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Poppa Out

LFC said:
I can't believe coach trophies won here in this little closed league outpost stands as big badge of honour WC time.
Maybe harsh from me but its the reality.
Ancelotti has won some very very meaningful trophies globally, now I get that argument and he just got punted out.
As they say every dog has its day, Popa re Turkey.
Arnie had his ones - both play the game based on defence and a whim and prayer - I can just imagine the discussions pre games.
Dig in fellas, compress, close the holes, IF we can break out go for it.
I have never sat watching a game in confidence thinking we got this, let alone feel we're gonna get on the score sheet - how many have ?

All I know I'm sic of the same ol same ol the last 10+yrs......

Where's the D ? I'm waiting to read his wonderful analysis backing up popaball as he has since he took over.
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have to agree LFC
tough comments on the A League but accurate
 
patjennings said:
Look - I'm not calling for any particular manager. I think the Popovic initial appointment and extension were quick short term ill-considered moves by the FA.

As many have said - Football Australia currently does not have a designated Technical Director. So who is making the decisions about how we want to play and who is the appropriate manager to deliver that.
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In a lot of ways, I wish this role was offered to Ange, but he's priced himself out of our league and there's probably too much bad blood between the FA and the big man.

I think in a lot of ways, he is the right person to communicate the sort of footballing nation we want to be and how to piece it together.
 
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riquelmes_laces said:
In a lot of ways, I wish this role was offered to Ange, but he's priced himself out of our league and there's probably too much bad blood between the FA and the big man.

I think in a lot of ways, he is the right person to communicate the sort of footballing nation we want to be and how to piece it together.
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We've got a few of our ex players overseas doing things. Grella is working in Italy as TD I believe. The golden generation have often spoken about this in terms of having a TD and bringing in a clear structure and system. A lot of them got shut out, some are here, but I don't think it's the ones who were pushing this idea.

Ange would have been perfect like you say, but the FA and some in the game have too many issues and drama to do this.
 
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We have Popa for the Asian Cup, and I think it's only fair he has a shot at that. He has reached par, even if I think we should have done better than par.

I think it's the perfect test for him if he can adapt. If he can't and we don't at least make the final, it will be time to move on from him. The big test is, how do we become the dominant team vs Iraq, Saudi and maintain the pragmatism vs Japan? If he can do that, he'll prove that heading into 2030, he may be the man who can adapt and adjust with a squad he has worked with for 6 years.

If it doesn't work, I do think Muscat may be the right man. A positive coach, though with a level of adaptability. For me too, it's important we have an Australian in charge.
 
patjennings said:
It really depends on the quality of your teams. Purely on ALM terms there is no P& R. If your team is one of the best resourced team missing out of the finals is definite failure. Take it back to the Ange Brisbane - Arnie CCM days. Neither were the best resourced though Brisbane were up there. However they both viewed not finishing top 2 as a failure. That also meant more often than not a Grand Final appearance. Same with Arnie at SFC.

If you are a City, SFC, Victory or WSW and now AFC you have been the best resourced you should be targeting top 2 . Not making the top 4 should be considered a failure, not making the finals catastrophic.
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The idea WS would still view not making top 2 as a failure is pretty funny. I take the point though. Even under that standard he holds up. Both MVC and Glory he came in a very low point (WSW he came in from nothing). The turnaround was immediate. 6/10 seasons he contended for the title, 1st x 2, 2nd x 3, 3rd x 1 (maybe never really close in 3rd). 2/10 made finals in 6th, average/below. 2/10 failed seasons, although start of 14/15 was when he won the ACL.

For managers with 100 games he is 5th/23 in PPG (6th if you include Kisnorbo who has 94 games). If he isn't a successful A league manager where do we make the cut off? Below Muscat, or would only Arnie be considered successful. I think it is just easier to admit Popa is successful/earned the chance, but people don't like him.
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This list has 100 games or won the league or GF.

I know you wanted to wait with Rene. Who were you thinking this would open us up for? What would have qualified as a disastrous start, did it have to be 0/6 points for this?
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I thought it was interesting to exclude the two Arnold matches from qualifying. It took a pretty impressive run for us to get into second place from the start we had. FA probably shit the bed prior to the WC and worried he would get some big offer. Really they should have extended to the AC after qualifying. The AC being the year after the WC is bad scheduling. In theory you would run contracts through to the AC, with some clause about qualification for the WC.
 
Cunningstunt said:
The idea WS would still view not making top 2 as a failure is pretty funny. I take the point though. Even under that standard he holds up. Both MVC and Glory he came in a very low point (WSW he came in from nothing). The turnaround was immediate. 6/10 seasons he contended for the title, 1st x 2, 2nd x 3, 3rd x 1 (maybe never really close in 3rd). 2/10 made finals in 6th, average/below. 2/10 failed seasons, although start of 14/15 was when he won the ACL.

For managers with 100 games he is 5th/23 in PPG (6th if you include Kisnorbo who has 94 games). If he isn't a successful A league manager where do we make the cut off? Below Muscat, or would only Arnie be considered successful. I think it is just easier to admit Popa is successful/earned the chance, but people don't like him.
View attachment 8102
This list has 100 games or won the league or GF.

I know you wanted to wait with Rene. Who were you thinking this would open us up for? What would have qualified as a disastrous start, did it have to be 0/6 points for this?
View attachment 8100
I thought it was interesting to exclude the two Arnold matches from qualifying. It took a pretty impressive run for us to get into second place from the start we had. FA probably shit the bed prior to the WC and worried he would get some big offer. Really they should have extended to the AC after qualifying. The AC being the year after the WC is bad scheduling. In theory you would run contracts through to the AC, with some clause about qualification for the WC.
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I gather when you talk about WS you mean Tony Popovic. When I quoted the bar it was the bar that both Ange and Arnold said was the fair test at the time.

As far as Rene is concerned the FA are now justifying the extension of the Popovic before the World Cup by claiming 'continuity'. It is quite a common practice in high performing corporate areas that you allow people to step back and allow them to refresh. I would have expected that this was a perfect example of when to do that in football. The fact that the resignation was taken as a given and not even discussed in my view is poor management.

Who cares if Popovic got a big offer - he could go. The Asian Cup has more often than not been held in the same window. What makes Tony Popovic different to any other manager we ever had whose terms were reviewed after the World Cup,

I never said it was not a disastrous start. In addition my post was in response to someone say we were in danger of not qualifying. I suspect that given Saudi Arabia had a bad run it is more than likely that Arnold would have qualified us in the same round. Then there was a whole other round.

edit - this is the original post below . I was not discounting Popovic Grand Finals appearances - in fact I didn't mention him at all.

Cunningstunt said:
Missing the finals, getting relegated, finishing bottom half etc is a failure. Making the grand final is a good season with a disappointing end.
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It really depends on the quality of your teams. Purely on ALM terms there is no P& R. If your team is one of the best resourced team missing out of the finals is definite failure. Take it back to the Ange Brisbane - Arnie CCM days. Neither were the best resourced though Brisbane were up there. However they both viewed not finishing top 2 as a failure. That also meant more often than not a Grand Final appearance. Same with Arnie at SFC.

If you are a City, SFC, Victory or WSW and now AFC you have been the best resourced you should be targeting top 2 . Not making the top 4 should be considered a failure, not making the finals catastrophic.
 
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JM47 said:
We have Popa for the Asian Cup, and I think it's only fair he has a shot at that. He has reached par, even if I think we should have done better than par.

I think it's the perfect test for him if he can adapt. If he can't and we don't at least make the final, it will be time to move on from him. The big test is, how do we become the dominant team vs Iraq, Saudi and maintain the pragmatism vs Japan? If he can do that, he'll prove that heading into 2030, he may be the man who can adapt and adjust with a squad he has worked with for 6 years.

If it doesn't work, I do think Muscat may be the right man. A positive coach, though with a level of adaptability. For me too, it's important we have an Australian in charge.
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There's truth to what you are saying, and poorer performances at the WC (ie under Ange) didn't end in a sacking. It's a shame that we could be wasting an Asia Cup with someone who may not be able to take us forward, but then again if it's until the end of the tournament then so be it.

One of the KPI's HAS to be a style of play that promotes the best facets of our game. My worry is the FA don't have any technical KPI's because there is no TD at the helm to steer that decision making process.
 
Ramon Tribulietx would be my cheap choice as a long term TD, although I am sure many, possibly better options out there.
 
patjennings said:
Who cares if Popovic got a big offer - he could go. The Asian Cup has more often than not been held in the same window. What makes Tony Popovic different to any other manager we ever had whose terms were reviewed after the World Cup,
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Nothing, but I've myself believed for a while that our cycle ends at the Asian Cup (although my opinion will change on that if they move the Asian Cup back a year as is expected). Lets look at what's happened in the past. For our first Asian Cup Hiddink's contract expired and he was also coaching a club side at the time that allowed him to do international football part time for the 2006 world cup. We were looking at a full time international coach but probably couldn't afford one for 4 years so we got Arnie well before he was ready to coach at that level. We signed Dick Advocaat but he withdrew so we got Pim instead. Pim had already taken a job with Morocco's youth system (seems he had a bit of an imapact on them) so we went for a new coach and Holger got the job. Ange took on the job for the World Cup in 2014 late and from memory (which may be suffering from age issues) I think we gave him the contract for the World and Asian Cups then extended him after that. He quit before the 2018 WC and Bert was only ever a short term fill in. The FFA wanted Arnie but either couldn't or wouldn't buy out his Sydney FC contract so he took over after that. I think after the 2022 WC we gave him a new 4 year contract so he was the first who had a review after a World Cup and was given another contract. Others had already left or were signed for both tournaments. Your post implied Popovic got some special treatment, I don't think he did.
 
Alex M said:
Nothing, but I've myself believed for a while that our cycle ends at the Asian Cup (although my opinion will change on that if they move the Asian Cup back a year as is expected). Lets look at what's happened in the past. For our first Asian Cup Hiddink's contract expired and he was also coaching a club side at the time that allowed him to do international football part time for the 2006 world cup. We were looking at a full time international coach but probably couldn't afford one for 4 years so we got Arnie well before he was ready to coach at that level. We signed Dick Advocaat but he withdrew so we got Pim instead. Pim had already taken a job with Morocco's youth system (seems he had a bit of an imapact on them) so we went for a new coach and Holger got the job. Ange took on the job for the World Cup in 2014 late and from memory (which may be suffering from age issues) I think we gave him the contract for the World and Asian Cups then extended him after that. He quit before the 2018 WC and Bert was only ever a short term fill in. The FFA wanted Arnie but either couldn't or wouldn't buy out his Sydney FC contract so he took over after that. I think after the 2022 WC we gave him a new 4 year contract so he was the first who had a review after a World Cup and was given another contract. Others had already left or were signed for both tournaments. Your post implied Popovic got some special treatment, I don't think he did.
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You are correct - in some ways but Ange was signed for five years in October 2013 which meant it concluded at the end of the 2018 World Cup - but he had already resigned.
 
Wasn't Popa available because he was a free agent after he left the Melb Victory post? Alot different when you have to compensate a club or federation for a coach imo.
 
patjennings said:
You are correct - in some ways but Ange was signed for five years in October 2013 which meant it concluded at the end of the 2018 World Cup - but he had already resigned.
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Thats why I clarified that with a proviso that my memory may be faulty on that one. I remembered that he was more than just a 2018 WC fill in but couldn't remember for how long.
 
ATTACKING PHILOSOPHY OR DEFENSIVE PHILOSOPHY.
Fucking leaning to heavily on either one is a recipe for disaster.
Cut this shit out , we don't have highly techincal players so why the fuck would we lean so heavily on tika taka style bullshit.
We need to be able to attack when we need it , or just attack in general would be fucking nice !
 
highkick05 said:
ATTACKING PHILOSOPHY OR DEFENSIVE PHILOSOPHY.
Fucking leaning to heavily on either one is a recipe for disaster.
Cut this shit out , we don't have highly techincal players so why the fuck would we lean so heavily on tika taka style bullshit.
We need to be able to attack when we need it , or just attack in general would be fucking nice !
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That is point - forget the managers and their styles. How do we consistently produce better technical players is the real question, then you play the way needed for the game.
 
highkick05 said:
ATTACKING PHILOSOPHY OR DEFENSIVE PHILOSOPHY.
Fucking leaning to heavily on either one is a recipe for disaster.
Cut this shit out , we don't have highly techincal players so why the fuck would we lean so heavily on tika taka style bullshit.
We need to be able to attack when we need it , or just attack in general would be fucking nice !
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dont think anyone is expressing tika taka for obviously we are no where to that level - people just wish to see some kind of attacking intent instead of relying on pressure release valve counters.
You keep sitting back forever your own gates break open more than not and just get over the finish line.
 
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