Punchanello said:

The bomb we are about to see is in the care economy. Boomer retirement and ageing numbers are peaking. The real problem governments don't want to talk about is that even if we increased migration targets we would struggle to put the workers on the ground that are needed. There already is and will be an aged care crisis.

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China is developing AI robots for this very thing...

Could happen anywhere I guess...

Sure skilled migration in essential services is needed. People working for rideshare apps and other menial jobs shouldn't be in the country. A lot of them have studied or are studying but won't find work in their field. It's a dead end. International students need to be loaded. This whole idea that locals won't don't the work is nonsense. There are enough locals who unfortunately don't aspire to much or have a circumstances where full time work isn't feasible. This is the type of work for them.

Notice how a lot of jobs that were done by local teens are now middle aged permanent migrant adults. Why? It's the same in the UK with Indians behind every counter and it's even creeping into Germany. The standards and conditions have dropped and such migration solely for this work shouldn't be happening.


Meanwhile, why don't we take a war-like footing in training up young locals? I get not every person is suited to every type or role and there are massive structural and funding issues, yet the status quo is just allowed to linger.

If you look back over the past 30 years, retail franchise and a million of odd, unsustainable businesses came in, employed some people and the. The business cycle ended. Perhaps typical of constant change but when the balloons start bursting we get left with nothing pretty quickly.

Football us life said:

And immigration levels are not high enough to build new houses...

Without skilled migration, the domestic workforce alone often lacks the capacity to ramp up construction to the required scale.

Housing crises are often a complex mix of planning policies, financial structures, and labour market demographics rather than just a single lever governments can pull.

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I agree and is this a result of pushing kids into academic studies rather than trades? Bloody ridiculous how seemingly NO ONE could look even 15 years ahead and take a bet the world would change quickly again. I know there were surely some with the foresight but every school career advisor, consultant and politician just pushed Uni, Uni, Uni.

Punchanello said:

Whole sectors would crumble under the load of delivering social and health services without our immigration intake. Go to any hospital and look at who the nurses, wardstaff, cleaners and cooks are. Then there's the private sector. Building, transport and logistics would simply grind to a halt without them. I work those numbers on a daily basis.

The number is a fair but complex question. But at the end of the day it's about how to get the balance to ensure a standard of living and deliver basic services. Nobody bothers to articulate that complexity. It's just fear and paranoia and political BS.

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Just makes you wonder. Same with newly locally trained nurses not finding work in the NHS in a number of news reports.

JS96 said:

Nursing students are rejecting careers in aged care. A staffing crisis is coming

Nursing students often opt out of aged care after their work placement. No amount of downstream reform will undo that first impression of an under-resourced sector.

theconversation.com

Nursing graduate applies for more than 100 jobs without success

Nursing graduates who have applied for hundreds of jobs and have not found work say it's devastating to hear there's a shortage of nurses.

www.rnz.co.nz

Just makes you wonder. Same with newly locally trained nurses not finding work in the NHS in a number of news reports.

NHS long-term damage warning as graduates still without jobs

One paramedic student said she was considering leaving Wales for a career abroad.

www.bbc.com

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Normally just a lurker in the politics thread… but I work in nursing and have been involved/convened in both local and district recruitment drives. We absolutely need overseas workers. Sure if you want to work in paediatrics or emergency you might not always get in straight away because they’re very popular. But try recruit for the less desirable areas, mental health, rural/regional and aged care for example, and it’s a different story. We will always try local first but time and time again we look over seas once we’ve exhausted sometimes months and months of advertising and recruitment drives. Trust me the health districts would much rather not pay for visas and moving allowances if they didn’t need to. I really worry for the future of small rural sites and MPS’s in small towns, without visa nurses most would already be in strife. I’ve personally not known anyone who hasn’t been able to find some sort of work in nursing. The only reasons I could think of not being able to find a job would be wanting a specific area (or not wanting a specific area) or you’re a particularly bad nurse…. And even then you’d probably still get a job somewhere

jimshady said:

Normally just a lurker in the politics thread… but I work in nursing and have been involved/convened in both local and district recruitment drives. We absolutely need overseas workers. Sure if you want to work in paediatrics or emergency you might not always get in straight away because they’re very popular. But try recruit for the less desirable areas, mental health, rural/regional and aged care for example, and it’s a different story. We will always try local first but time and time again we look over seas once we’ve exhausted sometimes months and months of advertising and recruitment drives. Trust me the health districts would much rather not pay for visas and moving allowances if they didn’t need to. I really worry for the future of small rural sites and MPS’s in small towns, without visa nurses most would already be in strife. I’ve personally not known anyone who hasn’t been able to find some sort of work in nursing. The only reasons I could think of not being able to find a job would be wanting a specific area (or not wanting a specific area) or you’re a particularly bad nurse…. And even then you’d probably still get a job somewhere

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It's perfectly understandable that people won't just move anywhere for work. Wishful thinking they just need to incentivise the rural areas better when funding is tight but perhaps programs for people to do their training out in the sticks is one thing.

JS96 said:

It's perfectly understandable that people won't just move anywhere for work. Wishful thinking they just need to incentivise the rural areas better when funding is tight but perhaps programs for people to do their training out in the sticks is one thing.

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Absolutely, unless you’re from the area or you’re looking for a sea change, there’s little incentive. But we try all those things. Relocation bonuses. Scholarships. Opportunities for more rapid personal regrades to CNS etc. Free education and training opportunities. Getting more Nurse Practitioners in rural areas. For most visa nurses they must stay in that area for x amount of years. The reality like you said though, there’s no money to do any more than that. This is just nurses…. Doctors is another story and an even scarier one.

jimshady said:

Absolutely, unless you’re from the area or you’re looking for a sea change, there’s little incentive. But we try all those things. Relocation bonuses. Scholarships. Opportunities for more rapid personal regrades to CNS etc. Free education and training opportunities. Getting more Nurse Practitioners in rural areas. For most visa nurses they must stay in that area for x amount of years. The reality like you said though, there’s no money to do any more than that. This is just nurses…. Doctors is another story and an even scarier one.

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Yep. lots of federal, state and private incentives but it's just not enough, it seems. This is the pattern in most of the "western" world (for want of a better term).

Even aside from the money, we don't treat these professions as "vocations" and crafts in and of themselves. We don't give them the respect they deserve because their value is in the societal glue they produce, not necessarily profit. Literally a fulfilling of the social contract that underpins the social and political stability on which business for profit can operate successfully.

I saw one misleading stat being run by the usual shills at Newscorp suggesting that wages are increasing, 60% of the increase in the public sector. i.e. fat cat bureaucrats and Canberra dwellers.

There are 3 falsehoods in that. The 60% included the WHOLE care economy (nursing, caring, aged care, disability, social work) which on its own is rapidly heading towards 40% of all wages. The second falsehood is that it is going to the public service. The public service has been shrinking year on year for over a decade as a % of population. The third is that it's happening in Canberra. 70% of the Federal (only) public service live and work outside of Canberra, 20% of which are in the regions. *I rounded all those numbers but you get the point.

It goes to show how deliberately these false narratives are generated to manipulate people's prejudices and perceptions.

On a personal note, my daughter has been very sick over the past few months. She has been hospitalised 6 times. The whole ordeal has been awful except for the absolute commitment, kindness and dignity offered by the rank and file staff. Mostly Nepalese, some Indian and Thai. I don't know I see this whole immigration debate differently. I see workers and ordinary people doing their best within social, political and economic forces beyond their control. People both born here and overseas.

Punchanello said:

On a personal note, my daughter has been very sick over the past few months. She has been hospitalised 6 times. The whole ordeal has been awful except for the absolute commitment, kindness and dignity offered by the rank and file staff. Mostly Nepalese, some Indian and Thai. I don't know I see this whole immigration debate differently. I see workers and ordinary people doing their best within social, political and economic forces beyond their control. People both born here and overseas.

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Sorry to hear about your daughter and I hope she’s on the mend. Couldn’t agree more with your statement as well.

Punchanello said:

On a personal note, my daughter has been very sick over the past few months. She has been hospitalised 6 times. The whole ordeal has been awful except for the absolute commitment, kindness and dignity offered by the rank and file staff. Mostly Nepalese, some Indian and Thai. I don't know I see this whole immigration debate differently. I see workers and ordinary people doing their best within social, political and economic forces beyond their control. People both born here and overseas.

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Praying for your daughter amigo... Hope all is well.

jimshady said:

Sorry to hear about your daughter and I hope she’s on the mend. Couldn’t agree more with your statement as well.

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Seconded....

A few years back I was rushed into hospital myself for an emergency operation and the actions and care of the staffing was immense.

If I remember the surgical staff was quite a mix. The consultant surgeon was Pakistani, his number 2 was an Indian lady and the other surgeon was Australian.

1 nurse was Malaysian I think and the other Australian.

Aftercare in hospital was excellent too. Absolutely fantastic work all round in terms of the calm competence and teamwork of the staff in entire process.

Credit to their profession.

JS96 said:

I agree and is this a result of pushing kids into academic studies rather than trades? Bloody ridiculous how seemingly NO ONE could look even 15 years ahead and take a bet the world would change quickly again. I know there were surely some with the foresight but every school career advisor, consultant and politician just pushed Uni, Uni, Uni.

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We have friends whose eldest son was halfway through an electrical apprenticeship and he chucked it in...

Said he just hated being on these large jobsites!!

Now he's working in a Zaraffas coffee drive-through as a barista!!

Which is still a great because coffee keeps the nation going but the trades are not for everyone

Monoethnic Social Club said:

China is developing AI robots for this very thing...

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They may well be. I think I'd prefer the personal approach.

The agriculture and food processing industries have a heavy reliance migrant labour too....

The sorts of jobs a lot of regular Australians don't often want to do.

So without a ready supply of these migrant workers we'd likely be paying $10 per kilo for bananas and apples and $20 for cooked chook at Woolies and Coles!!

Although I get there's a lot of exploitation in these sectors....

patjennings said:

They may well be. I think I'd prefer the personal approach.

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Im definitely sure the Japanese already have robots for "the personal approach" hahahahahaha