Sutherlandbear said:

I never called for any league to be shut down, as I don’t see it as “ normal “ in the football world. What happened,happened, as I have said to Mono, you guys should have tried harder to stop it being shut down. That their never any signs of protests is on yourselves.

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Its a littel more nuanced than that.. Speaking to people invovled at the time, there was a belief that we would have been included in some capacity and it was pitched as a saviour of Australian football remeber? . The NSL, everyone could see, wasn't working and believe it or not, most clubs (yes even the big bad bogeyman wog ones) wanted soccer to flourish in this country....

southmelb said:

I'd be very surprised if tonights crowd wasnt easily bigger than sydney fc v Auckland last weekend. Considering the opposition had no supporters it was a solid turnout, OV is a very big ground.

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4k is the rumoured crowd

Sutherlandbear said:

Like we seen tonight, a lot of your clubs don’t have many fans, even your own club are getting less than 800 to league games.

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You are spot on there..... but 20 years in the state leagues tends to do that to a club..... Do you think Sydney FC would get 800 to a match if they weren't able to play in the ALeague and had to rely on their NPL side as the "face" of the club?

Barca4life said:

And right there is the main problem with Oz football, a fractured sport that’s never united.

Meanwhile the egg ball codes and cricket laugh how dumb football is.

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Yeah, you are right.. I'm anxious to count the thousands upon thosuands of Aleaguef ans what will get behind South Melbourne representing Australian in Oceania next year...

0x3mp1r3 said:

And a lot of these NPL clubs would be more profitable with 2-3k crowds compared to Brisbane roar getting 8-10k crowds.

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The problem with the A-League is the business model isn't very flexible.
The combination of the fully pro league, salary floor, reduced annual grant money and zero prize money means that clubs need solid revenue streams to offset the costs just to compete. Unless a club owned their venue, selling out a 3k ground each week simply isn't enough, even if the rent is cheap. They would need to have other revenue streams for it to be viable. International transfers are nice, but it's not always something that can be relied upon to occur every year. Local transfers aren't a thing. Off field options like social clubs and/or pokies then become vital for a club with a small venue. Although oversized stadiums is a problem for some A-League clubs, the business model itself is the root cause of this.

I haven’t been on here at all during the offseason, but you have to say that the whole Western United situation is very sad and terrible optics for the A-League.

A very promising idea has turned to shit. I think in hindsight the pandemic destroyed this club and their concept.

I know some people have been critical of them since day 1. Fair enough. And they ended up being right in the end. But none of us should be dancing on their grave. 1 defunct team is bad for the A-League and bad for Australian football. There is something like 40 players that need to find news clubs now... Many of them probably won't.

But anyway, we move on.

Back to 12 teams this season. If Canberra is admitted in time for next season, then I would be looking to replace Western United with Preston Lions to make it 14 teams. We can’t go into another season with an odd number of teams.

Lastly, Melbourne Victory would be derelict in their duties if they don’t make enquiries regarding taking over Ironbark Fields as a training/admin base and potentially a home ground for the women and youth teams. It seems to be a no brainer if a deal can be struck.

FeedTheBrox said:

I haven’t been on here at all during the offseason, but you have to say that the whole Western United situation is very sad and terrible optics for the A-League.

A very promising idea has turned to shit. I think in hindsight the pandemic destroyed this club and their concept.

I know some people have been critical of them since day 1. Fair enough. And they ended up being right in the end. But none of us should be dancing on their grave. 1 defunct team is bad for the A-League and bad for Australian football. There is something like 40 players that need to find news clubs now... Many of them probably won't.

But anyway, we move on.

Back to 12 teams this season. If Canberra is admitted in time for next season, then I would be looking to replace Western United with Preston Lions to make it 14 teams. We can’t go into another season with an odd number of teams.

Lastly, Melbourne Victory would be derelict in their duties if they don’t make enquiries regarding taking over Ironbark Fields as a training/admin base and potentially a home ground for the women and youth teams. It seems to be a no brainer if a deal can be struck.

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1) Why Preston specifically?

2) Our mutual Victory bias aside, it’d be better for all if FootballVIC took ownership of the facility to use as the West’s answer to the HOTM in Bundoora

someguyjc said:

The problem with their A-League is the business model isn't very flexible.
The combination of the fully pro league, salary floor, reduced annual grant money and zero prize money means that clubs need solid revenue streams to offset the costs just to compete. Unless a club owned their venue, selling out a 3k ground each week simply isn't enough, even if the rent is cheap. They would need to have other revenue streams for it to be viable. International transfers are nice, but it's not always something that can be relied upon to occur every year. Local transfers aren't a thing. Off field options like social clubs and/or pokies then become vital for a club with a small venue. Although oversized stadiums is a problem for some A-League clubs, the business model itself is the root cause of this.

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It needs to be changed ASAP to something more laissez-faire that enables its clubs to comfortably live within their means, but w/o impeding the ambitions of those clubs that do actively set about upgrading themselves. And in any case the price of license-fees must be brought down to relative peanuts for the good of all.

The A League is deflating like a leaking balloon. Something needs to happen to change the game. Otherwise it's death by a thousand tiny farts.

BA81 said:

It needs to be changed ASAP to something more laissez-faire that enables its clubs to comfortably live within their means, but w/o impeding the ambitions of those clubs that do actively set about upgrading themselves. And in any case the price of license-fees must be brought down to relative peanuts for the good of all.

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A professional football club in Australia at this time costs between anywhere between 5-15 million dollars per year to run with or without TV money or with or without license fees. There is no going back from the current state of fully professional clubs and the associated costs to some NPL club utopia league in which they would be paying state league level ground costs, player costs, insurance costs and the myriad of other expenses that professionalism entails. People are living in a fucking fantasy world if they think that is going to happen.

This is 5 million dollars per year, minimum. Can you sustain it? Can you support it? Can you generate the revenue? Do you want to be subject to the whim of being a part of the APL? Do you want to prop up failing clubs? Do you want to be subject to FA's requirements? Do you want TV money? Do you want to be subject to boradcaster requirements to run your club like every other professional club in major leagues? There is a double edged sword at play here.

Or do people want to be NPL semi professional forever and have some sort of smug self righteous aura. Time for people to decide what they want to be.

erogenouszone said:

A professional football club in Australia at this time costs between anywhere between 5-15 million dollars per year to run with or without TV money or with or without license fees. There is no going back from the current state of fully professional clubs and the associated costs to some NPL club utopia league in which they would be paying state league level ground costs, player costs, insurance costs and the myriad of other expenses that professionalism entails. People are living in a fucking fantasy world if they think that is going to happen.

This is 5 million dollars per year, minimum. Can you sustain it? Can you support it? Can you generate the revenue? Do you want to be subject to the whim of being a part of the APL? Do you want to prop up failing clubs? Do you want to be subject to FA's requirements? Do you want TV money? Do you want to be subject to boradcaster requirements to run your club like every other professional club in major leagues? There is a double edged sword at play here.

Or do people want to be NPL semi professional forever and have some sort of smug self righteous aura. Time for people to decide what they want to be.

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Why cant we have smug fully pro football without the 15 mill a year costs?

someguyjc said:

The problem with the A-League is the business model isn't very flexible.
The combination of the fully pro league, salary floor, reduced annual grant money and zero prize money means that clubs need solid revenue streams to offset the costs just to compete. Unless a club owned their venue, selling out a 3k ground each week simply isn't enough, even if the rent is cheap. They would need to have other revenue streams for it to be viable. International transfers are nice, but it's not always something that can be relied upon to occur every year. Local transfers aren't a thing. Off field options like social clubs and/or pokies then become vital for a club with a small venue. Although oversized stadiums is a problem for some A-League clubs, the business model itself is the root cause of this.

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From the outside the bigger issue with the Aleague isnt that the model isnt flexible, rather that it is indeed a business first model NOT football as we know it.... The halcyon days have come and gone, now it is going to have to whither through the lean years....

Monoethnic Social Club said:

Why cant we have smug fully pro football without the 15 mill a year costs?

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I'm sure you can convince the PFA to tell their members to accept less money, significantly less money.

BA81 said:

1) Why Preston specifically?

2) Our mutual Victory bias aside, it’d be better for all if FootballVIC took ownership of the facility to use as the West’s answer to the HOTM in Bundoora

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I suggest its because FDB feels that Preston would cannibalise the least amount of Victory supporters...

erogenouszone said:

I'm sure you can convince the PFA to tell their members to accept less money, significantly less money.

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Like getting blood out of a stone I agree... But at the rate it is going, natural attrition is going to do that, would the PFA prefer players NOT being paid for months or getting paid smaller amounts consistently?

FeedTheBrox said:

I haven’t been on here at all during the offseason, but you have to say that the whole Western United situation is very sad and terrible optics for the A-League.

A very promising idea has turned to shit. I think in hindsight the pandemic destroyed this club and their concept.

I know some people have been critical of them since day 1. Fair enough. And they ended up being right in the end. But none of us should be dancing on their grave. 1 defunct team is bad for the A-League and bad for Australian football. There is something like 40 players that need to find news clubs now... Many of them probably won't.

But anyway, we move on.

Back to 12 teams this season. If Canberra is admitted in time for next season, then I would be looking to replace Western United with Preston Lions to make it 14 teams. We can’t go into another season with an odd number of teams.

Lastly, Melbourne Victory would be derelict in their duties if they don’t make enquiries regarding taking over Ironbark Fields as a training/admin base and potentially a home ground for the women and youth teams. It seems to be a no brainer if a deal can be struck.

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We obviously disagree, the only silver linning is that the "club" DIDN'T build the stadium and sell of all the housing plots. I reckon they would have bailed the minute the paint was dry on the poorly built (have to build something to appease the council) shovel ready white elephant.

erogenouszone said:

I'm sure you can convince the PFA to tell their members to accept less money, significantly less money.

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The PFA really doesn't seem to have anything positive to offer.

Frankly Speaking said:

The PFA really doesn't seem to have anything positive to offer.

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oh look out the union delegates will keyhaul you hahaha
They have their place no doubt but typically become a stumbling block all in the name of the union.
I'll back out now

erogenouszone said:

A professional football club in Australia at this time costs between anywhere between 5-15 million dollars per year to run with or without TV money or with or without license fees. There is no going back from the current state of fully professional clubs and the associated costs to some NPL club utopia league in which they would be paying state league level ground costs, player costs, insurance costs and the myriad of other expenses that professionalism entails. People are living in a fucking fantasy world if they think that is going to happen.

This is 5 million dollars per year, minimum. Can you sustain it? Can you support it? Can you generate the revenue? Do you want to be subject to the whim of being a part of the APL? Do you want to prop up failing clubs? Do you want to be subject to FA's requirements? Do you want TV money? Do you want to be subject to boradcaster requirements to run your club like every other professional club in major leagues? There is a double edged sword at play here.

Or do people want to be NPL semi professional forever and have some sort of smug self righteous aura. Time for people to decide what they want to be.

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The NPL utopia league is the Championship ez.
Numbers have been crunched for years now so thats been done.
Its a start of the utopia league fingers crossed.
No different to any normal competition Club IF they can't sustain/support/revenue they get demoted, another comes into it once they have their act together - the FA have accessed many more Clubs.
NO, not any Club should be propped up when failing, go down down down, why should their lack of good Club management and loss's be passed onto Clubs who are running sufficiently.
A broadcaster has the power because the game here from the AL start done the deal with the devil with a blank canvass promising the world, AL/APL are at their mercy - they had to having sold expensive License's, forced into stadiums that near on used for Olympic standards, frigging great our game here was from the land paupers, suburban grounds, these AL owners with so much money that is nothing to them got sold pups, great selling job by you know who.

Yes I have no care about a business that is exclusive in a sport I luv, their system is what hangs them not the rest of the game.
The banished heart of the game can rise as long as it given its chance - fancy a entity having its foot on the neck of the actual product that is the games heart and soul.
I think its high time those supporting that side get the reality check what they are/have done to the game more than anything with their fellow administraitors.....
Sorry to offend some - thats the way I see it.