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FIFA WC 26 - Other Nations LIVE Match Thread ⚽

in the end Punch though that is your DNA.
If this sounds alright from my viewing all the years, always desperate to prove yourselves Internationally and especially in CON.
Brazil used to be the Kings - they belittled all - Uruguay have had their moments.
So being the conqueror is a huge badge as always.
Diego broke those losing shackles long ago even though he got away with the hand of god that was wrong.
Trauma is in the veins.
Messi has been the modern messiah - I'm sure there was desperation amongst the squad/Scaloni and supporters to send him off with the double but the trauma won this time.
You have gone through countless lows and rose again as you will And your right about the ghost.
Diego's was always hanging around # 10 and Messi has carried it immensely capping off Qatars win - I wonder IF your guys will retire it ??
For who can ever wear it as the next Messiah and pressure one wonders.
Under current FIFA World Cup regulations, squads have to be numbered from 1 to 26, so 10 must be allocated to a player. Given though the apparent man-love that Infantino has for Argentina/Messi, it wouldn't surprise me to see that Infantino bends the regulations for the next WC so that Argentina does not have to have a 10 jersey in use :rolleyes:
 
Under current FIFA World Cup regulations, squads have to be numbered from 1 to 26, so 10 must be allocated to a player. Given though the apparent man-love that Infantino has for Argentina/Messi, it wouldn't surprise me to see that Infantino bends the regulations for the next WC so that Argentina does not have to have a 10 jersey in use :rolleyes:
Diego Maradona was also number 10.
 
Diego Maradona was also number 10.
We all know that and quoted as such in my earlier post.
I agree with K66’s mention - Fantino is a special - he got Messi to wear that hideous robe as a winner for one - imo that shouldn’t have been implemented but he did endorse it no doubt to appease to them - the $’s provided.
Retire a legendary # ? Yep who knows nothing will surprise me today.
 
I've had 24+ hours to digest and I can still only say that this was shameful. It hurts but in the end the better team won. Spain was very, very clearly the better team. The way Argentina played was just shameful. I'm ok with a level of shithousery, but this crossed a line and I feel it will do huge damage to Argentine football for a long time.

What I've been thinking about is, why did that happen?

Most modern Argentine coaches have been measured against either Bilardo (86 winner) or Menotti (78 winner). In retrospect Scaloni sits the in the Bilardo school in more ways than one. The first obvious one is the win at all costs brawler side (albeit I think the current behaviour would have made Bilardo blush). The second one was building a side around the 10, with most players chosen for their desire to run through walls to get the most out of him.

In contrast, I think you could say that a more Menotti approach was Bielsa's Argentina featuring Zanetti, Aimar, Mascherano, Batistuta. Or Pekerman's side with Sorin, Riquelme, Cambiasso, Crespo. Machines merging silk and steel with key players within the system, not dominating it.

That era was expressly built on reaching beyond Buenos Aires and into the provinces for talent, the character of players and the aesthetic of the football. Paradoxically, it won Argentina nothing. We made plenty of late tournament stages but always fell at the final hurdle.

From 2006 onwards we enter a mixed bag, an identity crisis and the Messi blessing/problem. I'll skip over that but the worst of it was under Maradona and Sampaoli. But it appeared in 2020 and then 2022, Scaloni had found the answer. Back to Bilardismo. And with it came a return to the darker arts.

Which brings us to this World Cup final. I think there were some serious game day tactical mistakes and a little bit of misfortune (maybe that's another post). But ultimately, I think hubris and the cult of Messi got a hold of this team and in particular Scaloni. Perhaps even Messi himself as this felt more and more like a vanity project as the tournament progressed. It was not about playing the right way and turning great performances into a shot at the title, it became a mission to get Messi another World Cup. The cost of that was that we saw the worst character of the likes of Perez, Montiel, Paredes and even Messi and we also saw diminished versions of players who should have been key contributors, not supporting actors - Alvarez, Martinez MacAllister. We saw next to nothing of some younger and emerging talent - Nico Paz, Almada and Barco.

We may not have won the final or even made it that far, but I don't believe we would have seen what we saw had the side been coached by someone more like Pekerman, Menotti or a Bielsa in his prime. Their approach embodies something I have always believed - winning has to be underpinned by a higher philosophy. In contrast what we saw from Argentina was pure nihilism. A debasement. Truly beautiful sides of the past, a record of producing near endless world class talent and the genius of Maradona, Riquelme, Messi, Di Maria etc are fading in the international memory, replaced with a near universal contempt for the Albiceleste.

I don't want that analysis to take away from Spain. They won and won well. It was not simply a case of Argentina capitulating.

That's a great deep dive into your tactical history, but I think calling it pure "nihilism" might be a touch hard....

While the final was a painful watch and Spain thoroughly deserved their victory, you're a fan viewing this through the immediate grief of a devastating loss?

Let's not forget what Bilardismo and Scaloni's pragmatism has actually given Argentina....

An unbreakable collective resilience, an unmatched hunger, and a culture that turned a group of players into a fierce brotherhood. You don't reach the pinnacle of world football on dark arts alone, it takes immense mental fortitude, tactical intelligence, and extraordinary leadership.

When you have a once-in-a-history genius like Messi at the twilight of his career, centering the team's mission around him isn't a "vanity project it's a privilege and a logical sporting choice. Every great nation bends its structure to maximise its greatest asset. Yes, the behaviour in the final crossed a line, and you missed opportunities to integrate younger legs like Paz or Almada, but let's not let one awful match erase the immense pride this team restored to Argentine football over the last several years.

1 World Cup and 2 Copa's...

Losing to a brilliant Spanish side, yeah, but the character of this squad has always been built on fighting against the odds, not just playing pretty football....

Anyway excellent post....

Also i detect a bit of anxiety about what happens now that an era is closing.

But I tend to think that Argentina's football ecosystem manages to continuously develop world-class talent despite constant financial strain and the relentless poaching of its youth by European clubs.... You have a unique blend of cultural infrastructure, sheer scale of passion, and resilient club-level development pipelines....

I tell you....you're gonna be fine!
 
in the end Punch though that is your DNA.
If this sounds alright from my viewing all the years, always desperate to prove yourselves Internationally and especially in CON.
Brazil used to be the Kings - they belittled all - Uruguay have had their moments.
So being the conqueror is a huge badge as always.
Diego broke those losing shackles long ago even though he got away with the hand of god that was wrong.
Trauma is in the veins.
Messi has been the modern messiah - I'm sure there was desperation amongst the squad/Scaloni and supporters to send him off with the double but the trauma won this time.
You have gone through countless lows and rose again as you will And your right about the ghost.
Diego's was always hanging around # 10 and Messi has carried it immensely capping off Qatars win - I wonder IF your guys will retire it ??
For who can ever wear it as the next Messiah and pressure one wonders.
Yes and no. If you mean the 10 is in the DNA, yes. The rough stuff and competitive drive, yes. But the extent to which either the sublime or the seedy take precedence is always a tension in Argentine football. I just think we went way too far this time. That's the core of my disappointment.

For example, my favourite Argentine World Cup team was the one with Riquelme in the 10. Riquelme was the brain but he was part of a system and surrounded by players capable of changing a match in their own right. Pekerman built it at youth and Olympic level and then got the top job and took it to the WC. It was a clean team but it was also street smart and resilient. He emphasized playing the right way and character.
 
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Yes and no. If you mean the 10 is in the DNA, yes. The rough stuff and competitive drive, yes. But the extent to which either the sublime or the seedy take precedence is always a tension in Argentine football. I just think we went way too far this time. That's the core of my disappointment.

For example, my favourite Argentine World Cup team was the one with Riquelme in the 10. Riquelme was the brain but he was part of a system and surrounded by players capable of changing a match in their own right. Pekerman built it at youth and Olympic level and then got the top job and took it to the WC. It was a clean team but it was also street smart and resilient. He emphasized playing the right way and character.
The post antics absolutely went way too far - I understand the disappointment.
Yes my DNA mention is the drive/passion/roughness/take no prisoner kind of persona you see it in the eyes of every player, I admire that.

Ah Topo Gigo - class man class.
This is what makes up teams, the workers/the grinders/the gifted ones/the reliable last man/the play makers - poetry.
 
Yet when Redmayne throws a water bottle away he gets dragged down by his own as being no better than the South Americans.
This was viewed very positively at the time I thought. It was talked about as Australia finally being a “mature” football nation finally able to compete with the skulduggery of the South American nations.
 
in the end Punch though that is your DNA.
If this sounds alright from my viewing all the years, always desperate to prove yourselves Internationally and especially in CON.
Brazil used to be the Kings - they belittled all - Uruguay have had their moments.
So being the conqueror is a huge badge as always.
Diego broke those losing shackles long ago even though he got away with the hand of god that was wrong.
Trauma is in the veins.
Messi has been the modern messiah - I'm sure there was desperation amongst the squad/Scaloni and supporters to send him off with the double but the trauma won this time.
You have gone through countless lows and rose again as you will And your right about the ghost.
Diego's was always hanging around # 10 and Messi has carried it immensely capping off Qatars win - I wonder IF your guys will retire it ??
For who can ever wear it as the next Messiah and pressure one wonders.
I don't think they can, as FIFA will always make them use numbers 1-26 in a 26 player squad. The next couple World Cup's are going to be like 1998 and 2002 for them.
 
This was viewed very positively at the time I thought. It was talked about as Australia finally being a “mature” football nation finally able to compete with the skulduggery of the South American nations.
Absolutely but I'm referring to people who compliment South Americans for being cunning yet went hard on Redmayne making out how hypocritical he is when they themselves are being hypocritical.
 
Argentina are dirty fuckers.

But you know what, I'd have that in heartbeat,. They leave everything out there for their nation.

They're so unlikeable, I like them.
And yet everyone mocks the west Asians for their feigning and simulation and time wasting. For me sneaky and brutal are equally anti-football
 
Yet when Redmayne throws a water bottle away he gets dragged down by his own as being no better than the South Americans.
A bit late to party but congrats to Spain, they fully deserved their win they were the protagonists and forced the game more whilst Argentina looked tired and relied on a odd error from Spain at the back or penalties to win it themselves.

But there was only 1 team that was going to win and it was Spain, 20 shots to 2 (it was actually 0 until the 118th minute!), if anything it was quite a one sided game compared to the closer games of 2022 and 2018 as well.

But Spain's way of playing is all down to big changes they made at grassroots level along with the influence of Johan Cruyff at the start of the 1990s and ever since then they have turned themselves as one if not the major powerhouse in world football, not bad for a country where they were seen as underachievers historically.

Also a shoutout to the coach in De La Fuente, he's done an unbelievable job he's not a big name but sometimes big name coaches come with egos and certainly this coach has showed he can put the team first for the greater good.

And just like that World Cup is over for another 4 years we are going to miss it but its back to club football again, as they say the show doesn't stop! :D
I heard somewhere that Spain's grassroots coaches are the key to Spain's success. The Spanish "system" or "philosoophy" starts early
 
Very good post this.

From reading the papers in Argentina, I feel as though regardless of the result and the approach, there is a huge amount of love for the Selección because of Messi and what they did 4 years ago.

I don't think Argentina are ready for a reckoning until Messi retires and whatever the state of affairs may be at the next WC (presumably without him and many of the experienced over 30 players in the squad).

The identity crisis may still yet to come.
I used to love Argentina. Can't remember which World Cup, ARG v MEX 30 something passes by Argentina leading inevitably to the goal. Beautiful. Now? Ugly
 
Under current FIFA World Cup regulations, squads have to be numbered from 1 to 26, so 10 must be allocated to a player. Given though the apparent man-love that Infantino has for Argentina/Messi, it wouldn't surprise me to see that Infantino bends the regulations for the next WC so that Argentina does not have to have a 10 jersey in use :rolleyes:
I remember when football used too be a team sport
 
We all know that and quoted as such in my earlier post.
I agree with K66’s mention - Fantino is a special - he got Messi to wear that hideous robe as a winner for one - imo that shouldn’t have been implemented but he did endorse it no doubt to appease to them - the $’s provided.
Retire a legendary # ? Yep who knows nothing will surprise me today.
It is absolutely sad yet I would not be surprised if infungulo appointed Vince McMahon to head CONCACAF FIFA executive.
 
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