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Poppa Out

Dinamo said:
Tuchel is going to cop a lot of criticism but he isn't really the problem. They declined physically, you could see how heavy their legs were on TV and you can see it in the stats. Playing in Mexico City and then backing up with 120 minutes in Miami was always going to be hard to overcome. Combine that with their inability to retain the ball (2 completed passes in 19 minutes) and it's no surprise Argentina ends up clamping them in their own half until Lautaro scores.

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Dinamo said:
Tuchel is going to cop a lot of criticism but he isn't really the problem. They declined physically, you could see how heavy their legs were on TV and you can see it in the stats. Playing in Mexico City and then backing up with 120 minutes in Miami was always going to be hard to overcome. Combine that with their inability to retain the ball (2 completed passes in 19 minutes) and it's no surprise Argentina ends up clamping them in their own half until Lautaro scores.

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In Football Aus National Conferences distance stats were posted and discussed from World Cups.

It was generally found that teams with less possession in a game, ran more than the team with more possession in the same game.
 
Encomium said:
Dobson is a good example, he has good physicality and is technical, he usually uses his technicality to get out of trouble or get past a player, but uses his physicality to close down players or strength to protect the ball.
Clayton Taylor was the opposite, he used his physicality to get past players or get out of trouble, close opposition, his technicality was in first touch, pass and strike.
Two very different players.

There is a physical technicality, pace, shifting direction and strength to get the better of your opponent.
Technicality in the pure sense is trickery with the ball at your feet I guess, letting the ball do the work rather than physicality.
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Excellent post!
 
onedaywinners... said:
A lot of these examples re agility and acceleration may likely be due to the extra focus on the physical as per previous poster. You can only work your body mechanics so much that your body disposition allows.

Possibly we share a similar challenge with England where we tend to focus on upper body strength and muscle growth as athletes - even culturally. I know this has been mentioned before on this forum.

How many of the Spanish team would have bulging shoulders and biceps?? It is called football after all.
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I couldn't get over how big - tall and bulky, most English players were in Tuchel's squad. On the pitch sometimes most English players were 1.85 or 1.88m tall, or 6 feet 2. I looked up their heights.

Conversely, the Spanish were quite puny, with a greater number of shorter nimble players. Ditto Argentina, shorter, but a bit bulkier.

IMO England have really improved stylistically, but what cost them is they struggled to negate central attacking interplay from France ( second half) and Argentina ( after England scored).

I think the tall Rice and Anderson, to a lesser extent, Bellingham, were too cumbersome to change direction quickly when jockeying and delaying, when trying to screen the defensive line. The one twos and dribbling was a bit quick for them from both Argentina and France later in the games.

I've lifted weights for 50 years plus and recognise gym honed bodies. Most Poms at this WC have spent a lot more time in the gym - Squatting, Deadlifting, Bench Pressing, Incline Dumbbell Bench Pressing, Dumbbell Overhead Pressing and doing Lat Pull Downs, than Spanish players have.

I think England need more players like Saka - shorter, nimble and can change direction quickly. Phil Foden can do this too, but he wasn't selected.

In the early days of the AL I used to watch Argentinian club football on SBS, then watch AL. The AL players were huge and bulky compared to Argentinian club players from Boca Juniors, River Plate, etc.

With a greater number of young domestic players in the AL, I don't think they look as big and bulky as the early AL years in 2005, 6, 7.

I've read articles from the likes of Ray Gatt and Mike Cockerill where some of the early AL imports were almost frightened of the Aussies, even teammates at training, in the AL, because they were so physically rugged and tackled so hard - even at training.
 
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Decentric said:
I couldn't get over how big - tall and bulky, most English players were in Tuchel's squad. On the pitch sometimes most English players were 1.85 or 1.88m tall, or 6 feet 2. I looked up their heights.

Conversely, the Spanish were quite puny, with a greater number of shorter nimble players. Ditto Argentina, shorter, but a bit bulkier.

IMO England have really improved stylistically, but what cost them is they struggled to negate central attacking interplay from France ( second half) and Argentina ( after England scored).

I think the tall Rice and Anderson, to a lesser extent, Bellingham, were too cumbersome to change direction quickly when jockeying and delaying, when trying to screen the defensive line. The one twos and dribbling was a bit quick for them from both Argentina and France later in the games.

I've lifted weights for 50 years plus and recognise gym honed bodies. Most Poms at this WC have spent a lot more time in the gym - Squatting, Deadlifting, Bench Pressing, Incline Dumbbell Bench Pressing, Dumbbell Overhead Pressing and doing Lat Pull Downs, than Spanish players have.

I think England need more players like Saka - shorter, nimble and can change direction quickly. Phil Foden can do this too, but he wasn't selected.

in the early days of the AL I used to watch Agentinian club football on SBS, then watch AL. The AL players were huge and bulky compared to Argentinian club players from Boca Juniors, River Plate, etc.

With a greater number of young domestic players in the AL, I don't think they look as big and bulky as the early AL years in 2005, 6, 7.

I've read articles from the likes of Ray Gatt and Mike Cockerill where some of the early AL imports were almost frightened of the Aussies, even teammates at training, in the AL, because they were so physically rugged and tackled so hard - even at training.
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interestingly I suspect spain would be seen as more physically advanced except for needing one or two extra tall and/or fast players,

just different type of physical blessings (my guest from scouted explained).

Their ability to counter press was the best in the world which requires lots of changing direction, lots of acceleration and decelerations, lots of short sprints over 5-10m

whereas England would have had a height and speed advantage, Spain across all physical criteria were probably better (as well as being technically better)
 
grazorblade said:
interestingly I suspect spain would be seen as more physically advanced except for needing one or two extra tall and/or fast players,

just different type of physical blessings (my guest from scouted explained).

Their ability to counter press was the best in the world which requires lots of changing direction, lots of acceleration and decelerations, lots of short sprints over 5-10m

whereas England would have had a height and speed advantage, Spain across all physical criteria were probably better (as well as being technically better)
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I keep forgetting about deceleration.

I forgot to count the number of Spanish players in the Argentinian and French defensive halves.

Turkey and USA often had 8-9 players in the Aus defensive half as they Full Pressed and Squeezed intensively! It seemed to me, Spain didn't Squeeze as intensively as Turkey and USA did to us.

Spain also played out effectively when Squeezed in their defensive half.

Popa would have been relieved when Paraguay only Half Pressed against Aus.
 
Decentric said:
I can only conclude Toure was carrying an injury. For mine, after looking at all players very closely through compilation of stats, over the last year he is the current stand out for central striker.

One stat that Aussie Scout posted was that in heading duels at the WC, Irank won a greater percentage of them, than Toure. I like the fact Aussie Scout uses, stats, but this must be some sort of deviation with AI.

Irank has a great leap and may have had more heading duels against one defender, because Toure often competes against multiple defenders, and still wins about half his heading duels, being able to outmuscle his opponents. Toure can hold the ball up too in tight spaces, whilst Irank's tends to have less favourable body shape with his back facing goal.

As most of us reading this would acknowledge, Irank needs a bit of space, with body position facing forwards as he receives, to intimidate them with his fast ball carrying and dribbling and speed over the turf.
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I still haven't seen any statements from either the Socceroos or his club that Toure has been carrying an injury. So I'm not making that leap yet. Maybe he just underperformed at the WC. My memory is far from perfect so I'd prefer to see the stats but he was largely anonymous in his minutes on the pitch. Maybe Popa felt compelled to shift Irankunda to ST as a consequence.
 
dr. bellows said:
I still haven't seen any statements from either the Socceroos or his club that Toure has been carrying an injury. So I'm not making that leap yet. Maybe he just underperformed at the WC. My memory is far from perfect so I'd prefer to see the stats but he was largely anonymous in his minutes on the pitch. Maybe Popa felt compelled to shift Irankunda to ST as a consequence.
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If Toure was fit, I'm perplexed he wasn't played? Or I should clarify, played in all games.

In the last year, with all the stats I've done, he is easily our most effective central striker.

Aussie Scout produced stats to say that Irank won more headin duels in the WC than Toure.

What I found in my stats, Toure competed against mutiple opponents, frequently, but won his fair share of aerial duels. He also used his body well and held the ball up with his back to goal, which Irank couldn't do as effectively.

I'm sure most reading this would agree Irank is more effective playing wider, so why didn't Popa play Toure as target striker if he was fit? I just don't get it?
 
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Am still frustrated by lingering thoughts regarding the use of Irankunda at this world cup.

Was Toure injured? Was having Irankunda's speed upfront a defensive measure against a high press? Irankunda did surprisingly well with back to goal but Tete is miles ahead in that department. Is Tete out of favour? Was Popa unhappy with Irankunda's positioning at LW?
 
DandyCasey said:
Am still frustrated by lingering thoughts regarding the use of Irankunda at this world cup.

Was Toure injured? Was having Irankunda's speed upfront a defensive measure against a high press? Irankunda did surprisingly well with back to goal but Tete is miles ahead in that department. Is Tete out of favour? Was Popa unhappy with Irankunda's positioning at LW?
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All good questions and comments.

Not sure we will ever know?
 
Decentric said:
If Toure was fit, I'm perplexed he wasn't played?

In the last year, with all the stats I've done, he is easily our most effective central striker.

Aussie Scout produced stats to say that Irank won more headin duels in the WC than Toure.

What I found in my stats, Toure competed against mutiple opponents, frequently, but won his fair share of aerial duels. He also used his body well and held the ball up with his back to goal, which Irank couldn't do as effectively.

I'm sure most reading this would agree Irank is more effective playing wider, so why didn't Popa play Toure as target striker if he was fit? I just don't get it?
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Toure was played. Started against Turkey, subbed off 74th minute. Started against USA, replaced at half-time. Remained on the bench against Paraguay. Came on as a second half sub against Egypt.
 
dr. bellows said:
Toure was played. Started against Turkey, subbed off 74th minute. Started against USA, replaced at half-time. Remained on the bench against Paraguay. Came on as a second half sub against Egypt.
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When I looked at the WC replays, I didn't really scrutinise how effective Toure seemed?

I recorded and analysed a lot of data pre World Cup. Toure was terrific.

Sadly, Toure played an unforced error in the last few minutes of regular time against Egypt. I thought Aus were on top through most of the second half. Then after this soft Toure corner to Egypt, they got on top for the last 3 mins, and in Extra Time.

Despite the pen shoot out, I felt Egypt played better in the 120 mins and deserved to win.

His pace and strength usually unsettles defences. Toure works very hard off the ball.
 
Decentric said:
A point well made.

Bielsa had a lot fans on here as a prospective Aus coach.
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Even though he’s prob fallen off just a tad(plus he’s no spring chicken now he’s in his early 70s), I’d do most anything to secure his services once Popa’s done after the Asian Cup; Bielsa is who we’d need to improve our pool of decidedly-average players, and this video delves into how he goes about such a process:

 
grazorblade said:
interestingly I suspect spain would be seen as more physically advanced except for needing one or two extra tall and/or fast players,

just different type of physical blessings (my guest from scouted explained).

Their ability to counter press was the best in the world which requires lots of changing direction, lots of acceleration and decelerations, lots of short sprints over 5-10m

whereas England would have had a height and speed advantage, Spain across all physical criteria were probably better (as well as being technically better)
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Almost without exception, the average elite player is taller than the population they come from. But the comparative heights between teams at the WC pretty much correlate with the comparative heights between the populations they come from https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/average-height-by-country. It doesn't take much imagination to draw some very accurate correlations between playing styles of different nations based on that height map. You could also argue those styles are cultural, but also determined or influenced by nature.

I would hazard a guess that an analysis would show at least an above average size difference between the average Australian population height and the average height of Australian elite players, compared to other nations. That's a cultural choice. One which narrows the talent pool.
 
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