Anyone calling for Popa's head can't have watched a lot of the teams who reached the last 32 and particularly the last 16.

I've calculated top leagues in the world number:

UEFA V Big Five
100 clubs
15 starting players at each
* 1500 players

30ish Big UEFA Clubs not in the EUFA Big Five, who play a lot of Champ League and Europa League
15 starting players at each club
* 450 players

Brazil/Argentina
Circa 40 clubs
15 starting players at each club
*600 players

* Total 2550 players playing elite club football in the world.

How many Aussies?
Circati in Serie A. Since Italy haven't qualified for 3 WCs in succession, how good are the 50% of Italian nationals who play in Serie A?
Ditto Volpato, but he is a sub in Serie A, I think?

Ryan plays in the Spanish top flight.

Bos plays for Feyenoorde - in the Big UEFA 30 outside the Big Five leagues

Irvine starter at St Pauli, with Metcalfe a sub. They've been demoted.

So all Aus has is 4 starters and 2 subs playing at elite club level out of 2550 players globally.

I'd surmise most teams in the last 32 at the 2026 WC, and even in the original 48, had far more players playing at elite club levels than us. To get out of the group stage was pretty good for the Roos.

Our depth at both Wing Back flanks and Striker/Wingers was exposed when Italiano, Bos, Toure ( carrying injury) and McGree were injured.

I intend to list the salient technical qualities of various WC national teams in the Socceroo stats/analysis thread, and, how they compare to Aus.

LFC said:

Why do you make so much sense mate !

I’m so sick of the many talking up what we have - we are way off when competing Cup standards ! Way off and that even before having a coach that can guide the ready squad to battle !!!

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Thanks!

People only look at the results rather watch the game to see how we go, the round of 32 was a good result but had its challenges we need to aim higher for better results but if it means uncomfortable truths and questions in how we can get there then we will never move forward.

riquelmes_laces said:

I don’t think it’s cultural appropriation or inheritance.

I think Poppa and Tuchel sing from the same hymn sheet in coaching philosophy.

There’s nothing wrong with different styles, just how you read game state matters. Tuchel was a genius at the Azteca and a dunce in Atlanta.

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I wonder if those countries like Spain/Argentina have a ‘clear it’ culture that exists in the UK and Anglo cultures? It’s a big problem where the ball gets allergic in tough moments.

Decentric said:

Anyone calling for Popa's head can't have watched a lot of the teams who reached the last 32 and particularly the last 16.

I've calculated top leagues in the world number:

UEFA V Big Five
100 clubs
15 starting players at each
* 1500 players

30ish Big UEFA Clubs not in the EUFA Big Five, who play a lot of Champ League and Europa League
15 starting players at each club
* 450 players

Brazil/Argentina
Circa 40 clubs
15 starting players at each club
*600 players

* Total 2550 players playing elite club football in the world.

How many Aussies?
Circati in Serie A. Since Italy haven't qualified for 3 WCs in succession, how good are the 50% of Italian nationals who play in Serie A?
Ditto Volpato, but he is a sub in Serie A, I think?

Ryan plays in the Spanish top flight.

Bos plays for Feyenoorde - in the Big UEFA 30 outside the Big Five leagues

Irvine starter at St Pauli, with Metcalfe a sub. They've been demoted.

So all Aus has is 4 starters and 2 subs playing at elite club level out of 2550 players globally.

I'd surmise most teams in the last 32 at the 2026 WC, and even in the original 48, had far more players playing at elite club levels than us. To get out of the group stage was pretty good for the Roos.

Our depth at both Wing Back flanks and Striker/Wingers was exposed when Italiano, Bos, Toure ( carrying injury) and McGree were injured.

I intend to list the salient technical qualities of various WC national teams in the Socceroo stats/analysis thread, and, how they compare to Aus.

Click to expand...

Yes we had injuries - but we had an unbalanced squad that could only play one way. You can go into a one of game like that - not a tournament. If you pick a squad for a tournament that is set up to play one way and so have an unbalanced squad the manager can only look at himself.

Popovic has the job until the Asian Cup. so he is going nowhere.

What I find it incredible that you can't see that there is nothing to learn here. I will be very disappointed if Popovic does not pick a squad for the Asian Cup to show that he has learnt that tournament football, especially for a country like Australia that is not elite, is not about playing one way but being adaptable depending on the opposition and the circumstances. If you limit the chances by picking a squad that is so rigid you only have yourself to blame.

I don't rely care about the salient technical qualities of various WC national teams. I care about selecting a squad that can beat those teams with the right tactics or at the very least negate their advantages and at the same time maximise our advantages. If not we may as well we will never go further than we do and give up and take up following different sports. It's as simple as that. Learn and get better or console yourself with stats.

Wil that help us get further - maybe not - but to pick a squad that can be so hamstrung by injuries because they are really only there to defend without multiple routes to goal is self-defeating. Popovic is a smart guy - I expect he will not make the same mistake come the Asian Cup. Unfortunately he is a stubborn guy as well - so he may.

Barca4life said:

I wonder if those countries like Spain/Argentina have a ‘clear it’ culture that exists in the UK and Anglo cultures? It’s a big problem where the ball gets allergic in tough moments.

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Dunno about now, but back in the day Latin footballing culture used to look down on that; it was seen as a last resort at best and tactical-cowardice at worst. Successfully playing out from the back under pressure was what earned respect in those circumstances, definitely.

I recall that in his write-up of our 2nd-leg elimination by Uruguay for Korea/Japan '02 on the SBS website, Les Murray made note of the fact that our boys would blatantly play for throw-ins instead of keeping the ball in play; that once the Montevideo home-crowd noticed it as pattern they then took to jeering the ‘Roos players whenever they did so. Interesting to look back on as an example of what’d be considered 'tactical-cowardice' by some that wouldn’t be by others, IMO.

And for anyone that says we don't have the players so the manager is irrelevant then I'll do the job. I'm not qualified but since a manager is irrelevant I'll take $200,000 a year to be irrelevant and the FA can save $1M for other purposes.

If there is no accountability for the manager I think I could thrive.

grazorblade said:

I dont think the manager is irrelevant, i just think its hard to get better for the coin we can realistically offer

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There are plenty of people saying that we don't have the players no matter who is the manager, if so why bother trying, we may as well just accept our lot in life and declare ourselves World AFL champions.

Decentric said:

Anyone calling for Popa's head can't have watched a lot of the teams who reached the last 32 and particularly the last 16.

I've calculated top leagues in the world number:

UEFA V Big Five
100 clubs
15 starting players at each
* 1500 players

30ish Big UEFA Clubs not in the EUFA Big Five, who play a lot of Champ League and Europa League
15 starting players at each club
* 450 players

Brazil/Argentina
Circa 40 clubs
15 starting players at each club
*600 players

* Total 2550 players playing elite club football in the world.

How many Aussies?
Circati in Serie A. Since Italy haven't qualified for 3 WCs in succession, how good are the 50% of Italian nationals who play in Serie A?
Ditto Volpato, but he is a sub in Serie A, I think?

Ryan plays in the Spanish top flight.

Bos plays for Feyenoorde - in the Big UEFA 30 outside the Big Five leagues

Irvine starter at St Pauli, with Metcalfe a sub. They've been demoted.

So all Aus has is 4 starters and 2 subs playing at elite club level out of 2550 players globally.

I'd surmise most teams in the last 32 at the 2026 WC, and even in the original 48, had far more players playing at elite club levels than us. To get out of the group stage was pretty good for the Roos.

Our depth at both Wing Back flanks and Striker/Wingers was exposed when Italiano, Bos, Toure ( carrying injury) and McGree were injured.

I intend to list the salient technical qualities of various WC national teams in the Socceroo stats/analysis thread, and, how they compare to Aus.

Click to expand...

I stated before the WC that we would need luck with injuries if to progress to last 16 or beyond, and we didn't get that. Injuries in the key wingback positions where we had big drop-offs really hurt us. I'm reluctant to include Toure on the injury list since I've seen plenty of speculation that he must have been carrying an injury but no actual confirmation. Have I missed that?

patjennings said:

There are plenty of people saying that we don't have the players no matter who is the manager, if so why bother trying, we may as well just accept our lot in life and declare ourselves World AFL champions.

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Those of us that think that way still have the same desire for better results that you have. The main difference is that you seem to think it's the NT coach that is the problem, when it is actually player development that is the problem. There is an argument that its both, but the solution is better player development first.

patjennings said:

Yes we had injuries - but we had an unbalanced squad that could only play one way. You can go into a one of game like that - not a tournament. If you pick a squad for a tournament that is set up to play one way and so have an unbalanced squad the manager can only look at himself.

Popovic has the job until the Asian Cup. so he is going nowhere.

What I find it incredible that you can't see that there is nothing to learn here. I will be very disappointed if Popovic does not pick a squad for the Asian Cup to show that he has learnt that tournament football, especially for a country like Australia that is not elite, is not about playing one way but being adaptable depending on the opposition and the circumstances. If you limit the chances by picking a squad that is so rigid you only have yourself to blame.

I don't rely care about the salient technical qualities of various WC national teams. I care about selecting a squad that can beat those teams with the right tactics or at the very least negate their advantages and at the same time maximise our advantages. If not we may as well we will never go further than we do and give up and take up following different sports. It's as simple as that. Learn and get better or console yourself with stats.

Wil that help us get further - maybe not - but to pick a squad that can be so hamstrung by injuries because they are really only there to defend without multiple routes to goal is self-defeating. Popovic is a smart guy - I expect he will not make the same mistake come the Asian Cup. Unfortunately he is a stubborn guy as well - so he may.

Click to expand...

With due respect, and you post a lot of posts that add a great deal of quality to the forum, PJ, I think you, and the many others discontented with Popa on G and G, are just wrong. Whilst I agree with you, and others, about a lot of other issues football.

Since the World Cup it seems to have engaged a lot more people off forum with a significant football background in my neck of the woods too. Genrally, they are more realistic about Popa/Roos and expectations, given the cattle we have at their stage of development.

The players not selected by Popa, who posters want on here, often lack experience. This quality is essential for some players in a team to organise others around them. Inexperienced players can only think about their own jobs, not where others need to be positioned around them. Even then against Egypt, only Souttar, Irvine, O'Neill and Behich had sufficient experience to organise players around them, possibly Metcalfe, although Circati has played a lot of high level football for such a young player.

Players like Irank and Toure, can be hotheaded. Ditto Alex Robertson. They need the calming influence of experienced teammates to calm them down from responding rashly to challenges forn opposition defenders, particularly with some of the awful refereeing we saw against Egypt ( incompetent) and USA ( biased) playing Aus.

Even though at this high level WC knock out rounds, IMO Behich ( apart from his consummate game sense), Metcalfe, Hrustic ( in particular), Trewin ( out of position at RWB against high quality opposition), Mabil ( can shoot though), are simply not good enough to beat teams like Turkey, USA, Paraguay and Egypt. Their weaknesses become even more exposed.

The only players Popa had good enough, and experienced enough over age 26 were McGree ( injured), Miller ( injured), Souttar, O'Neill ( a popular G and G scapegoat, whose abilities aren't recognised), possibly Burgess, Ryan ( not selected, because Beach may be better), Geria, Deg, all fit the criteria for both sufficient quality and experience.

I would also add Rowles. That Rowles wasn't selected, who performed well every time he played, exemplifies the relative depth Aus has in defence compared to the Wing Backs/Full Backs , Strikers and Wingers. Rowles is a far better defender, and even defensive Left Wing Back, than Hrustic is an effective forward. Tough Rowles missed out, but all other Roo defenders selected had sufficient qualities.

dr. bellows said:

I stated before the WC that we would need luck with injuries if to progress to last 16 or beyond, and we didn't get that. Injuries in the key wingback positions where we had big drop-offs really hurt us. I'm reluctant to include Toure on the injury list since I've seen plenty of speculation that he must have been carrying an injury but no actual confirmation. Have I missed that?

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I can only conclude Toure was carrying an injury. For mine, after looking at all players very closely through compilation of stats, over the last year he is the current stand out for central striker.

One stat that Aussie Scout posted was that in heading duels at the WC, Irank won a greater percentage of them, than Toure. I like the fact Aussie Scout uses, stats, but this must be some sort of deviation with AI.

Irank has a great leap and may have had more heading duels against one defender, because Toure often competes against multiple defenders, and still wins about half his heading duels, being able to outmuscle his opponents. Toure can hold the ball up too in tight spaces, whilst Irank's tends to have less favourable body shape with his back facing goal.

As most of us reading this would acknowledge, Irank needs a bit of space, with body position facing forwards as he receives, to intimidate them with his fast ball carrying and dribbling and speed over the turf.

Decentric said:

Anyone calling for Popa's head can't have watched a lot of the teams who reached the last 32 and particularly the last 16.

I've calculated top leagues in the world number:

UEFA V Big Five
100 clubs
15 starting players at each
* 1500 players

30ish Big UEFA Clubs not in the EUFA Big Five, who play a lot of Champ League and Europa League
15 starting players at each club
* 450 players

Brazil/Argentina
Circa 40 clubs
15 starting players at each club
*600 players

* Total 2550 players playing elite club football in the world.

How many Aussies?
Circati in Serie A. Since Italy haven't qualified for 3 WCs in succession, how good are the 50% of Italian nationals who play in Serie A?
Ditto Volpato, but he is a sub in Serie A, I think?

Ryan plays in the Spanish top flight.

Bos plays for Feyenoorde - in the Big UEFA 30 outside the Big Five leagues

Irvine starter at St Pauli, with Metcalfe a sub. They've been demoted.

So all Aus has is 4 starters and 2 subs playing at elite club level out of 2550 players globally.

I'd surmise most teams in the last 32 at the 2026 WC, and even in the original 48, had far more players playing at elite club levels than us. To get out of the group stage was pretty good for the Roos.

Our depth at both Wing Back flanks and Striker/Wingers was exposed when Italiano, Bos, Toure ( carrying injury) and McGree were injured.

I intend to list the salient technical qualities of various WC national teams in the Socceroo stats/analysis thread, and, how they compare to Aus.

Click to expand...

Among other things, your argument is superficial. You talk first about whether any of us watched a lot of the last 32 teams in the World Cup (how much of all those teams did you watch?), but then not mention anything else about those teams compared to Australia, eg their playing style or anything else related to the coaching.

Instead you veer off into some simplistic calculation of how many “elite club level” players there are in the world, and how many of them are Aussies, and why that small number of “elite club level” Aussie players meant that we did well to get out of the group at the World Cup. It's a silly argument. Using the same logic I could argue that we definitely should have beaten Egypt as they only have three “elite club level” players.

Mr Cleansheets said:

Fair point.

Mind you, I meant as assistant to learn, not as head coach.

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I don't know how much people learn as an assistant. It's easy enough to learn, but when placed on the top job, people change up quickly because the stakes are higher. I'd be content with seeing him more in the top role at club and how he responds to different situations.

Milligan said the right things after we lost, but actions have to match words

Quicky said:

It's an insulting opening paragraph. Do you mean to be? You always seem to denegrate the opinions of those that disagree with the National Team coach of the day by saying they don't know anything. It's intellectual superiority. You open a discussion like that and I bet you've already lost most of the people you're trying to communicate to. They'll be totally closed to anything you say subsequently even if you have some good points.

I'll ask you this: What do you think we could have done better at the World Cup?

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The initial comment is moronic Quicky no need to even analyse if it is purposefully insulting or not.. Turbo spent years defending a player development system he read on the back of a Corn Flakes packet and now cries foul that said system doesnt work and we dont have the quality of players necessary for a manger (any manager) to get results.

Decentric said:

Anyone calling for Popa's head can't have watched a lot of the teams who reached the last 32 and particularly the last 16.

I've calculated top leagues in the world number:

UEFA V Big Five
100 clubs
15 starting players at each
* 1500 players

30ish Big UEFA Clubs not in the EUFA Big Five, who play a lot of Champ League and Europa League
15 starting players at each club
* 450 players

Brazil/Argentina
Circa 40 clubs
15 starting players at each club
*600 players

* Total 2550 players playing elite club football in the world.

How many Aussies?
Circati in Serie A. Since Italy haven't qualified for 3 WCs in succession, how good are the 50% of Italian nationals who play in Serie A?
Ditto Volpato, but he is a sub in Serie A, I think?

Ryan plays in the Spanish top flight.

Bos plays for Feyenoorde - in the Big UEFA 30 outside the Big Five leagues

Irvine starter at St Pauli, with Metcalfe a sub. They've been demoted.

So all Aus has is 4 starters and 2 subs playing at elite club level out of 2550 players globally.

I'd surmise most teams in the last 32 at the 2026 WC, and even in the original 48, had far more players playing at elite club levels than us. To get out of the group stage was pretty good for the Roos.

Our depth at both Wing Back flanks and Striker/Wingers was exposed when Italiano, Bos, Toure ( carrying injury) and McGree were injured.

I intend to list the salient technical qualities of various WC national teams in the Socceroo stats/analysis thread, and, how they compare to Aus.

Click to expand...

Its a good point you make about the shallow talent pool of players Australia has, and really always has.

TBH I think we over-rate our player quality. If they were as good as we think they are they would be succeeding better leagues

Its an eye-opener speaking to non-Australian as to how they view our players: competitive combative, fast strong, but technically low grade.

Yes there's the odd exception eg Bos, Vopato.

But then look at one current stalwart Behich. Failed in Holland which really is a second tier selling league anyway.and was sold in under a year, He had a decent career in Turkey, but that is behind him yet he's still in the squad because well who other than Bos is a better L full back?