Punchanello said:

He did, however, learn to impose himself as he has matured.

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He has but he was the captain of Argentina. You probably more than anyone on this board would understand the expectations required to do that job.....

And people claiming that other players manage to behave with absolute dignity and grace under identical pressure. Really? Who?

Show me the global superstar carrying the weight of a football-obsessed nation of 40+ million people, absorbing the kind of cynical fouls Messi does, whilst playing under a relentless 20+-year media microscope, and barely, if ever ever snapping. That player does not exist, because elite athletes are human beings, not monks....

Pretending that a flawless, machine-like level of grace is the baseline expectation is completely divorced from reality!

Punchanello said:

True, and the fact is we love the blow-ups and big personalities and drama. Part of the joy of the game is the pantomime. Careers have been built on playing the villain, but that's not Messi, as you say.

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No....The sheer absurdity of his talent was enough to tell his story!

Football us life said:

I think that occasionally some people do like to impose their version of history on the rest of us. Sometimes they'll do this with good intentions in order to broaden the debate on a particular subject. And sometimes, well perhaps they just want to be a little bit controversial.....

And while Argentinian football has thrown up the odd 'cheeky chappy' over the years I'm not really convinced that the little fella is one of them!

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I'm not trying to impose or be controversial about anything. I've watched him his whole career. I am very much making my decision off observation and knowledge of him.

Plus, those who defend Messi, yet shit on Ronaldo for the exact same thing, kind of adds to the view of him.

zimbos05 said:

I'm not trying to impose or be controversial about anything. I've watched him his whole career. I am very much making my decision off observation and knowledge of him.

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I think he's been a great ambassador for the game.....

Football us life said:

I think he's been a great ambassador for the game.....

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And that's exactly what conversation is. We can have difference of opinion.

My view is that he is a phenomenal player who ranks as one of the best of all time, but still think as an individual, he doesn't carry himself well or set a great example.

zimbos05 said:

My view is that he is a phenomenal player who ranks as one of the best of all time, but still think as an individual, he doesn't carry himself well or set a great exexample

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Nah.....he sets a fantastic example....

Despite living under the most intense sports microscope on the planet since he was a teenager, he managed to avoid the kind of destructive off-field controversies that have derailed so many other generational talents.

Even with all the wealth, fame, and corporate machinery around modern football, whenever he stepped on the pitch, he always looked like a kid who just genuinely loved kicking a ball around with his friends.

And best of all....

He has inspired an entire generation of kids worldwide to play with joy, creativity, and humility rather than just physical dominance.

zimbos05 said:

I'm not trying to impose or be controversial about anything. I've watched him his whole career. I am very much making my decision off observation and knowledge of him.

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Yes we have all watched Messi's rise peaks to the finish.
So - you have dislikes of him from your observations at X times, do they outweigh the positives that much ?

zimbos05 said:

Plus, those who defend Messi, yet shit on Ronaldo for the exact same thing, kind of adds to the view of him.

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Am I reading clear that by those who admire Messi more but put CR7 down also influences your take on Messi ?

Football wise they both are amazing - personality wise chalk and cheese right ?

LFC said:

Am I reading clear that by those who admire Messi more but put CR7 down also influences your take on Messi ?

Football wise they both are amazing - personality wise chalk and cheese right ?

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I like Ronaldo too.....sure he's the opposite to Messi in many ways. He's an absolute extrovert, a bit flashy on and off the pitch and has always embraced the superstar spotlight almost to the extreme.....

But in many ways he's just like Messi....they have bith shared that rare echelon of ultimate greatness from a young age, both deal with the fame extraordinary well which takes an incredible amount of mental discipline and both are devoted family men.

And for all the noise that surrounds them publicly, that strong family foundation has clearly given them the stability needed to sustain their careers at the absolute top for so long. It jas kept them grounded when everything else is moving at a million miles an hour.

zimbos05 said:

I'm not trying to impose or be controversial about anything. I've watched him his whole career. I am very much making my decision off observation and knowledge of him.

Plus, those who defend Messi, yet shit on Ronaldo for the exact same thing, kind of adds to the view of him.

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You’re not even comparing apples and oranges, it’s almost literally chalk and cheese. As footballers they can be compared in the same sentence, but not as personalities/people. Man United Ronaldo bias there just a little?

Kitwally said:

You’re not even comparing apples and oranges, it’s almost literally chalk and cheese. As footballers they can be compared in the same sentence, but not as personalities/people. Man United Ronaldo bias there just a little?

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Yes my hunch being a United supporter and that’s fine but as you say - they are poles apart off the pitch.

It never even got close to happening in real life of course but when Manchester City were first flooded with petro-dollars the more creative internet comedians came up with some great images and memes.....



Wouldn'tnhave gone down well at Old Trafford.....

Football us life said:

Nah.....he sets a fantastic example....

Despite living under the most intense sports microscope on the planet since he was a teenager, he managed to avoid the kind of destructive off-field controversies that have derailed so many other generational talents.

Even with all the wealth, fame, and corporate machinery around modern football, whenever he stepped on the pitch, he always looked like a kid who just genuinely loved kicking a ball around with his friends.

And best of all....

He has inspired an entire generation of kids worldwide to play with joy, creativity, and humility rather than just physical dominance.

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Thanks for proving one of my points. I don't like Ronaldo over Messi, but I hate that people have this constant need to prove one over the other.

Has Ronaldo not managed to avoid the off-field controversies? Ronaldo was also extremely strict about his body and lived up to the highest standards. With all the wealth, fame and money etc, he also was just a kid who wanted to be the best of what he did. I can't believe Messi is the only footballer in the world who has had such enormous pressure to deal with for their whole career. The poor guy.

- Look at all these times he carried himself with such amazing grace.

Again, I'm not arguing Ronaldo over Messi. i don't care about it. Just simply pointing out the double standard in your own messages. Someone wants to say they don't think highly of Messi, you attack them, yet in the very same breath talked bad of Ronaldo.

The points you are making are things I have acknowledged already, that he was a phenomenal player who inspired many with regards to the on field skills. He also inspired so many kids that it is ok to argue with refs and treat them with disrespect. His talent does excuse that he was a bellend at times. His actions in the World Cup final were enough to prove that.

LFC said:

Yes we have all watched Messi's rise peaks to the finish.
So - you have dislikes of him from your observations at X times, do they outweigh the positives that much ?

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Yeah, they kind of do. A person can be the best at doing something, but if they have a bad character, it is quite telling

LFC said:

Am I reading clear that by those who admire Messi more but put CR7 down also influences your take on Messi ?

Football wise they both are amazing - personality wise chalk and cheese right ?

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It doesn't influence me more, but I find it tiresome that there has to be this constant battle between the two. Why can't we just acknowledge both of them for the footballing talent they are. They were both at the top of their game and achieved some amazing things.

When it comes to personality, I feel like people keep bringing this up because of how much Ronaldo behaved on the sidelines sometimes. Was that not his innate desire to want to win? The same thing that Footballuslife said makes Messi amazing? I'm not excusing it. I don't think it is good to do that and behave in such a way, but Messi is by no means a saint with regards to his personality and behaviour.

Kitwally said:

You’re not even comparing apples and oranges, it’s almost literally chalk and cheese. As footballers they can be compared in the same sentence, but not as personalities/people. Man United Ronaldo bias there just a little?

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It's not even a United bias. I honestly don't even care for the debate of who is a better footballer. I acknowledge both of them for it. But since you all want to say that every single person in football has nice things to say about him:





- Not like someone with a great personality to smash the ball at fans for no reason



You can all attack me all you want, but my view will not change. Amazing footballer, not a particularly nice person.

zimbos05 said:

Thanks for proving one of my points. I don't like Ronaldo over Messi, but I hate that people have this constant need to prove one over the other.

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I wasn't proving one over the other....

But if I was then ultimately, holding two legendary football players to different standards or choosing to overlook the flaws of one while magnifying the flaws of the other is a common fixture of the tribalism that defines modern football fandom....

I didnt even mention or refer to Ronaldo in that particular post either, I was just stating my case that Messi is a fantastic example of not just being a great footballer but a great ambassador for football rather than a footballer who and I quote.....

"doesn't carry himself well or set a great example. ".....

Football us life said:

I wasn't proving one over the other....

But if I was then ultimately, holding two legendary football players to different standards or choosing to overlook the flaws of one while magnifying the flaws of the other is a common fixture of the tribalism that defines modern football fandom....

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I get that tribalism exists. I think I'm guilty of it at times with regards to United, but that's kind of irrelevant here. I think we need to be able to be critical of players when it is justified, and I feel like Messi is justified of the criticism.

Football us life said:

I didnt even mention or refer to Ronaldo in that particular post either, I was just stating my case that Messi is a fantastic example of not just being a great footballer but a great ambassador for football rather than a footballer who and I quote.....

"doesn't carry himself well or set a great example. ".....

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And I disagree with that and have provided examples and reasons for why. I stand by my statement.

Also, you didn't mention Ronaldo in that post, but you did say this in response to my initial post in this thread...

Football us life said:

Throughout his career, teammates, coaches, and opponents have almost universally described Messi as humble, quiet, and respectful. Quiet a stark contrast to the flashier or more provocative personalities often found at the top level of the game. .

I'm looking at you Cristiano. .

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...hence, Ronaldo being brought into the conversation

zimbos05 said:

I get that tribalism exists. I think I'm guilty of it at times with regards to United, but that's kind of irrelevant here. I think we need to be able to be critical of players when it is justified, and I feel like Messi is justified of the criticism.


And I disagree with that and have provided examples and reasons for why. I stand by my statement.

Also, you didn't mention Ronaldo in that post, but you did say this in response to my initial post in this thread...



...hence, Ronaldo being brought into the conversation

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"flashier or more provocative" would probably be an accurate assessment of Ronaldo for most people....

Especially his current manager "Big Ange" after he stormed off down the tunnel aftet his substitution the other day....