 bed townhouse rent in Wynum in Brisbane's Bayside had gone from $380 to 700 per week in 3 years....

He was hoping to buy a place but reckoned there's absolutely no chance on a taxi driver's wage. He has a young wife and a kid on the way!! It's certainly very hard for migrants coming to Australia these days to get ahead and buy property.

He was actually a very nice guy, very well spoken and very friendly....

I was in the way home from a jazz club in town. He said he was a jazz fan too and played the trumpet!!....we had a good chat about Miles Davis and James Morrison.
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That's the understandable allure of property right now that it increases equity and leverage. I think it's helpful for the average person but has also created more monopolizers.

In turn it's off the back of jacking up rents and setting up multiple income streams. Governments are too scared to flip the script to lose votes. Imagine the look on the greedy faces when they realise they can't just live off other people anymore. Migration also needs a cooling off. Something of a buffer and reassessment. I do hope your driver is training for something else. We need a culture shift like in WW2 when women drove cabs in that locals do take such work instead of making it a migrant job.
 
Monoethnic Social Club said:
Thats still 35 thousand migrant families in NSW that all of a sudden have a place to rent until they can earn their share of the Australian dream. Rent will instantaneously HAVE to go down...

If you are looking at someone to hate my well meaning friend may I suggest target your wrath towards Air B n B, Uber and those inane delivery services like Door Dash and the like..... Not to mention Amazon and Temu and that new crap shoot Chinese thing that opeend in France thsi week... can't remember the name.
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Sure Airbnb is the problem not a bloke with 10 houses.

Why would they go down? I've got a mate who's a valuer. He said there's not rental crisis, there's an affordable rental crisis.

There's plenty of people happy to wait for a seperate tenant to take up their offer.

There's 8 million NSW residents. 2 million of them rent. 35 000 is 1.75% of 2 million. Freeing up all those homes, which are owned by investors remember, would do fuck all.

But yeah keep blaming Airbnb rather than people using housing as an investment vehicle.
 
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JS96 said:
That's the understandable allure of property right now that it increases equity and leverage. I think it's helpful for the average person but has also created more monopolizers.

In turn it's off the back of jacking up rents and setting up multiple income streams. Governments are too scared to flip the script to lose votes. Imagine the look on the greedy faces when they realise they can't just live off other people anymore. Migration also needs a cooling off. Something of a buffer and reassessment. I do hope your driver is training for something else. We need a culture shift like in WW2 when women drove cabs in that locals do take such work instead of making it a migrant job.
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Sure reduce immigration but the problem is there's 10 jobs for every 8 people. How are you going to address that?
 
Muz said:
Sure reduce immigration but the problem is there's 10 jobs for every 8 people. How are you going to address that?
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Organic growth with the local birth rate which would be supported by affordable housing. What a novel idea.

Many of these jobs are just gigs that don't help anyone except the big companies that harbour them. We don't need über drivers from abroad.
 
Muz said:
Sure Airbnb is the problem not a bloke with 10 houses.

Why would the go down? I've got a mate who's a valuer. He said there's not rental crisis, there's an affordable rental crisis.

There's plenty of people happy to wait for a seperate tenant to take up their offer.

There's 8 million NSW residents. 2 million of them rent. 35 000 is 1.75% of 2 million. Freeing up all those homes, which are owned by investors remember, would do fuck all.

But yeah keep blaming Airbnb rather than people using housing and an investment vehicle.
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Hoarding surely smashes the airbnb part. Airbnb is an issue but those homes being in the hands of a single person gives them a lot of leverage and the lack of tenancy laws just gives them power to wield.
 
JS96 said:
That's the understandable allure of property right now that it increases equity and leverage. I think it's helpful for the average person but has also created more monopolizers.

In turn it's off the back of jacking up rents and setting up multiple income streams. Governments are too scared to flip the script to lose votes. Imagine the look on the greedy faces when they realise they can't just live off other people anymore. Migration also needs a cooling off. Something of a buffer and reassessment. I do hope your driver is training for something else. We need a culture shift like in WW2 when women drove cabs in that locals do take such work instead of making it a migrant job.
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I'd hazard a guess that taxi driving and uber, both rideshare and food delivery are predominantly migrant occupations in Australia these days...

Most Sunday nights for the last few years I've been getting paella door-dashed from a local Spanish restaurant and it's almost guaranteed to be delivered by what you might call a non Australian....

Paella and a few San Miguel's is a Sunday night tradition in my house!!

Whenever I hear people whinge about mass-migration I always think to myself....who the fark is gonna be delivering my Paella on Sunday nights if there's no migration??

Selfish I know but that Paella is to die for....😋
 
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Football us life said:
I'd hazard a guess that taxi driving and uber, both rideshare and food delivery is a predominantly migrant occupations in Australia these days...

Most Sunday nights for the last few years I've been getting paella door-dashed from a local Spanish restaurant and it's almost guaranteed to be delivered by what you might call a non Australian....

Paella and a few San Miguel's is a Sunday night tradition in my house!!

Whenever I hear people whinge about mass-migration I always think to myself....who the fark is gonna be delivering my Paella on Sunday nights if there's no migration??

Selfish I know but that Paella is to die for....😋
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I know what you mean but who did all this in the past? It was the locals, teenagers, students. Remember Doug the pizza guy?

If the person is studying in Australia or aims to train up then it's fine they're working. Moving to Australia just to do that work shouldn't happen. I know in turn it'll affect their living standards immensely and at least they are working. It still just adds more pressure on everything and serves the big gig app companies.

What's changed? With all this tech we've become even more time poor and convenienced by having another group of society take care of all our services. People just can't see themselves doing such work and the list of such occupations is growing.
 
Muz said:
Depends if you think housing is a fundamental human right or an investment vehicle to build wealth while dooming a whole generation to not being able to afford a home.
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Housing is not a fundamental human right. It's something that either you provide for yourself or society helps you with. Just like food is.
 
JS96 said:
I know what you mean but who did all this in the past? It was the locals, teenagers, students. Remember Doug the pizza guy?

If the person is studying in Australia or aims to train up then it's fine they're working. Moving to Australia just to do that work shouldn't happen. I know in turn it'll affect their living standards immensely and at least they are working. It still just adds more pressure on everything and serves the big gig app companies.

What's changed? With all this tech we've become even more time poor and convenienced by having another group of society take care of all our services. People just can't see themselves doing such work and the list of such occupations is growing.
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My guess is a lot of these gig workers will come into Australia on either study, some kind of skilled work visa or the refugee process.....

There's always stories about skilled workers who getbto Australia and can't get jobs when they get here. So they drive a taxi, a rideshare or deliver food. Or maybe they're a student doing 15 hours of study and joining the gig economy to.make ends meet...

Or they're working in a regular job but doing rhe gig stuff as a way of earning extra dough.

Or they've been through the refugee process and it's the only work they can get.

I'm pretty sure Australia doesn't hand out visa's just for gig workers.
 
Muz said:
The problem is of course the more homes you own the easier it is to buy other homes. Often you don't need a deposit.

So at an auction you have 20 cashed up investors vs 2 or 3 first home owners. They don't stand a chance.

At least when I was a a kid it was cheaper to rent than pay a mortgage. You could save the difference for the deposit to your own house.

Now, because no one can afford a home, rents are as high as a mortgage meaning (1) they're a great investment and (2) renters can't save a deposit trapping them in an endless cycle.
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Actually Muz housing is a poor investment and I would recommend other investments as providing better returns. Even though a considerable portion of my accumulated wealth is in property I wouldn't invest in more property these days as the rental returns don't cover the expenses. That means rents are relatively cheap in my eyes and renters are being subsidised by the owners. When I bought my first investment property it got a gross rental of 13%(I thought I got a bargain). My second purchase was around 7 years later with an 8% gross return (I thought I paid about market price). You are lucky to get 3% gross these days, and even if you don't have a mortgage that works out to around 1.5% net. It's also the most taxed form of investment with owners paying council rates to local govt, land tax to state govts and if there is anything left over income tax to the federal Govt. If you decide to sell and make a gain the Govt takes about 20% of that. I've read a few of your posts on this topic and realise you won't believe me because you have preset ideas.
 
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